What to do in the summers if admitted to TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

My kid had 2 years of Spanish in middle school and and took Spanish 3 in 9th and AP Spanish in 10th grade at TJ. There were kids suggesting repeating Spanish 2 in 9th but my kid didn't want to and did fine in Spanish 3 and AP Spanish.

If any student wants to repeat a course, take courses P/F, those students are probably better off attending base schools. Students attend TJ to take challenging courses (not just challenging math courses) and engage in other opportunities not offered at base school and not to repeat courses to try to get a better grade or game the system to get better grades. The goal is to challenge and learn not to game the system or try to get better grades.

That all may be true. But I think one of the problems with TJ is that the kids come to feel they have to be amazing at everything, when the reality is kids are good at different things, and very few are ,geniuses in every single subject. And that kids try to engage in some sort of arms race to skip classes and math levels, self study and test out of classes, take AP exams without the class (9th grade bio being a big example), or take higher levels than the school recommends.

You and I may differ in the goal of education. I see that kids at TJ come out of different middle schools have different levels of readiness, which is why they language test and freshman math placement test. Mine was and is fine in math, science, and English, and ready after geometry to place into Math III. But his school did not do immersion Spanish I, and it turns out they only taught about 2/3 of the material he needed. Why would you put a kid without an adequate Spanish I foundation in Spanish II, rather than stepping back taking the much harder than MS Spanish I TJ class, and mastering the basics before moving on? And if he needs 2 years of summer school to take the advanced engineering classes TJ offers and he really wants, it makes sense to take a capstone class he has minimal interest in over the summer.

So maybe your goal is for your kid to race through the curriculum. That certainly happens. Mine is to have my kid actually learn the material and have a strong foundation to build on. That does not mean he can't do well academically. And in his case take a lot of engineering classes not offered elsewhere.

And the snotty attitude in your post about kids who belong there or don't based on first year foreign language placement is part of why people hate TJ. It's not your place to judge whether other kids you don't know "belong" there. And, FWIW, my kid is at TJ under a 504, in part for very low auditory processing scores. He will never be a foreign language rock star, and always struggle in the oral part of foreign language classes. That might make IB a bad call for him. But it does not make TJ the wrong decision.

It's not snotty to suggest TJ students should not be repeating classes or take classes pass/fail to increase gpa etc. Not repeating a class or not taking a class pass/fail does not mean racing through the curriculum or not learning the material. There is a problem if learning the material means repeating a class or taking a class pass/fail. 504 cases are exceptional cases and there was no mention of that in the original post. Obviously, 504 cases should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

[Anonymous]

It is snotty to say that your kid came in from a middle school program that prepared them for advanced foreign language, and that, therefore, all kids (who came from 30+ different middle schools, some of whom were not prepared for the next level of language) should all follow the track your D.C. did, or they don't belong. Good for your kid.

Not all middle schools have rigorous foreign language,programs. And a kid a Longfellow, vs Hayfield vs a PWC class are not getting the same material. The fact is many kids with 2 years of MS language go into language II, either because not III. And who come in with one year, take language I not II. And they do this because after the language placement test, TJ requires they move down, or strongly suggests in for "borderline" scorers. And repeating a middle school language class because it taught only part of the material TJ teaches in Language I, and TJ recommends a freshman repeat or drop down a level is not the same as taking a class at TJ, not liking the grade, and then taking the class again to try to raise the grade. And most people see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

My kid had 2 years of Spanish in middle school and and took Spanish 3 in 9th and AP Spanish in 10th grade at TJ. There were kids suggesting repeating Spanish 2 in 9th but my kid didn't want to and did fine in Spanish 3 and AP Spanish.

If any student wants to repeat a course, take courses P/F, those students are probably better off attending base schools. Students attend TJ to take challenging courses (not just challenging math courses) and engage in other opportunities not offered at base school and not to repeat courses to try to get a better grade or game the system to get better grades. The goal is to challenge and learn not to game the system or try to get better grades.

That all may be true. But I think one of the problems with TJ is that the kids come to feel they have to be amazing at everything, when the reality is kids are good at different things, and very few are ,geniuses in every single subject. And that kids try to engage in some sort of arms race to skip classes and math levels, self study and test out of classes, take AP exams without the class (9th grade bio being a big example), or take higher levels than the school recommends.

