What to do in the summers if admitted to TJ?

[Anonymous]

So DC is in pool and were it not for the application process, would be applying at this point to a music camp this summer.
I'm fairly clueless but I've heard other parents mention over the last two years that their kids took over the summer before 9th things like programming classes, the freshman stats class, or social studies classes because they needed to get abc out of the way in order to be able to do xyz by senior year at TJ, or something.

Should we not schedule anything for the summer until we find out admissions results? And then what, if DC is in?
FWIW, DC should be in precalc by 9th with 2 years of foreign language credit, but does want to take an arts class each year in HS.

Thx.

[Anonymous]

If D.C. wants four years of fine arts, take summer school. It doesn't' matter what math they are tracking into-- they still have to take 4 years of math at TJ. So, Pre-Calc, AP Calculus, and 2 years of Post AP. So, you gain no free periods. Many languages, especially Spanish, are taught immersion at TJ, and at a much higher/ more accelerated level than standard MS. So kids language test in. There is no guarantee yours will go in with 2 years of Spanish credit, or can keep up in TJ Spanish 3. Might want to ask around your school where kids actually place with 2 years of MS. For most with 2 years, it's Spanish II, not III. For kids with 1 year, they repeat or manage Spanish II! But often struggle. The kids who do well from FCPS take Spanish I over 2 year (Spanish 1A & 1B in MS).

TJ kids do not take a social studies class freshman year because they take IBET. So, they have to make it uo somewhere. Your best bet is world History or Ancient Civilizations, because future math and science classes don't build on them. Some kids take the CS requirement, but I would not recommend if your kid might go on to AP and post AP CS. It's tough to get a solid foundation in TJ level CS in 5 weeks, unless they already have significant programming experience.

Also, everyone takes online EPF at some point. Some over the summer. Some as an 8th class during the year.

But if you think your kid is a real contender, who wants to take fine arts, plan on summer school, and vacation around it.

Also notes, TJ summer school is different dates than FCPS summer school. Usually starts just after 7/4 and runs 5 weeks. But we just got an email saying it would be announced later Feb/early March. (But incoming freshman can't register until acceptances go out. You will at least have a date and class list, though).

-- TJ mom trying to make 4 years of music work.

[Anonymous]

Completely agree with the above. It is very hard to make 4 years of fine arts work without doing summer school. My child did not do summer school as an incoming freshman and that has definitely made her course planning much trickier.

She did Ancient Civ between freshman and sophomore years and that was a good call. You don't technically need World History 1, but she had an easier time in World History 2 because of it. It is also a fairly easy class as far as summer school classes go. Relatively little homework, and since it isn't a prerequisite to anything else your kid is not at a disadvantage compared to kids who took the prerequisite during the regular year.

I would not do any math or science class in summer school. These courses already move so fast at TJ, I can't imagine they could get an adequate foundation in the summer. And you would have to take 2 in order to free up a year slot, because all the math classes before calculus are semester classes. So your child would have to take both research stats and Math 4 to gain an actual year long class slot for a music class. I don't even see Math 4 on the summer school list.

Definitely agree with the language advice. Spanish and French are known as being very hard languages at TJ. A friend's son tested into French 2 as a freshman (after 2 years of MS French with an A) and barely made a B for the year. And that was with getting tutoring practically every 8th period.

I would also strongly suggest your child join marching band or do a fall sport. It is a huge advantage to these kids to have a built in friend group in that first year. I am biased because my daughter is in marching band and it has been an amazing experience for her. The band director is phenomenal and the kids are all so great. She was lukewarm about her instrument before, but not she loves music again in part because she is enjoying the band so much. It does take over you life from August through November.

[Anonymous]

BTW, I'm the first PP and firmly believe that4 years fine arts is wonderful. TJ is a pressure cooker, and it has helped my kid to have something that uses a completely different part of his brain, that he loves

That said, a TJ kid needs 4 years of math, science, history & English taken at TJ (so MS math does not count), 3 years of foreign language, a year of CS, a year of Design Tech, a year of senior research, plus pre-recs to the senior research (which is usually at least a year of astronomy, prototyping, electronics, or the like), 2 years of PE and EPF. So they quickly run out of room.

I have seen a how to take 4 years of fine arts without summer school spreadsheet-- but it just isn't realistic. It assumes senior labs with no pre-recs, which doesn't happen, and junior year CS, when the school requires it to be taken by the end of sophomore year.

For 4 years of fine arts, expect 2 years of summer school and EPF to be taken outside of school (which is a P-F, minimal work online module class my kid did in 2 hours a day over 3 1/2 weeks last summer)). For all our planning, I think DC is going to have to skip fine arts in 10th grade to make TJ work with his specific situation.

[Anonymous]

OP. Thank you so much to both of you for the info. Very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Very helpful information! Now, I really doubt that TJ is the best fit for my kid. Even she's in the pool and she loves science and computer coding. She's been doing outside art school for 7 years and in school band for 3 years. I know that it's impossible for her to give up either one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very helpful information! Now, I really doubt that TJ is the best fit for my kid. Even she's in the pool and she loves science and computer coding. She's been doing outside art school for 7 years and in school band for 3 years. I know that it's impossible for her to give up either one.

Lots of talented kids at TJ doing lots of interesting things in lots of different areas. Some of which aren't STEM related at all. With good time management, I wouldn't see outside art classes being too bad. And band can be done with summer school. That said, no one can do everything. I have the band kid above who will probably have to give it up next year to make the schedule work, but plans to go back his junior year. In the meantime, he is planning to try out for community orchestra for the year it doesn't work with his school schedule. He could also do marching band. Once you have a year of curricular band at TJ, you can March, even if you take a year off of band class.

