Initial boundary options for Crown/Damascus study

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The irony that a few decades ago Ritchie Park families went BALLISTIC when they were moved from Wootton to Richard Montgomery because they were almost all walkers and then were bussed instead.

But the board is like hmmm, let’s move Wayside to Wootton and not even consider Ritchie Park right up the street and convert them back to walkers, tells you everything you need to know about how f’d up this entire thing is.

+1

I am shocked how many of these plans have walkers less than 1/2 mile (way less than the 2 mile) getting bused to other high schools.

I honestly thought they were going to clean up a lot of congestion and all of these plans make it worse for almost every high school.

The biggest shock is that 2 of the 4 options keep the Rio area bused all the way to Wootton instead of walking across Fields to attend Crown HS. Dumbest thing I’ve seen.

While I'm not a big fan of split articulation, I do see the argument for moving the Fallsmead triangle since they can walk to Crown. What worries me is that if they move the Fallsmead triangle to Crown, that could mean they are choosing one of their pro-split articulation options (options 2 and 4) that also involve things like breaking up Lakewood to send a small group to Crown that most definitely cannot walk there. I'm wondering how much they see these options as grouped together such that making one change will imply others, particularly for schools currently in the same cluster like Fallsmead and Lakewood.

I think the reason they are sending that small Lakewood group to Crown along with the Fallsmead triangle in those pro-split articulation options is because they *do* think the Lakewood group is walking distance to Crown. Despite it being a 45 minute walk along busy/dangerous roads. It's insanity!!!

Nobody will let their kids walk 45 min each way on high way 28 everyday. BOE needs to withdraw these asinine options.

Right. Designating this Lakewood neighborhood as walking distance to Crown is effectively just taking bus service away from the neighborhood and forcing the parents to figure out driving options. Because walking is not viable. And of course this will just increase any traffic/congestion issues.

The boundary study won't actually determine which neighborhoods get bus service to Crown. That'll come later when transportation does an analysis.

If they aren’t expecting to save on buses due to false perceptions of what’s walkable, it’s extra confusing why they are messing with that Lakewood neighborhood. Do those few kids have a big impact on demographics?

It feels like MCPS and BOE are unfairly targeting the Wootton district—almost as if there’s a deliberate effort to disrupt our community. None of the options offers any benefit in any school demographics, but they just want some Wootton neighborhoods to be split out for the sake of change and pay the price for their agenda.

This is what is happening with *every* cluster. No cluster is being left alone - they are all being shifted and moved around. Wootton is not different. And again, there is a new school being built and Wootton is one of the closest clusters to it - where do you expect the children to come from to populate a new school?

Wootton is under capacity and the reason to build crown is because RM QO Gaithersburg are overcrowded. Guess what? they are not that overcrowded and can’t fill a brand new high school. Now Wootton is the victim for this political exercise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Travilah and dufief should go to QO and Kentlands should go to Crown with all the other City of Gaithersburg schools.

That is very logical. North Potomac, Travilah, and Darnestown go to Ridgeview / QO. The City of Gaithersburg schools go to Lakelands / Crown. Falls Grove and Ritchie Park to Wooton.

I have said this for a long time, before any boundary discussion. It is the most elegant contiguous solution. Of course people have their preferences based on past experience but none of that matters in these discussions. Now Kentlands leaving is a new topic of course with Crown, but agree with City boundaries being logical here, and having enough students to fill Crown in one swath.

Yup. Same reason why Fallsgrove and Ritchie Park should go to Wootton and all of King Farm to RM.

RM parent here and I would totally support that. Lets be real, "unofficially" most of King Farm goes to RM, even the Gaithersburg HS part. So tired of RPES parents whining about Wootton. I get it, you want to go to W school and not RM.

Nah. I'm in the RPES cluster, and a lot of parents here would rather stay at RM than go to Wootton. I'm the PP who has stated repeatedly that MCPS is not going to move RPES to Wootton. And I'm fine with that.