You and I may differ in the goal of education. I see that kids at TJ come out of different middle schools have different levels of readiness, which is why they language test and freshman math placement test. Mine was and is fine in math, science, and English, and ready after geometry to place into Math III. But his school did not do immersion Spanish I, and it turns out they only taught about 2/3 of the material he needed. Why would you put a kid without an adequate Spanish I foundation in Spanish II, rather than stepping back taking the much harder than MS Spanish I TJ class, and mastering the basics before moving on? And if he needs 2 years of summer school to take the advanced engineering classes TJ offers and he really wants, it makes sense to take a capstone class he has minimal interest in over the summer.

So maybe your goal is for your kid to race through the curriculum. That certainly happens. Mine is to have my kid actually learn the material and have a strong foundation to build on. That does not mean he can't do well academically. And in his case take a lot of engineering classes not offered elsewhere.

And the snotty attitude in your post about kids who belong there or don't based on first year foreign language placement is part of why people hate TJ. It's not your place to judge whether other kids you don't know "belong" there. And, FWIW, my kid is at TJ under a 504, in part for very low auditory processing scores. He will never be a foreign language rock star, and always struggle in the oral part of foreign language classes. That might make IB a bad call for him. But it does not make TJ the wrong decision.

It's not snotty to suggest TJ students should not be repeating classes or take classes pass/fail to increase gpa etc. Not repeating a class or not taking a class pass/fail does not mean racing through the curriculum or not learning the material. There is a problem if learning the material means repeating a class or taking a class pass/fail. 504 cases are exceptional cases and there was no mention of that in the original post. Obviously, 504 cases should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

BTW-- taking a class P-F has no impact on GPA. It is not factored in to the GPA at all, unless the kid fails the class. If you are taking the class online, through FCPS, not TJ, and over the summer-- you need to compress a year into 5 weeks. And if you don't intend to take Spanish IV or AP, why not pass-fail? And in the case of my kid, if auditory processing issues make foreign language tough, why make things harder than they already are? And why not open up,a spot for a TJ specific,elective, like prototyping, or an extra AP science?

Kids may be at TJ for a challenge. But the primary expectation in the STEM school is that they will challenge themselves in STEM fields. You should not be at TJ if your goal is to be a foreign language major (English major, history major) You can get the exact same curriculum in these areas, maybe with 1-2 fewer languages and taught at a less rigorous level, in the base school. You cannot get a comparable STEM curriculum there, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is snotty to say that your kid came in from a middle school program that prepared them for advanced foreign language, and that, therefore, all kids (who came from 30+ different middle schools, some of whom were not prepared for the next level of language) should all follow the track your D.C. did, or they don't belong. Good for your kid.

Not all middle schools have rigorous foreign language,programs. And a kid a Longfellow, vs Hayfield vs a PWC class are not getting the same material. The fact is many kids with 2 years of MS language go into language II, either because not III. And who come in with one year, take language I not II. And they do this because after the language placement test, TJ requires they move down, or strongly suggests in for "borderline" scorers. And repeating a middle school language class because it taught only part of the material TJ teaches in Language I, and TJ recommends a freshman repeat or drop down a level is not the same as taking a class at TJ, not liking the grade, and then taking the class again to try to raise the grade. And most people see the difference.

Your kid was not placed in Spanish I but placed into Spanish II after the TJ placement test so don't blame the placement test. Also, you say "My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ" so don't act like your kid attended a below average middle school. In fact, your kid attended the best possible middle school for TJ. My kid did not attend Carson or Longfellow, in fact, he didn't even attend AAP and attended below average middle school with poor foreign language program.

I am not trying to compare anything but to point out that repeating a course to get higher grade or trying to find a way to take a class pass/fail to get higher grade is contrary to the aim of TJ which is to take challenging courses and take advantage of the research opportunities and other opportunities at TJ and not trying to obtain high grades.

I am sure your kid did not say I want to repeat classes and take classes pass/fail once I get to TJ to try to get higher grades on the long essay or the SIS when applying to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is snotty to say that your kid came in from a middle school program that prepared them for advanced foreign language, and that, therefore, all kids (who came from 30+ different middle schools, some of whom were not prepared for the next level of language) should all follow the track your D.C. did, or they don't belong. Good for your kid.

