Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

+1

You can not tell the colleges what to do - just because you tell your kids what to do, does not mean the rest of the world works like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

DP here. Here is the issue. I will spell it out for you. Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT for the majority, who were not cheating. You may want to deny it, or pretend it did not happen - but it did, and now admissions is changed forever. Nothing you say or do, including pointing at other groups, will change that.

Congratulations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

Won't happen.

[Anonymous]

Are other countries so 'teach to the test', that they do not understand those countries who do not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

OK...so basically there is no algorithm. I mean, even people that may generally agree with your overall argument, will likely fall away as they peel back in the onion on your idea.

You do realize of course is if this all you do for college, then you will now have likely 10x - 20x the number of kids with a perfect GPA and perfect or near-perfect SAT scores. BTW...the rich kids will easily figure out a way to buy these scores.

And again, how will Yale drama or the equivalent pick their applicants?

+1

Who would want their kid at a school where students were picked solely on SAT/GPA/# of APs taken? where everyone got 1580+ and perfect GPA and took 12+ APs?
There is more to life than just doing well on tests. Harvard (and the likes) want top students, leaders, intellectually curious students who want to go out and change the world. Majority of the kids I've known who gained admissions to T20 schools have something "extra" beyond just the 1500+/4.0---they are leaders, highly motivated, intellectually curious, etc. Yes, some get there because of wealth/privilege that helped them curate a resume for college, but majority would have done 75% of what they did even without being told to, it's just their natural being.

A kid who will be best fit for Harvard is very different than one for CMU and same for Yale and Columbia, etc. Each school is very different and if you visit and talk to students you can easily see that. That comes from the admission process.

And yes, the music, art, drama, etc departments are filled with students in a very different manner than the CS dept. But even there, the CS dept will be a better group of students if you have kids who have other interests than just CS and exit their rooms/labs more than 1 hour a day---you want kids who also want a philosophy minor or who play in the orchestra or nurture their artistic side along with the STEM side.

If you want schools that select solely on gpa/test scores, there are plenty in Europe to meet your needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

+1

It is remarkable that some of the PPs are so simple minded, yet do not understand why the admittances should not be only STEM. Stereotypes exist for a reason.

+2

or why the English/art history major may not have an 800 math score and why that is NOT needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

DP here. Here is the issue. I will spell it out for you. Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT for the majority, who were not cheating. You may want to deny it, or pretend it did not happen - but it did, and now admissions is changed forever. Nothing you say or do, including pointing at other groups, will change that.

Congratulations?

Lol. 'Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT'.

Just say it - you mean Asians. No need to hide behind your racist dog whistle that stereotypes Asians as cheaters. No way possibly that Asians could be that much higher performing than all other racial and ethnic groups - it must be because they cheated or are cheating. What a horrific stereotype.

Your racism and anti-asian hate is showing. Just wear it on your sleeve at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

OK...so basically there is no algorithm. I mean, even people that may generally agree with your overall argument, will likely fall away as they peel back in the onion on your idea.

You do realize of course is if this all you do for college, then you will now have likely 10x - 20x the number of kids with a perfect GPA and perfect or near-perfect SAT scores. BTW...the rich kids will easily figure out a way to buy these scores.

And again, how will Yale drama or the equivalent pick their applicants?

+1

Who would want their kid at a school where students were picked solely on SAT/GPA/# of APs taken? where everyone got 1580+ and perfect GPA and took 12+ APs?
There is more to life than just doing well on tests. Harvard (and the likes) want top students, leaders, intellectually curious students who want to go out and change the world. Majority of the kids I've known who gained admissions to T20 schools have something "extra" beyond just the 1500+/4.0---they are leaders, highly motivated, intellectually curious, etc. Yes, some get there because of wealth/privilege that helped them curate a resume for college, but majority would have done 75% of what they did even without being told to, it's just their natural being.

A kid who will be best fit for Harvard is very different than one for CMU and same for Yale and Columbia, etc. Each school is very different and if you visit and talk to students you can easily see that. That comes from the admission process.