RM Main Street is really nice. They did a great job. Kids love having open lunch. My kids enjoy/ed their time at RM. Many years ago when we moved here, we looked at homes from N. Potomac down to Kensington (I think we looked at over 40 homes). We could afford homes in Potomac. We chose the RM cluster for a reason.

Wootton is also falling apart (shame on MCPS).

I am the PP you are responding to. We were in the same boat. Chose RM over W/Potomac schools and I am actually happy we did.

Ok simmer down lol. If RM didn’t have the IB program it would be a trash. It brought in RPES to make it better and home equity is 70-100K less in many SFH neighborhoods. So then added IB. Then they added Fallsgrove. But the school can’t hide its core issues

Why don’t you simmer down? Wootton is the most irrelevant W school that everyone forgets exists. Parents from Churchill are revolting against their kids attending Wootton. It has an ugly building, is located in a terrible town/zip-code, and is all the way out in the middle of nowhere. If the plastics were W schools, Wootton would Gretchen Wieners. Wootton is truly the worst. Too poor/low income to be a real W and exists in the shadows of Whitman and Churchill, and too rich to be interesting enough to have scandalous incidents and fights.

That's brutal, PP. But, I do think Wootton is boring, except for the bomb threat recently, and with terrible facilities.

Academic and boring? Sign me up!! I hope my kids go there

If I wanted “exciting” I’d pick BCC, RM or Gaithersburg.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

I agree ES should be changed. I’m one of the closest Wayside to Churchill and the difference is more like 10-15 mins in rush hour one way.

Additionally Wootton is in horrible shape being 55 years old. Renovations should have been approved as early as 2008 for 2018 completion but it’s been delayed since then at least until 2032-2033. That’s insane! Crown should be used by Wootton or Magruder for a full renovation. The crowding at all of these schools is nothing compared to that of WJ and I think Wheaton/blair

I agree that Crown should be used as a holding school for Wootton. implode it and build it up 3 levels, less ground space and get more parking and athletic fields. THEN redistrict.

[Anonymous]

I may be misreading this but it looks like Wootton either doesn’t change or get smaller. Is that right?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just hope they don't redistrict QO with any striver schools. Purposely avoided buying in Wootton and Walter Johnson because of all the tiger moms and academic culture. Football, D1 sports, and parents who like to hang out at the beach and tanning salons for fun is the vibe. I think everyone chose their school and neighborhood because it matched their vibe, and they should be allowed to say.

While I agree that we bought where we did because of these factors and don't want to change that, if it ultimately MAKES SENSE to change, then it needs to. The problem is that these options operate under the improper constraint that ES boundaries cannot change.

Yes and as a result this process is like trying to solve one of those puzzles where when you put a piece in another pops out elsewhere. Some ES are wacky and large. In Wootton, Churchill, RM alone the following elementary schools should be redrawn. These are all significantly under capacity.

- Potomac
- Wayside
- Coldspring
- Beverly Farms
- Seven Locks (weird Avenel island)
- Travilah

I remember when they were doing redistricting for the new Rustin ES and for years Ritchie Park was severely overcrowded with 6 portables. And so were many other RM ES and Cold Spring was a possible closure for severe under-enrollment. Someone brought up why are you looking to move Horizon Hill (the neighborhood behind Wootton and walkable to Cold Spring, to Rustin in one plan?!? Further than both Ritchie and Cold.

Like why is RP sitting a few hundred over capacity and a school closer and walkable a few hundred under capacity. And the first thought is let’s bus them further away to a new ES.

These boundary maps have always been insane and with no common sense.

[Anonymous]

I’m a Wayside parent who is unhappy with the changes.

Wootton is a great school, but it’s an extra 20 minutes away from our house. Falls Road is already super congested, especially during rush hour.

My kids can walk and bike to Churchill, but definitely can’t to Wootton.

Hoover and Churchill are right next to each other. They literally share a field. It makes no sense to break Hoover up.

Under all four scenarios, I will have kids in middle school at Hoover and high school at Wooton at the same time. Coordinating pick ups from after school school programs is going to get harder, and will add to traffic on Falls Road.

And it sad that my kids will make a bunch of friends at Hoover and then have to leave them behind.