Don't want to discourage anyone from looking hard at TJ, because it's a great opportunity. And there are definitely kids who do art, sports, instruments, etc at a high level. Just take a real look at the requirements, and be realistic about what your kid wants out of high school. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Once you have a year of curricular band at TJ, you can March, even if you take a year off of band class.

I was also going to mention this. Another nice perk is that if your child is in curricular band, they are NOT required to be in the marching band. At some FCPS high schools, you have to do marching band to enroll in curricular band.

The truth is all HS in this area take a lot of work if your kid is planning to take advanced level STEM and language arts classes. At TJ they are required to take that load vs it being voluntary.

The other thing to consider is the commute. We are fortunate that we are not that far from the school, so my kid almost never takes the bus. But for kids who rely on the bus, it adds a tremendous amount of time to an already long day. A large proportion of the kids in marching band live in Loudon and Prince William counties. I am amazed at their dedication, and that of their parents, to make the TJ experience happen.

[Anonymous]

The realistic problem with 4 years of fine arts at TJ is sophomore year for more kids.

Freshmen: PE, foreign lang, IBET (3 period English, Design Tech and Bio), math, Plus elective (that's band)

Sophomore: PE, Foreign Lang, CHUM(Chemistry, English, Social Studies), Math, Elective (again band)

But, you have to take CS before the end of 10th grade. So, unless you finish your third year of foreign lang. in 9th (and agree with PPs-- DON'T assume 2 years of MS language will place you in 3rd year Spanish or French), you have to either: 1. Drop band for a year to get CS in, 2. Do PE over the summer (which is supposed to be awful) or 3. Do CS over the summer. Which kids certainly do. But it's a bad way to do a foundational TJ level STEM class. If you every want to take it further, you will have issues. Now, if your kid just wants to check it off and survive and never do CS again, it may be fine. But if they want to go further? That's tough.

[Anonymous]

I have a question regarding foreign language requirements. DD only has 1 year of Spanish in middle school. If she takes the placement test and tests into Spanish 3 (she has been taking Spanish privately for close to 5 years ), will she get credits for the 2 levels that she passed or will she still be required to take 3 years of Spanish at TJ?

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

My kid had 2 years of Spanish in middle school and and took Spanish 3 in 9th and AP Spanish in 10th grade at TJ. There were kids suggesting repeating Spanish 2 in 9th but my kid didn't want to and did fine in Spanish 3 and AP Spanish.

If any student wants to repeat a course, take courses P/F, those students are probably better off attending base schools. Students attend TJ to take challenging courses (not just challenging math courses) and engage in other opportunities not offered at base school and not to repeat courses to try to get a better grade or game the system to get better grades. The goal is to challenge and learn not to game the system or try to get better grades.

[Anonymous]

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch.

Yes, I think some of the best advice I got from experienced TJ parents when DD was a rising freshman was she should choose her foreign language carefully. My kid did not take a language in MS, so she had to start with Level 1, so that was never a concern. French and Spanish are known as being really hard with a lot of homework. I have heard Chinese is hard because so many native speakers take it. Russian, Japanese, and German are known as being relatively easy with little homework. I have hard Latin is "easy", but has a lot of homework.

The challenge with the "easier" languages is there is only one teacher per language, so each level is typically only offered at one time slot. Which becomes a problem as a junior when your Russian 3 class conflicts with the only section of the pre-req class that you need for your senior research project. I know that junior and senior scheduling is a nightmare for guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

My kid had 2 years of Spanish in middle school and and took Spanish 3 in 9th and AP Spanish in 10th grade at TJ. There were kids suggesting repeating Spanish 2 in 9th but my kid didn't want to and did fine in Spanish 3 and AP Spanish.

If any student wants to repeat a course, take courses P/F, those students are probably better off attending base schools. Students attend TJ to take challenging courses (not just challenging math courses) and engage in other opportunities not offered at base school and not to repeat courses to try to get a better grade or game the system to get better grades. The goal is to challenge and learn not to game the system or try to get better grades.

That all may be true. But I think one of the problems with TJ is that the kids come to feel they have to be amazing at everything, when the reality is kids are good at different things, and very few are ,geniuses in every single subject. And that kids try to engage in some sort of arms race to skip classes and math levels, self study and test out of classes, take AP exams without the class (9th grade bio being a big example), or take higher levels than the school recommends.

You and I may differ in the goal of education. I see that kids at TJ come out of different middle schools have different levels of readiness, which is why they language test and freshman math placement test. Mine was and is fine in math, science, and English, and ready after geometry to place into Math III. But his school did not do immersion Spanish I, and it turns out they only taught about 2/3 of the material he needed. Why would you put a kid without an adequate Spanish I foundation in Spanish II, rather than stepping back taking the much harder than MS Spanish I TJ class, and mastering the basics before moving on? And if he needs 2 years of summer school to take the advanced engineering classes TJ offers and he really wants, it makes sense to take a capstone class he has minimal interest in over the summer.

So maybe your goal is for your kid to race through the curriculum. That certainly happens. Mine is to have my kid actually learn the material and have a strong foundation to build on. That does not mean he can't do well academically. And in his case take a lot of engineering classes not offered elsewhere.

And the snotty attitude in your post about kids who belong there or don't based on first year foreign language placement is part of why people hate TJ. It's not your place to judge whether other kids you don't know "belong" there. And, FWIW, my kid is at TJ under a 504, in part for very low auditory processing scores. He will never be a foreign language rock star, and always struggle in the oral part of foreign language classes. That might make IB a bad call for him. But it does not make TJ the wrong decision.