Magnet Convention at Blair High School

[Anonymous]

Got a chance to attend the Magnet Convention at Blair. I was somewhat surprised that these kids could do such groundbreaking research in a span of three months. It made me wonder, how did they get those internships?

[Anonymous]

Students write to faculties and researchers diectly. Most letters went unanwsered but there are still a lot of people are willing to support the talented students.

[Anonymous]

These students found their own internships and completed major research in 3 months or less?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These students found their own internships and completed major research in 3 months or less?

No - They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017.

I hope that clarifies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These students found their own internships and completed major research in 3 months or less?

No - They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017.

I hope that clarifies!

Thank you for the clarification. So these kids did their work in just one summer! It seems to me that most of them just worked at an internship that was obtained through family connections and then wrote up the work that was being done at that lab. No wonder Blair magnet with so many students with parents having connections to local labs excels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These students found their own internships and completed major research in 3 months or less?

No - They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017.

I hope that clarifies!

Thank you for the clarification. So these kids did their work in just one summer! It seems to me that most of them just worked at an internship that was obtained through family connections and then wrote up the work that was being done at that lab. No wonder Blair magnet with so many students with parents having connections to local labs excels.

Nope, some may have had connections, but most had to use cold contacts. I think there are lists of mentors who have offered internships in the past, but the students are also encouraged to look for new sources. It's a numbers game. The kids send out lots of queries and hope for a positive response.

Also the kids don't just observe and write up somebody else's work. I think the mentors help the kids come up with a manageable problem to focus on. It may be just a piece of larger research, they may or may not get significant results, but it's their work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also the kids don't just observe and write up somebody else's work. I think the mentors help the kids come up with a manageable problem to focus on. It may be just a piece of larger research, they may or may not get significant results, but it's their work.

Interesting. How do you know that it is their work? How do you know its is mostly cold contacts?

I am curious because the kids I spoke to didn't know enough about their work except for a very superficial bullshit answer.

[Anonymous]

"They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017."

How do they manage to get around the application process that other students must go through to get into NIH, NASA, NIST, and universities? They seem to have got into research projects that weren't part of the official summer experience at these facilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017."

How do they manage to get around the application process that other students must go through to get into NIH, NASA, NIST, and universities? They seem to have got into research projects that weren't part of the official summer experience at these facilities.

I think they do use the normal channels for existing programs. My child is not a junior yet but just attended a Blair parents meeting where they talked about application fees for certain internship programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They find the internships in spring of their junior year. Sometimes NIH, NASA, NIST and sometimes researchers at universities. They work all summer -- summer between their junior and senior year -- and then finish their senior research project during their senior year. So the seniors you saw searched Winter 2016, worked Summer 2016, finished project Fall 2016-Winter 2017."

How do they manage to get around the application process that other students must go through to get into NIH, NASA, NIST, and universities? They seem to have got into research projects that weren't part of the official summer experience at these facilities.

I don't understand this question. They apply like everyone else. They could also do other work - with professors at universities near by -- for their research project. My son applied to NASA and NIST and other places just like everyone else I suppose. They email academics directly like everyone else. The parents of other children with internships at NIH, etc I know are government attorneys -- so not connected in any way to these institutions. They explain the programming languages they know, their test scores, the academic awards, etc. I believe that's how they get their positions.

I appreciate the general concern about nepotism and entitled connections. It appears oddly directed to students who go to Blair (remember -- this is the school roundly mocked on this forum for too many FARMS kids and too much diversity) and get 1500-1600s on their SATs. These aren't rich connected parents. These are children of government attorneys, NGOs, and academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I appreciate the general concern about nepotism and entitled connections. It appears oddly directed to students who go to Blair (remember -- this is the school roundly mocked on this forum for too many FARMS kids and too much diversity) and get 1500-1600s on their SATs. These aren't rich connected parents. These are children of government attorneys, NGOs, and academics.

That is an odd quote. It is odd how pointedly the poster leaves out the fact that many are children with parents or relatives at NIH, the FDA, etc. Yes, and academics too. That is how they get internships and that is why they can write up the work of others. If these kids had done groundbreaking original work you would see papers with these students as principal authors. 99% don't write any papers despite presenting fancy research for Intel.

Bosse, the teacher at Blair involved in the SRP is also associated with the Montgomery County Science group which you enter as a start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I appreciate the general concern about nepotism and entitled connections. It appears oddly directed to students who go to Blair (remember -- this is the school roundly mocked on this forum for too many FARMS kids and too much diversity) and get 1500-1600s on their SATs. These aren't rich connected parents. These are children of government attorneys, NGOs, and academics.

That is an odd quote. It is odd how pointedly the poster leaves out the fact that many are children with parents or relatives at NIH, the FDA, etc. Yes, and academics too. That is how they get internships and that is why they can write up the work of others. If these kids had done groundbreaking original work you would see papers with these students as principal authors. 99% don't write any papers despite presenting fancy research for Intel.

Bosse, the teacher at Blair involved in the SRP is also associated with the Montgomery County Science group which you enter as a start.

