Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

Show me where OP said they did that. I'll wait. It'll take you awhile to go through all 40 pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

+1, and I think that's one reason this conversation devolved so quickly, because some of the behaviors that can turn a normal friend gathering into a clique are hard to describe. Like OP said the women looked "uber awkward." I think a lot of people just wrote this off as something OP imagined, and that is possible. But I can also think of situations I've been in where no one *said* anything clique-y or exclusionary, but you could tell from the looks people gave each other or the way they stopped conversation when someone walked up that they were excluding.

If you've ever read about relational aggression in kids, you'll get this. It's not overt bullying or teasing, and no one is going to say "you can't come play with us." It's subtle and often takes the form of passive aggression or seemingly innocent behavior with a bite. There are definitely adults who engage in it too. But the whole point of this behavior is that it offers plausible deniability. People who do this stuff arrange it so they can always say "what? I was perfectly nice to Larla when we saw her at the winery. I think she imagined these 'looks' she think she saw."

Not saying that's what happened (I have no idea) but that's why relational aggression is so frustrating -- you know you are being treated poorly but can't really explain why without looking over-sensitive or delusional, because the poor treatment is designed to give the other person an easy out.

I don't buy OP's description of how the other women felt because of the other stuff she has posted. You can feel free to believe her. But I don't think OP showed one iota of evidence that these women were rude to her in any way whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

She said in the OP itself that they were all women from her kids' school, so from the start it was clear these were people she knew on some level. She only clarified the level of friendship of various people because people jumped all over her and accused her of thinking she should be invited to every random gathering of women even if she didn't know them at all.

People keep saying "so any group of women is a clique!?" even though OP has always said that these were women she knew (obviously... how would she even have recognized the group if she didn't know them? obviously she knows them).

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

OP here--I assure you this "You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?” didn't happen....just lots of uncomfortable looks given to me.

To the other posters, I have friends from different walks of life and most of them are not from my kids' elementary school. There are a quite few moms from the school I am friendly with...and ,yes, they show up for the events I am hosting if invited and available. I also invite all of the children from my kids' classes to their Birthday parties through the school and parent contact list, but I am not upset if some of them don't show up. People have plans, so totally ok. Some parents do not, they really like to control the narrative and some kids are always excluded (one special needs boy in particular), which is sad.

As far as for the Monday bus stop interactions (per everyone request), one kid stopped riding the bus this week (his mom drives him to school every day)...which is unusual. I have not seen the other mom, as we have two stops in our neighborhood. Might see her this week, if bus is running late and I need to get my kids earlier to get them somewhere.

I was just really surprised by bashing instead of sharing stories. I did enjoy reading stories shared by other moms.

Do you really have so much time on your hands that now you're manufacturing in your head all the "unusual" reasons why some kid hasn't ridden the bus to school the last couple of days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

She said in the OP itself that they were all women from her kids' school, so from the start it was clear these were people she knew on some level. She only clarified the level of friendship of various people because people jumped all over her and accused her of thinking she should be invited to every random gathering of women even if she didn't know them at all.

People keep saying "so any group of women is a clique!?" even though OP has always said that these were women she knew (obviously... how would she even have recognized the group if she didn't know them? obviously she knows them).

+1

Have you ever been out with a group of women from your kids' school but not invited the whole school? If so, then you are part of a clique. Those are the new rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

She said in the OP itself that they were all women from her kids' school, so from the start it was clear these were people she knew on some level. She only clarified the level of friendship of various people because people jumped all over her and accused her of thinking she should be invited to every random gathering of women even if she didn't know them at all.

People keep saying "so any group of women is a clique!?" even though OP has always said that these were women she knew (obviously... how would she even have recognized the group if she didn't know them? obviously she knows them).

You know all the moms of all the kids in in all your kids' classes? I have twins and no other kids and they are in fourth grade and have been at the same school for years. I don't even know all the moms of all the fourth graders at our school (around 80-85 kids total) and I've been a room mom and gone on field trips (and before you decide that I'm a mean girl, I work full-time and don't schedule things for when I know people can't make it, don't not let people volunteer, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

Not any of the PPs to which you are replying, but it's funny to me that you don't see that you're the one tying yourself into knots. No one is defending mom cliques. People are saying that it's ok for a group of people to get together once without inviting every single person they've ever met. This is not a group of 15 that are in OP's circle that she is being excluded from. She doesn't even know most of the people who were there. Who in their right mind would be upset about not being invited to something like that?

Nope. No knots. There are some reasonable posts on here but even Jeff noted how people attacked the OP, esp. early on in the thread. I'm not arguing about OP's specific situation but rather the reactions to her post. Just fascinated in a sad way at how DCUM posters always always assume the worst about the OP and just make stuff up to justify tearing an OP down. It happens all the time on here. This thread was no different. Stop pretending it isn't.

You do realize that the majority of the posts on here are in response to things other posters have said, right? You do understand how a forum like this works?

Yes, of course. What don't you understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

Careful, your hyperbole is showing.

Most posters actually said that OP shouldn't be upset. A few said she was a peach (after her rude follow up post) and some have called her needy or whatever, but the majority of the people who disagree with your assessment of the situation didn't call OP names, they just said she wouldn't worry about this and it's ok.

You are the one twisting everything to fit some sort of narrative about a cabal of mean girls on DCUM and it's bizarre.