I have neighbors whose siblings are going to get split up. They’ll be waiting for different buses to take them to different schools in the mornings.

I know these aren’t huge problems in the grand scheme of things, but it’s a really disruptive change and doesn’t make geographic sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows the only reason RPES goes to RM is to help RM’s FARMS numbers. It’s reverse discrimination in the name of “equity”

Oh just stop move to Arkansas where your daughters can marry an old white dude by age 10 or Missouri or Alabama or Idaho with its new maternity homes popping up

dp.. what ^PP stated is true. I stated the same thing, and this is the reason why MCPS will not move RPES out of RM.

It is the sole reason why RPES was moved to RMHS many decades ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1987/06/05/busing-ruling-saddens-ritchie-park-parents/cc3b67e6-b596-4247-ba3d-b4c076d37de8/

Ironically, around that same year, they closed Woodward HS.

My parents were original owners and most families ended up paying for private school (that is where we went) and also losing equity in their homes. Lose lose. They had protests, walk-outs, etc.. How can you move neighborhoods that walk and back up directly to the high school, get bused and cross over 270. But RM was under enrolled and had high FARMS and it was a done deal.

No neighborhoods near my parents went to RM. it was all Wootton or Churchill west side of 270 except Potomac Woods and Horizon Hill which ended up being loner neighborhoods mashed between Churchill and Wootton neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

I agree ES should be changed. I’m one of the closest Wayside to Churchill and the difference is more like 10-15 mins in rush hour one way.

Additionally Wootton is in horrible shape being 55 years old. Renovations should have been approved as early as 2008 for 2018 completion but it’s been delayed since then at least until 2032-2033. That’s insane! Crown should be used by Wootton or Magruder for a full renovation. The crowding at all of these schools is nothing compared to that of WJ and I think Wheaton/blair

I agree that Crown should be used as a holding school for Wootton. implode it and build it up 3 levels, less ground space and get more parking and athletic fields. THEN redistrict.

+1

[Anonymous]

It’s funny because the Churchill special ed staff is utterly incompetent. Look at all the MSDE complaints. It’s laughable for any parent to claim that…

[Anonymous]

Cold Spring ES has a capacity of 460. It has a total enrollment of only 350. Worse, because it is a CES location, something like 100 of those students are out of the boundary area. So only about 250 students even come from the boundary itself. That means parents with elementary-school-age children are not buying there. When they do get older and go to Cabin John, they stay with the kids from Stone Mill ES at least when they then move on to Wootton. So it seems that there is trouble selling in this neighborhood for the elementary school at least, though many factors play into that. At least they have had a little bit of a cohort that stays together through high school.

Cold Spring here. Most of our neighborhood are original owners or those who bought in the 80s/90s. Interest rates almost certainly locking owners in. Anticipate it’ll turn over in the next 5 yrs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The irony that a few decades ago Ritchie Park families went BALLISTIC when they were moved from Wootton to Richard Montgomery because they were almost all walkers and then were bussed instead.

But the board is like hmmm, let’s move Wayside to Wootton and not even consider Ritchie Park right up the street and convert them back to walkers, tells you everything you need to know about how f’d up this entire thing is.

+1

I am shocked how many of these plans have walkers less than 1/2 mile (way less than the 2 mile) getting bused to other high schools.

I honestly thought they were going to clean up a lot of congestion and all of these plans make it worse for almost every high school.

The biggest shock is that 2 of the 4 options keep the Rio area bused all the way to Wootton instead of walking across Fields to attend Crown HS. Dumbest thing I’ve seen.

While I'm not a big fan of split articulation, I do see the argument for moving the Fallsmead triangle since they can walk to Crown. What worries me is that if they move the Fallsmead triangle to Crown, that could mean they are choosing one of their pro-split articulation options (options 2 and 4) that also involve things like breaking up Lakewood to send a small group to Crown that most definitely cannot walk there. I'm wondering how much they see these options as grouped together such that making one change will imply others, particularly for schools currently in the same cluster like Fallsmead and Lakewood.

