Dr. Duran must go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

If you aren’t a child’s parent or doctor then MYOFB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

Yes and no. Any student can go to a school counselor on their own initiative. haven't you received the standard emails announcing "counselors will be available" after every benign incident? I don't know the governing laws after that, however.

[Anonymous]

Not all kids have supportive parents and/or the ability to see a mental health professional. Social transition doesn't need a gatekeeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

Yes and no. Any student can go to a school counselor on their own initiative. haven't you received the standard emails announcing "counselors will be available" after every benign incident? I don't know the governing laws after that, however.

I meant a mental health professional specialized in gender dysphoria. Not a school counselor. Of course they can go to a school counselor. That’s different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids have supportive parents and/or the ability to see a mental health professional. Social transition doesn't need a gatekeeper.

That’s not for you to decide. It’s for the child’s parents. If you suspect abuse you can report the parents to CPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

If you aren’t a child’s parent or doctor then MYOFB.

PP you are responding to here. Yes exactly. I do want to mind my own business unless it’s my own child. That’s why I believe when it comes to my own child being socially transitioned by the school, I should know. Parents have the right to know about their own children, not other people’s children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

Yes and no. Any student can go to a school counselor on their own initiative. haven't you received the standard emails announcing "counselors will be available" after every benign incident? I don't know the governing laws after that, however.

I meant a mental health professional specialized in gender dysphoria. Not a school counselor. Of course they can go to a school counselor. That’s different.

School counseling departments include psychologists. Nevertheless, is your point that "transitioning behavior" such as pronouns and name changes should ONLY be done as part of outside professional mental health treatment, therefore not "facilitated" or "supported" by anyone in the school without parents providing documentation that their child is engaging in those behaviors under the guidance of a mental health professional? (I'm just asking how your comments fit into the proposed guidelines discussion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids have supportive parents and/or the ability to see a mental health professional. Social transition doesn't need a gatekeeper.

That’s not for you to decide. It’s for the child’s parents. If you suspect abuse you can report the parents to CPS.

If a kid doesn't have supportive parents, they can still socially transition if that's what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

If you aren’t a child’s parent or doctor then MYOFB.

PP you are responding to here. Yes exactly. I do want to mind my own business unless it’s my own child. That’s why I believe when it comes to my own child being socially transitioned by the school, I should know. Parents have the right to know about their own children, not other people’s children.

Except if your kid doesn't feel comfortable telling you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

Yes and no. Any student can go to a school counselor on their own initiative. haven't you received the standard emails announcing "counselors will be available" after every benign incident? I don't know the governing laws after that, however.

I meant a mental health professional specialized in gender dysphoria. Not a school counselor. Of course they can go to a school counselor. That’s different.

School counseling departments include psychologists. Nevertheless, is your point that "transitioning behavior" such as pronouns and name changes should ONLY be done as part of outside professional mental health treatment, therefore not "facilitated" or "supported" by anyone in the school without parents providing documentation that their child is engaging in those behaviors under the guidance of a mental health professional? (I'm just asking how your comments fit into the proposed guidelines discussion).

Not exactly. I wouldn’t go that far. That’s my personal belief. For the purposes of the guidance, I would say that transitioning behavior such as pronouns and name changes should not be facilitated by anyone in the school without the express permission of the parents of the child. But I personally that if a child is questioning their gender, social transition isn’t benign or neutral and may have medical consequences. So it’s best to do it under the guidance of a mental health professional specializing in gender dysphoria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

You will be very happy to hear that this is how the majority of transitions are accomplished. Except, of course, where the child in question has bad parents who are incapable of attending to their needs. Ideally there wouldn’t be bad parents, but there are, and so school needs to be a safe place for them for their own health and safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids have supportive parents and/or the ability to see a mental health professional. Social transition doesn't need a gatekeeper.

That’s not for you to decide. It’s for the child’s parents. If you suspect abuse you can report the parents to CPS.

If a kid doesn't have supportive parents, they can still socially transition if that's what they want.

But that’s not up to you. A parent is primarily responsible for the welfare of their child. That’s a foundational principle that societies are built on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new policies do not infringe in anyone’s civil rights.

You may have heard of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment?

Wow. People should really take a civics class. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is not part of the quality protection clause. It is from the Declaration of Independence.

PP: I wasn’t saying the EPC was part of the Declaration. I posted that reference to the EPC as a rebuttal to the idea that these policies do not violate civil rights. I wasn’t the one who posted about the Declaration bc obviously that’s not going to be the basis for a cause of action, but the EPC certainly could be.