Not all middle schools have rigorous foreign language,programs. And a kid a Longfellow, vs Hayfield vs a PWC class are not getting the same material. The fact is many kids with 2 years of MS language go into language II, either because not III. And who come in with one year, take language I not II. And they do this because after the language placement test, TJ requires they move down, or strongly suggests in for "borderline" scorers. And repeating a middle school language class because it taught only part of the material TJ teaches in Language I, and TJ recommends a freshman repeat or drop down a level is not the same as taking a class at TJ, not liking the grade, and then taking the class again to try to raise the grade. And most people see the difference.

Your kid was not placed in Spanish I but placed into Spanish II after the TJ placement test so don't blame the placement test. Also, you say "My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ" so don't act like your kid attended a below average middle school. In fact, your kid attended the best possible middle school for TJ. My kid did not attend Carson or Longfellow, in fact, he didn't even attend AAP and attended below average middle school with poor foreign language program.

I am not trying to compare anything but to point out that repeating a course to get higher grade or trying to find a way to take a class pass/fail to get higher grade is contrary to the aim of TJ which is to take challenging courses and take advantage of the research opportunities and other opportunities at TJ and not trying to obtain high grades.

I am sure your kid did not say I want to repeat classes and take classes pass/fail once I get to TJ to try to get higher grades on the long essay or the SIS when applying to TJ.

My kid scored in the borderline region on the placement test. It was recommended that he do Spanish I based on his score, but he was allowed to try Spanish II, because his score was in the in between region. He wanted to try Spanish II, and because he had a strong MS Spanish grade, we let him try. It was clear from the start that it was the wrong placement, based in large part on the oral oral/immersion requirements, which were not really assessed on the placement. His MS class focused mostly on reading and writing. He did 8th period, worked with the teacher, etc., but ultimately the teacher and guidance counselor recommended he move down to Spanish I.

And Carson generally does a great job getting kids ready for TJ. That does not mean every teacher in every classroom does though. Some teachers are just better than others. And there is a lot less emphasis on foreign language than math & science.

None of this makes my kid somehow unworthy of TJ.

[Anonymous]

The Spanish teachers at TJ are notorious for being tough and dis-organized. Take another language if you want easy. Back to OP - first thing, wait until your kid is admitted to TJ before you start worrying.

Then, if they are admitted, listen to your kid. If THEY want to take summer school look into it. If they, balk, think twice. Plenty of kids take summer school, and plenty don't.

Signed,

Parent of a kid who has take summer school very summer prior to TJ school year against my better judgment.

[Anonymous]

At most high schools, Latin is considered the hardest language and attracts the best students, but it seems that people here are saying Latin is "easy" at TJ.

Why is that? Is it because the Latin teachers at TJ are better teachers and more organized?

Most college admissions people I've talked to think highly of Latin on a transcript and think it shows a more rigorous course of study in high school, so it is interesting to read almost the opposite in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Spanish teachers at TJ are notorious for being tough and dis-organized. Take another language if you want easy. Back to OP - first thing, wait until your kid is admitted to TJ before you start worrying.

Then, if they are admitted, listen to your kid. If THEY want to take summer school look into it. If they, balk, think twice. Plenty of kids take summer school, and plenty don't.

Signed,

Parent of a kid who has take summer school very summer prior to TJ school year against my better judgment.

Also-- this exchanges brings to mind a BTDT parent tip. The TJ counselors know what they are doing. When they do donmath and language and CS placement test, give serious consideration to what they recommend. If they recommend your kid goes into the lower level language, or math 2.5 instead of math 3, or CS instead of AP or accelerated CS, or when they get older that they take regular physics and not AP, or only 3 APs, not 5, at least hear them out and give their advice consideration, even if you go a different way in the end. Every TJ parent has a kid who has gone through school overachieving in the hardest possible classes. So, it's easy to think that your kid can fill in the gaps and be fine. But all kids at TJ are like your kid, and smarter, and counselors take that into account. So at least hear counselor recommendations out.