Is it surprising or problematic to you that the research teacher/coordinator at the math science magnet is associated with the Montgomery County Science group? It seems almost expected to me. You seem like you have an ax to grind. If you don't think it is a good program, don't send your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I appreciate the general concern about nepotism and entitled connections. It appears oddly directed to students who go to Blair (remember -- this is the school roundly mocked on this forum for too many FARMS kids and too much diversity) and get 1500-1600s on their SATs. These aren't rich connected parents. These are children of government attorneys, NGOs, and academics.

That is an odd quote. It is odd how pointedly the poster leaves out the fact that many are children with parents or relatives at NIH, the FDA, etc. Yes, and academics too. That is how they get internships and that is why they can write up the work of others. If these kids had done groundbreaking original work you would see papers with these students as principal authors. 99% don't write any papers despite presenting fancy research for Intel.

Bosse, the teacher at Blair involved in the SRP is also associated with the Montgomery County Science group which you enter as a start.

Is it surprising or problematic to you that the research teacher/coordinator at the math science magnet is associated with the Montgomery County Science group? It seems almost expected to me. You seem like you have an ax to grind. If you don't think it is a good program, don't send your child.

Why is that you get defensive when anyone begins to question Blair's magnet program deeply? Why not answer the question or admit it is true that Blair students simply use their relatives and friends to circumvent official application processes to federal and university laboratories and then write up ongoing research?

Does Blair ever verify if these kids do go through official channels?

[Anonymous]

No one is writing up the work of others as if it was theirs. All work is referenced to the people who did it. I'm sure you can find an exception or two but they are outliers and no worse than the referencing errors found in most journals. As the quoted poster properly points out, the vast majority of Blair AND ALL OTHER Intel/Regeneron contestant's work do not result in peer reviewed papers so the referencing standards are a little lower. But I'm sure the Blair kids and Ms Bosse would be very interested to hear ANY referencing suggestions, that is one reason they have the Magnet Convention to get constructive feedback.

In science, if you are a member of a lab and do the part of the research you are asked/figure out on your own to do during the time you are present, you get to weave the other work being done in the lab around yours to tell a story. Just as you weave the other work in the scientific literature around the lab's work to support your work/conclusions. The proportions of each in a presentation can vary.

Sometimes your work is important enough and/or complete enough to support a first authorship on a paper, sometimes a middle authorship but mostly with just a summer of high level HS work, you just complete enough to justify attending a conference to talk to other scientists about what you should do next in your work. HS scientists often pick the Intel/Regeneron "conference" because they know they will get more feedback than at a regular conference where they have to compete with graduate students/post-docs and even principle investigators for their audience.

All scientific work is based on the work of others. A big part of the process is learning to express your contribution while showing how it fits into/supports other's work. This takes a long time to learn to do well and is a subtle process. While I'm sure an occasional over-zealous HS scientist overstates their case, very few overstate their cases as much as the poster I quoted overstated theirs.

"That is how they get internships and that is why they can write up the work of others. If these kids had done groundbreaking original work you would see papers with these students as principal authors. 99% don't write any papers despite presenting fancy research for Intel."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is writing up the work of others as if it was theirs. All work is referenced to the people who did it. I'm sure you can find an exception or two but they are outliers and no worse than the referencing errors found in most journals. As the quoted poster properly points out, the vast majority of Blair AND ALL OTHER Intel/Regeneron contestant's work do not result in peer reviewed papers so the referencing standards are a little lower. But I'm sure the Blair kids and Ms Bosse would be very interested to hear ANY referencing suggestions, that is one reason they have the Magnet Convention to get constructive feedback.

In science, if you are a member of a lab and do the part of the research you are asked/figure out on your own to do during the time you are present, you get to weave the other work being done in the lab around yours to tell a story. Just as you weave the other work in the scientific literature around the lab's work to support your work/conclusions. The proportions of each in a presentation can vary.

Sometimes your work is important enough and/or complete enough to support a first authorship on a paper, sometimes a middle authorship but mostly with just a summer of high level HS work, you just complete enough to justify attending a conference to talk to other scientists about what you should do next in your work. HS scientists often pick the Intel/Regeneron "conference" because they know they will get more feedback than at a regular conference where they have to compete with graduate students/post-docs and even principle investigators for their audience.

All scientific work is based on the work of others. A big part of the process is learning to express your contribution while showing how it fits into/supports other's work. This takes a long time to learn to do well and is a subtle process. While I'm sure an occasional over-zealous HS scientist overstates their case, very few overstate their cases as much as the poster I quoted overstated theirs.

"That is how they get internships and that is why they can write up the work of others. If these kids had done groundbreaking original work you would see papers with these students as principal authors. 99% don't write any papers despite presenting fancy research for Intel."

How could you say "o one is writing up the work of others as if it was theirs. All work is referenced to the people who did it. I'm sure you can find an exception or two but they are outliers and no worse than the referencing errors found in most journals." Did you review the papers? The fact that you seem to concede in typical liberal politically correct fashion is that students did copy the work of others because that is the nature of the beast! Oy!