Why don’t you test that out in federal court and see what they say. I believe Arlington falls under the Eastern District of Virginia which isn’t known for its liberal leanings. But it’s ok you can then appeal to the 4th Circuit, which again is not known to be particularly liberal. But it’s ok you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. I’m sure you will get the decision you are seeking 😂😂.

All I’m saying here is arguing that this is a violation of the equal protection court is probably not the best strategy - it’s not something you want to test out.

Well the APS lawyers apparently disagree with you.

That’s great. They should take it all the way to the Supreme Court. APS taking this to federal court is what any of us critical of APS’ policy would dream of. Can’t wait to see what happens! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s gross to see you rooting against trans kids civil rights. But I don’t think APS has to do anything right now. They said they are sticking with their current policies which are pro trans rights. We will see if the right wing nutters (maybe you?) bring a legal challenge. Your move nutters.

Why would I bring a challenge? I don’t care that much. I just think it’s hilarious that people who are pro-trans seem to think Youngkin’s policy is a violation of some federal law, a child’s civil rights or the constitution. I am saying that if you believe that is true, bring a case in federal court. Make the legal argument. There is none.

PP here. Also given the title of the thread, wanted to throw in my two cents and say I like Dr Durán. I don’t want to see him go. I think APS’ policy is misguided and Youngkin’s policy goes too far. But parents should know if their child is trans - that is the part I agree with. I like what dr Durán did with the English curriculum and how he cares about improving the writing curriculum. It’s a vast improvement over what we had before. I kept my kids home during Covid even after schools opened in March. They wore masks the entire year after. They only stopped wearing masks this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand but people don’t fit into boxes. I am not right wing. I’m anti trump. Pro vax. Believe in Medicare for all, free college, unions, and a host of progressive causes. I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s regulatory positions and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Biden in the elections. Yet at the same time I believe that the trans rights movement is misguided and dangerous and the medical establishment in the US has been ideologically captured. The medical establishment in the UK and Europe were the same way but thankfully realized their mistake and are moving to a different direction. The difference is that Europeans have government healthcare (of different types). But what that means is they collect better data than the US for profit healthcare system and follow up on what happens (there were failures in this regard but over all the government has an incentive to know whether certain treatments are working or not). After following up on kids who went through the Dutch protocol and the more expansive gender affirming care, and collecting data in general, they realized there is no evidence to back up this type of care and that they are doing more harm than good. That’s why they abandoned it. In the US, we aren’t collecting data so the debate, on both sides, is driven by ideology.

It sounds like your problem is with medical treatment for trans kids which is an entirely different animal than school policies.

I thought I was. But then after reading a lot of what was going on in Europe, my understanding now is the process of socially transitioning a child is considered a clinical treatment that has its risks and benefits. If a child wants to present as a different gender socially then it should happen under the direction of a mental health professional because it is a psychological treatment for gender dysphoria. As a result, it should only happen with the knowledge of the parents who are the only people that can consent to a child’s medical treatment (whether mental or otherwise). I have also come to believe that social transition is not a benign, neutral act and puts a child on the path of medicalization. Therefore it must be considered carefully and after a thorough evaluation. I believe that there is a percentage of children who would benefit from transitioning to a different gender (whether only socially or both medically and socially) but I believe that that decision must be made after a careful evaluation. I am not in support of the approach that the right is pushing in the US. But more in support of the conclusion that they have reached in the Netherlands with the data they have.

Like many people reading about this I went through stages. I initially thought it was harmless an

You will be very happy to hear that this is how the majority of transitions are accomplished. Except, of course, where the child in question has bad parents who are incapable of attending to their needs. Ideally there wouldn’t be bad parents, but there are, and so school needs to be a safe place for them for their own health and safety.

You are judging them to be bad parents but in European countries, social transition is no longer viewed as benign or neutral act. It is recommended for some children, but for others, watchful waiting is recommended. It depends on the child and the specific circumstances. It’s not black or white. You can’t make the blanket assumption that what is good for one child is good for another. The Economist has an entire issue devoted to this which I urge you to read. America is now an outlier amongst western nations when it comes to the treatment of gender dysphoria. My personal theory is it’s because we don’t have a government run healthcare program (whether it’s through insurance or provided by the government like the UK). So we don’t collect enough data here or do enough follow up studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids have supportive parents and/or the ability to see a mental health professional. Social transition doesn't need a gatekeeper.

That’s not for you to decide. It’s for the child’s parents. If you suspect abuse you can report the parents to CPS.

If a kid doesn't have supportive parents, they can still socially transition if that's what they want.

But that’s not up to you. A parent is primarily responsible for the welfare of their child. That’s a foundational principle that societies are built on.

Tell that to all of the gay kids growing up in previous generations. Should they have been forced “out” to their unsupportive parents by their schools?