And yes, the music, art, drama, etc departments are filled with students in a very different manner than the CS dept. But even there, the CS dept will be a better group of students if you have kids who have other interests than just CS and exit their rooms/labs more than 1 hour a day---you want kids who also want a philosophy minor or who play in the orchestra or nurture their artistic side along with the STEM side.

If you want schools that select solely on gpa/test scores, there are plenty in Europe to meet your needs.

Put another way, colleges want to accept kids that they believe will be successful in life, and success can be measured in different ways. Princeton is just as proud of Jeff Bezos with Amazon as they are of the woman (don't remember name) that founded Teach For America.

We all know plenty of people that had straight As and top scores that didn't amount to much of anything in life. That's just the reality.

They are venture investors in people...everyone they accept they think will be a world-changer, knowing full well that 99% won't. However, that remaining 1% will more than make-up for the 99% with what they achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

+1

You can not tell the colleges what to do - just because you tell your kids what to do, does not mean the rest of the world works like that.

Outside of High level finance or PE firms, who works with only people who attended an Ivy/T20 school? Who works with kids who got 4.0/1600 in HS? Not very likely, because most of us work with people who went to CC/basic 4 year state U that admits 90% all the way up to T20 grads. Much more likely you work with non-T20 grads. Even if you are a T20 grad, there is a good chance your boss is not. Fact is majority of people go on to succeed in life no matter where they go to college. It's what they do in life/at college that propels them to success, not where they went to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

Racist decision making like relying on the SAT, which has a disparate negative impact on Black students?

Or racist decision making like not relying on the SAT, which has a disparate negative impact on Asian students?

What if Yale Engineering uses a strict SAT cutoff and Yale Drama is test blind? Is Yale still tax exempt y/n?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

Schools that are rejecting 95% of their applicants are not using racism. The asian with a 1590/4.0 who gets rejected has good company with many other asians, whites, blacks, hispanics, etc who also got rejected. Plenty of kids with those stats are getting rejected, because the school is rejecting majority of students, most of whom are highly qualified. So it's not "racism" to reject someone with good test scores.

Also, the research done at universities costs the government far less than it would in industry.....remove the research and we would crumble as a country and could not afford to pay full price for the research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

Schools that are rejecting 95% of their applicants are not using racism. The asian with a 1590/4.0 who gets rejected has good company with many other asians, whites, blacks, hispanics, etc who also got rejected. Plenty of kids with those stats are getting rejected, because the school is rejecting majority of students, most of whom are highly qualified. So it's not "racism" to reject someone with good test scores.

Also, the research done at universities costs the government far less than it would in industry.....remove the research and we would crumble as a country and could not afford to pay full price for the research.

+1

It's astounding that seemingly smart people cannot understand simple math. Schools that accept only 5-7% of applicants are "highly rejective schools" Just because you did what you were told and got good grades and top scores does NOT entitle you to admission at any of these schools. But if you are really that smart, then you should understand this, apply to a wide range of schools and easily find one that you can gain admission to that will be the right fit. Instead of putting all efforts into complaining about getting rejected and it's unfair, focus your efforts on finding the right school for your kid that you can get into. If you have those stats, you will get into many in the 25-50/60 range. Unless your attitude is an issue---schools want kids who want to be there and will contribute to the overall betterment of the school. If you are so entitled that attending #30 is "below you" the school might sense that and not offer you admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:

1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?

The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?

You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.

Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.

Random selection. Donezo.

You are free to start a university and do exactly this. However, current universities are free to set their own guidelines for selecting students. FYI---they obviously see the value in accepting the low income/inner city student with only a 1500 who works 30 hours/week to help support their family. The fact that it might come at the expense of your kid does not make it the wrong choice. A High SAT does not (and should not) guarantee you admission to an elite college.

Sure. But those same universities claiming they're private and can use racist decision making in their selections should simultaneously be cutoff from federal funding and any research grants from taxpayer dollars. You can't have it both ways.

Racist decision making like relying on the SAT, which has a disparate negative impact on Black students?

Or racist decision making like not relying on the SAT, which has a disparate negative impact on Asian students?

What if Yale Engineering uses a strict SAT cutoff and Yale Drama is test blind? Is Yale still tax exempt y/n?

Omg, whatever would we do without Yale drama!