Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know what traffic into DC is like today, especially on 66?

Thanks for thinking of you. Also the crash was on the south side of the airport so why would 66 be affected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The contributing factors to this crash will never be fully addressed. The fundamental problem is the orientation of Runway 33 vis-a-vis military traffic on the east side of the Potomac. It’s past time that Runway 33 is closed. If that means DCA has to shed a few slots so be it. Plenty of capacity at IAD.

That was also the opinion of a guest (aviation expert?) on nbc4 this morning. Planes have to swing out to the east side of the river to land on that runway, which brings them into the same space as the helicopters that fly low and the helicopters have to maintain visual distance. Too much can go wrong.

I know nothing about airplanes. But I cannot understand how in 2025, planes aren’t equipped with technology that gives them exact location and screen visualization of other close airplanes in the air. I can understand how the naked eye could miss a nearby plane when traveling from above or below, plus night, and fast moving. But surely helicopters and commercial planes have better onboard technology than purely relying on the pilot looking out the window.

They do. But the automated system doesn’t work below 1,000 feet because you can’t descend into the ocean. ATC also has radar to deconflict traffic. All aircraft in the area have transponders that others can see. But yeah in 2025 we have see and avoid. And I want say this enough - both craft were on published routes that cross. This was only a matter of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bowser is speaking very painful and unpolished

Trump is a million times worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ATC did everything right. How about some concern for those doing a highly stressful job? Yes, there are staffing shortages that everyone on this board should be concerned about. We take it for granted that flights take off and land safely every day ("safer than driving on the beltway") but do we really stop to consider how that happens and the people in the tower who make that happen? We'd all benefit from more ATCs who are well supported, materially and emotionally. I'd like to know why a training flight had to happen at night in that particular airspace.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.
Big difference.

For whatever reason, the helicopter cut to the west side of the river whilst adjacent DCA.
The ATCs aren't magic. They can repeatedly tell a helicopter to avoid collision but they can't actually change how they're flying. You also know the ATC who was talking to the helicopter A) is dealing with a mandatory investigation B) is likely devastated by what happened and C) is going to face blame from the media even if totally cleared and could potentially face harassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FAA has been understaffed and underfunded for decades. New cuts would be extremely dangerous.

Yup.

Trump is such an idiot!!! Indiscriminately telling ALL Federal employees they can quit. Even when we have a shortage and their jobs are a matter of life and death. Fox employees cannot take everyone’s place 🙄

Well, i would agree with you if this happened 1 month or even one week from today after a bunch of quits, but this is too recent to say it has anything to do with the OPM resignation; the other argument was that this is a leftover issue from the Biden administration but I don't think its either case so time to move off politics.

Nope. It’s Trump’s fault.

He claims credit for good items leftover from Biden and blames Biden for anything that doesn’t go well.

Using Trump’s own “rules,” this is on Trump.

Plus he has been harassing federal employees for the last week. ATCs are federal employees and already in a stressful job. Having the president talk about firing you and your friends only adds to the stress.

THIS^

Biden signed the bill that increase air traffic and this flight

It’s going to be the helicopter’s fault, so let’s figure out why they were there.

It’s because of the combination of increased helicopters and traffic in/out of DCA.

Having a training exercise by a major airport at night is insane. The pilot’s mind is going to be focused on the exercise, there is reduced visibility, it’s difficult to see airplane lights admits the city lights, and there are multiple planes to keep an eye on.

Also keep in mind that genetically, we are still apes designed for a slow pace on the ground. Not for travelling hundred of miles an hour in the air. If you look at birds, which are designed to fly in close contact at high speeds while making sharp turns, they have completely different adaptations, including much faster visual processing, better eyesight, 360 degree vision, and senses we don’t even have.

While it may be the helicopter’s “fault”, these accidents come down to bad engineering that didn’t take into account human limitations and human error. No matter what, people will always make mistakes and things need to be engineered to accommodate that. Not push the limits until a catastrophe happens.

We all have made massive mistakes at our own jobs. It’s human. We have limitations.

I didn’t mean to blame them in that way. But to fix a problem you need to know what caused it.

[Anonymous]

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families at this devastating time.