[Anonymous]

I am new parent to TJ but my two cents is to set your expectations lower. ANY degree from TJ is amazing. Your child may not be able to take every advantage of TJ, but they will still graduate with a fantastic education and they can explore more STEM topics at college. So my freshman did not take summer school (not sure about this summer) and not getting all A's but mostly. Things get a bit intense there but we are running our own race compared to all other 9th graders, not just TJ 9th graders. I am confident my kid will find their way with collapsing from pressure of going up what he loves.

FWIW he has Latin and loves it, but it is a far cry from easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am new parent to TJ but my two cents is to set your expectations lower. ANY degree from TJ is amazing. Your child may not be able to take every advantage of TJ, but they will still graduate with a fantastic education and they can explore more STEM topics at college. So my freshman did not take summer school (not sure about this summer) and not getting all A's but mostly. Things get a bit intense there but we are running our own race compared to all other 9th graders, not just TJ 9th graders. I am confident my kid will find their way with collapsing from pressure of going up what he loves.

FWIW he has Latin and loves it, but it is a far cry from easy.

+2. We tell our kid that TJ isn't a race. You gotta do you, and let other kids do them. Otherwise, crazy is a certainty.

[Anonymous]

A lot of useful information and thoughtful comments. My DD is in the pool now, and whether attending TJ will be her own decision.

[Anonymous]

Genuine good wishes to everyone going through the admissions process now..BTDT, and it's stressful. TJ is amazing if it's a good fit your kid. But, we've also seen kids who were not admitted, and go on to have amazing an base school experience, go on to top colleges, and say they were ultimately glad they did not attend.

I hope all this years 8th graders end up in the best place for them. (And reading these threads makes me realize how much I am not looking forward to doing TJ admissions the sequel with DC2 next year. Ugghh. There should be a way to shorten the timeline).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would be a question for guidance. Her MS credit would count as long as it was Spanish 1 and not Spanish 1A. But they need 3 years of one language, and that means 3 credits. So she would most likely be looking at Spanish 3 and 4/AP OR Spanish 2 and 3 depending on her placement test. But if she barely tests into Spanish 3, I would strongly suggest Spanish 2 and 3.

This, about going with the lower level. My D.C. had one year of MS Spanish, with a high A, and at Carson, which is supposed to be good at getting kids ready for TJ. He barely placed into Spanish II. But, 6 weeks into the school year, he was making a D in Spanish II, with no real way to get better. He just didn't have the background he needed. He dropped down to Spanish I, and is now making a high A. I hate he had to repeat, but we were looking at a terrible struggle in Spanish II, followed by a terrible struggle in Spanish III. And he is by far not the only kid who dropped down a level in French or Spanish from Carson. Other kids from Carson who stayed in Spanish II and French II are finding it's their lowest grade and having problems. Honestly, the academic transition from MS to TJ is tough enough without him killing himself to pass Spanish II.

The new plan is to take Spanish II in 10th, and then Spanish III Pass-Fail online during the summer between 10th and 11th. Which it looks like he can do given the TJ online policy and the FCPS P-F policy. But we won't know for sure until we ask student services and they sign off. (In fact if anyone has done summer Spanish III or tried o PF it, please post if it was possible). I have a kid who just wants to get the foreign language requirement out of the way as easily as possible and free up space for advanced engineering classes.

Had I known, I would have encouraged him to take Japanese, Latin or Russian, which are the "easy" language classes, since he had to start from scratch. But by the time he moved from Spanish II to Spanish I, we were too late in the school year to start a brand new language.

You must be joking about Latin. Latin is one of the most rigorous foreign language at TJ. They have 2 very good Latin teachers but very stingy with grade.

[Anonymous]

Is it advisable to take Research Statistics 1 in the summer preceding Freshman year? DD is taking Pre AP algebra 2/Trig in 8th grade right now, and it looks like she'll be placed in Math 4 at TJ unless she takes the placement test and passes it . Her goal is to take Math 4&5 during freshman then Calculus Sophomore year. It looks like if she doesn't take either Statistics, Math 4 or 5 in the summer, she'll have to wait until Junior year for Calculus.

Do a lot of kids try the placement test to skip Math 4? What is it equivalent to? Precalculus?

[Anonymous]

Yes. Research Statistics is offered in the summer preceding the freshman year. However, It is far cry from the experience during the school year where you reduce a semester course into 12 days.