I don't think you understand what hyperbole means. Even Jeff commented on the attacks on OP. It's not bizarre, it's run-of-the-mill DCUM. Are you new?

[Anonymous]

I want to hear more about the neighborhood cliques. Can someone post some links to past threads on it? There is a neighborhood clique in my neighborhood where 7-8 families who all live on the same block and all have kids at the same school get together frequently. I'm wondering what issues exist. (FWIW I am not part of this clique as I live on a different block and we're not included/invited )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

Careful, your hyperbole is showing.

Most posters actually said that OP shouldn't be upset. A few said she was a peach (after her rude follow up post) and some have called her needy or whatever, but the majority of the people who disagree with your assessment of the situation didn't call OP names, they just said she wouldn't worry about this and it's ok.

You are the one twisting everything to fit some sort of narrative about a cabal of mean girls on DCUM and it's bizarre.

I don't think you understand what hyperbole means. Even Jeff commented on the attacks on OP. It's not bizarre, it's run-of-the-mill DCUM. Are you new?

Jeff is what a 50 something man? I wouldn't really expect him to understand how women operate or to pick up on the misogyny in OPs post that so many found off putting.

[Anonymous]

I guess I've been on both sides of this (but never intentionally left anyone out), both my stories about school pick up drama

I have been left out of a neighborhood moms clique...we moved in 2.5 years ago and have kids the same ages/in the same classes at school and the kids are friends but somehow the adults just don't want to get to know me and my husband I guess. When we moved in, I feel like we were very friendly toward them, went over and introduced ourselves on a nice day when they were all outside casually chatting while kids played and they just...looked at us like "why are you talking to us?" It was so awkward. And it's been awkward since though I have still tried to make an effort to be friendly. I will say hi to the moms at school pick up and they will literally stare at me and say nothing back. It is super weird. They are definitely a clique and they definitely don't like me for some reason. I think we are good neighbors: we keep our yard and house looking nice, don't park in their area, aren't loud, don't have a dog/pet, our kids are well behaved, etc.

Then one time when my youngest was in kindergarten I was volunteering at school and overheard another kindergarten mom telling someone about how "all the girl moms from Ms. Smith's class" stand around in a circle at pick up and don't include her or welcome her to the group. I had honestly never noticed this person before, didn't know that she even had a kid in my kid's class because she wasn't at pick up often as she worked but I felt really bad about it and made an effort to include her after that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

Careful, your hyperbole is showing.

Most posters actually said that OP shouldn't be upset. A few said she was a peach (after her rude follow up post) and some have called her needy or whatever, but the majority of the people who disagree with your assessment of the situation didn't call OP names, they just said she wouldn't worry about this and it's ok.

You are the one twisting everything to fit some sort of narrative about a cabal of mean girls on DCUM and it's bizarre.

I don't think you understand what hyperbole means. Even Jeff commented on the attacks on OP. It's not bizarre, it's run-of-the-mill DCUM. Are you new?

+1

[Anonymous]

I think Covid caused some cliques to accidentally form. There is a group of families at our school (all with kids in my kid's class, so I interact with them a fair bit) who created pod during Covid. They hired a teacher and their kids went to school together on a rotation among their houses, as they all live on the same block of a pretty dense neighborhood.

I don't think they meant to become exclusive, but Covid forced a kind of exclusivity, and you can still see it now several years later. One of the kids in that group became good friends with my child over the last year (1st grade) -- they were pretty inseparable both at school and aftercare. They'd run up to me at pick up and ask for a playdate. I tried to set one up several times with the mom but she kept saying they had a conflict. She never offered to host the playdate. Then the kid had a birthday party and it was just family's from that pod (even though it's four years later!) and my kid was not invited. To me it is just sad. I feel bad for my kid but also her kid, because I don't think they should be limited to the friends from their Covid pod for the rest of elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Covid caused some cliques to accidentally form. There is a group of families at our school (all with kids in my kid's class, so I interact with them a fair bit) who created pod during Covid. They hired a teacher and their kids went to school together on a rotation among their houses, as they all live on the same block of a pretty dense neighborhood.

I don't think they meant to become exclusive, but Covid forced a kind of exclusivity, and you can still see it now several years later. One of the kids in that group became good friends with my child over the last year (1st grade) -- they were pretty inseparable both at school and aftercare. They'd run up to me at pick up and ask for a playdate. I tried to set one up several times with the mom but she kept saying they had a conflict. She never offered to host the playdate. Then the kid had a birthday party and it was just family's from that pod (even though it's four years later!) and my kid was not invited. To me it is just sad. I feel bad for my kid but also her kid, because I don't think they should be limited to the friends from their Covid pod for the rest of elementary school.

Yes, I agree w/ this.

And I also have experienced what you describe about parents not supporting a friendship between kids even though the kids are clearly friends/want to be closer. My kid is in 1st and has a girl in her class she has repeatedly asked for a play date with so I have tried to arrange a play date 3 times with the mom and every time she mentioned a conflict they had but never offered to any alternative or said anything to indicate she'd be interested in a future play date (if someone asks me for a play date w/ my kid and we can't do it I'll say "we can't do it that day but we'd love to get the kids together soon!" and then I'll offer some alternative dates/times we could get together and/or offer to host their kid--because I want to encourage the friendship!) I got the message. I will not keep inviting this kid but I feel so bad for my kid and hers like you said! They clearly like each other a lot and want to hang out outside of school.

[Anonymous]

That's not a clique.

That's just friends getting together for a drink