[Anonymous]

Why would the helicopter have gone dark *before* it hit the plane?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families at this devastating time.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s chaos in every single branch of the government right now. But sure blame the airport.

This is human error, not the government’s fault. But how can you not put some blame on the airport? It’s literally their job to manage planes landing. Saying to the helicopter “do you see the plane” when there are multiple close by planes, including one close enough to crash into them, seems like mismanagement of air traffic to me

[Anonymous]

I meant my thoughts and prayers are with the jet and helicopter people and their families and communities. And ATC and DCA people.

This is so tragic and awful.

[Anonymous]

Bad week for AA.

https://www.wbtv.com/2025/01/28/american-airlines-tug-hits-kills-employee-tarmac-charlotte-airport/?outputType=amp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ATC did everything right. How about some concern for those doing a highly stressful job? Yes, there are staffing shortages that everyone on this board should be concerned about. We take it for granted that flights take off and land safely every day ("safer than driving on the beltway") but do we really stop to consider how that happens and the people in the tower who make that happen? We'd all benefit from more ATCs who are well supported, materially and emotionally. I'd like to know why a training flight had to happen at night in that particular airspace.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.
Big difference.

For whatever reason, the helicopter cut to the west side of the river whilst adjacent DCA.
The ATCs aren't magic. They can repeatedly tell a helicopter to avoid collision but they can't actually change how they're flying. You also know the ATC who was talking to the helicopter A) is dealing with a mandatory investigation B) is likely devastated by what happened and C) is going to face blame from the media even if totally cleared and could potentially face harassment.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.

Big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The contributing factors to this crash will never be fully addressed. The fundamental problem is the orientation of Runway 33 vis-a-vis military traffic on the east side of the Potomac. It’s past time that Runway 33 is closed. If that means DCA has to shed a few slots so be it. Plenty of capacity at IAD.

That was also the opinion of a guest (aviation expert?) on nbc4 this morning. Planes have to swing out to the east side of the river to land on that runway, which brings them into the same space as the helicopters that fly low and the helicopters have to maintain visual distance. Too much can go wrong.

I know nothing about airplanes. But I cannot understand how in 2025, planes aren’t equipped with technology that gives them exact location and screen visualization of other close airplanes in the air. I can understand how the naked eye could miss a nearby plane when traveling from above or below, plus night, and fast moving. But surely helicopters and commercial planes have better onboard technology than purely relying on the pilot looking out the window.

It wouldn’t have made a difference. Imagine when you’re driving - would you want to be staring at a screen that shows where the cars are, or looking directly outside? The screen adds a distraction and a delay.

They do have technology similar to a car’s collision avoidance system but when they are that close to multiple other aircraft, it’s turned off because it would go off constantly. Or even if it was on, it would go off constantly and pilot would become essentially blind to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ATC did everything right. How about some concern for those doing a highly stressful job? Yes, there are staffing shortages that everyone on this board should be concerned about. We take it for granted that flights take off and land safely every day ("safer than driving on the beltway") but do we really stop to consider how that happens and the people in the tower who make that happen? We'd all benefit from more ATCs who are well supported, materially and emotionally. I'd like to know why a training flight had to happen at night in that particular airspace.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.
Big difference.

For whatever reason, the helicopter cut to the west side of the river whilst adjacent DCA.
The ATCs aren't magic. They can repeatedly tell a helicopter to avoid collision but they can't actually change how they're flying. You also know the ATC who was talking to the helicopter A) is dealing with a mandatory investigation B) is likely devastated by what happened and C) is going to face blame from the media even if totally cleared and could potentially face harassment.

But why wouldn’t ATC tell the helicopter the exact location of the plane they are referring to that they are closest to colliding with? Maybe they did? But my interruption was that the call to the helicopter was vague considering at least 2-3 other planes were close by and descending

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s chaos in every single branch of the government right now. But sure blame the airport.

This is human error, not the government’s fault. But how can you not put some blame on the airport? It’s literally their job to manage planes landing. Saying to the helicopter “do you see the plane” when there are multiple close by planes, including one close enough to crash into them, seems like mismanagement of air traffic to me

I just know what’s happening in certain branches whose role is to serve and protect. Long hours. Chaos. Tunnel vision on certain objectives. So sure, I’m biased. But I can’t help but feel like we will see more casualties.