I think the reason they are sending that small Lakewood group to Crown along with the Fallsmead triangle in those pro-split articulation options is because they *do* think the Lakewood group is walking distance to Crown. Despite it being a 45 minute walk along busy/dangerous roads. It's insanity!!!

Nobody will let their kids walk 45 min each way on high way 28 everyday. BOE needs to withdraw these asinine options.

Right. Designating this Lakewood neighborhood as walking distance to Crown is effectively just taking bus service away from the neighborhood and forcing the parents to figure out driving options. Because walking is not viable. And of course this will just increase any traffic/congestion issues.

The boundary study won't actually determine which neighborhoods get bus service to Crown. That'll come later when transportation does an analysis.

If they aren’t expecting to save on buses due to false perceptions of what’s walkable, it’s extra confusing why they are messing with that Lakewood neighborhood. Do those few kids have a big impact on demographics?

It feels like MCPS and BOE are unfairly targeting the Wootton district—almost as if there’s a deliberate effort to disrupt our community. None of the options offers any benefit in any school demographics, but they just want some Wootton neighborhoods to be split out for the sake of change and pay the price for their agenda.

This is what is happening with *every* cluster. No cluster is being left alone - they are all being shifted and moved around. Wootton is not different. And again, there is a new school being built and Wootton is one of the closest clusters to it - where do you expect the children to come from to populate a new school?

Wootton is under capacity and the reason to build crown is because RM QO Gaithersburg are overcrowded. Guess what? they are not that overcrowded and can’t fill a brand new high school. Now Wootton is the victim for this political exercise.

💯 could have used the $250M or whatever to redo Wootton or do an addition to 5-10 schools or a combo of that plus rebuild some old ES. Keeps taxpayers happy and solves any overcrowding problems. Adding more new schools is an inefficient use of taxpayer dollars given the high schools are mostly 1750-2250 in size.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

I agree ES should be changed. I’m one of the closest Wayside to Churchill and the difference is more like 10-15 mins in rush hour one way.

Additionally Wootton is in horrible shape being 55 years old. Renovations should have been approved as early as 2008 for 2018 completion but it’s been delayed since then at least until 2032-2033. That’s insane! Crown should be used by Wootton or Magruder for a full renovation. The crowding at all of these schools is nothing compared to that of WJ and I think Wheaton/blair

I agree that Crown should be used as a holding school for Wootton. implode it and build it up 3 levels, less ground space and get more parking and athletic fields. THEN redistrict.

PP here, yup should absolutely use it as holding school for all the overdue high school projects (Wootton, Magruder, QO) overbuild each for future capacity.

[Anonymous]

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Cold Spring ES has a capacity of 460. It has a total enrollment of only 350. Worse, because it is a CES location, something like 100 of those students are out of the boundary area. So only about 250 students even come from the boundary itself. That means parents with elementary-school-age children are not buying there. When they do get older and go to Cabin John, they stay with the kids from Stone Mill ES at least when they then move on to Wootton. So it seems that there is trouble selling in this neighborhood for the elementary school at least, though many factors play into that. At least they have had a little bit of a cohort that stays together through high school.

Cold Spring here. Most of our neighborhood are original owners or those who bought in the 80s/90s. Interest rates almost certainly locking owners in. Anticipate it’ll turn over in the next 5 yrs.

It’s crazy how Cold Spring has fared. Had a ton of friends there when I went CJMS then to Churchill and they went to Wootton. Given 250-350 seats of capacity at Wayside and Beverly Farms, feels like Cold Spring should go to Wayside and shift some Wayside kids to Beverly Farms and not worry about rebuilding that school now until if and when it’s needed

[Anonymous]

I just bought a new build in the Wootton cluster getting redistricted to crown. How f'ed is my property value going to be in 10 years?

[Anonymous]

I thought there maybe new 500 families coming in to zone to Crown HS in future years if approved. What do you all think?

https://mocoshow.com/2025/05/29/new-proposal-would-bring-500-residential-units-43k-sf-of-retail-across-four-buildings-to-rio-in-gaithersburg/