Where do the B+ - high SAT students go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian kids get to grow up in way better and safer environments than kids of other racial groups. It’s not even close.

Well, better yes. Safer? Not really. A case in point - two homes on the same street. Similar HHI and SES,, each home has a kid, both same age, both going to same school. Parents are equally educated in both cases. One kid is my Asian-American kid the other kid is not Asian-American. My kid is considered privileged because his parents are married whereas the other kids parents divorced a few years back. I get up at 5 am to cook for the day, the other mom orders in food. I clean my own house, the other mom is always sipping wine on her patio while a cleaning lady is cleaning her home. I take my kid for scholastic competitions and the other mom has BBQ and beer in the backyard. My kid does well in school and the other kid could not care less. My kid does not get everything he wants because we are saving for college, the other kid gets all the electronics and smart phone you can think of. My kid wears hand me downs from his cousins, the other kid only wears brand-name stuff. My kid excels in academics and ECs, the other kid is troubled and chooses not to attend classes. The other kid's home has CCTV, Ring, Alarm Service. It is more secure and safe than Fort Knox. So his environment is safer. Maybe he and his family think that their life is also better? Maybe they think that his future is brighter? I don't know. What I do know that it is insulting to call the sacrifices of the parents as a privilege. Everyone can make these sacrifices for their children as no one is stopping them from doing so. No one is also forcing them to have children if they are incapable of raising them. The parents can use their human brain instead of their animal brain and make the simple choice to put their kid first. We are not talking about kids in ghettos who are scrambling to survive.

But sure, it was a grand nefarious plan of Asian parents to create a healthy home life for their children. O, Shoot me, for giving a damn for my child. Sorry for knowing how to cook rice three different ways!!

DP: I don't disagree with some of your points, but I question your stereotypical treatment of others and neglect of discussion of the more prevalent systemic factors involved in discrimination and racism. And, also, like it or not, at least one principle guiding policies in the US is to try to give each CHILD an equal opportunity, less dependent on what their parents do. Does this sometimes reward poor parental decisions? Yes. But it does act as a small counter to the idea that your parents' sacrifices/assets/choices/strengths determine your outcome.

But kids have always been at the mercy of whoever they were born to (or raised by). That stroke of fortune is the most determinant factor in their outcome I believe.

Which is why we have at least a few policies that try to counter the lifelong impacts of that.

Hah! The black kid who is the son of the Janitor and living in projects is not applying to college. The one who are utilizing the affirmative action is the son of the Nigerian-American doctors who have a slew of private college counselors to guide him. If you have to have policies to make a difference, make policies for everyone who have a HHI under a certain threshold. Track students who are vulnerable and need guidance. Don't make it smoke and mirrors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian kids get to grow up in way better and safer environments than kids of other racial groups. It’s not even close.

Well, better yes. Safer? Not really. A case in point - two homes on the same street. Similar HHI and SES,, each home has a kid, both same age, both going to same school. Parents are equally educated in both cases. One kid is my Asian-American kid the other kid is not Asian-American. My kid is considered privileged because his parents are married whereas the other kids parents divorced a few years back. I get up at 5 am to cook for the day, the other mom orders in food. I clean my own house, the other mom is always sipping wine on her patio while a cleaning lady is cleaning her home. I take my kid for scholastic competitions and the other mom has BBQ and beer in the backyard. My kid does well in school and the other kid could not care less. My kid does not get everything he wants because we are saving for college, the other kid gets all the electronics and smart phone you can think of. My kid wears hand me downs from his cousins, the other kid only wears brand-name stuff. My kid excels in academics and ECs, the other kid is troubled and chooses not to attend classes. The other kid's home has CCTV, Ring, Alarm Service. It is more secure and safe than Fort Knox. So his environment is safer. Maybe he and his family think that their life is also better? Maybe they think that his future is brighter? I don't know. What I do know that it is insulting to call the sacrifices of the parents as a privilege. Everyone can make these sacrifices for their children as no one is stopping them from doing so. No one is also forcing them to have children if they are incapable of raising them. The parents can use their human brain instead of their animal brain and make the simple choice to put their kid first. We are not talking about kids in ghettos who are scrambling to survive.

But sure, it was a grand nefarious plan of Asian parents to create a healthy home life for their children. O, Shoot me, for giving a damn for my child. Sorry for knowing how to cook rice three different ways!!

DP: I don't disagree with some of your points, but I question your stereotypical treatment of others and neglect of discussion of the more prevalent systemic factors involved in discrimination and racism. And, also, like it or not, at least one principle guiding policies in the US is to try to give each CHILD an equal opportunity, less dependent on what their parents do. Does this sometimes reward poor parental decisions? Yes. But it does act as a small counter to the idea that your parents' sacrifices/assets/choices/strengths determine your outcome.

Well, an Asian-American kid can ask for no more. All that kid wants is an equal opportunity from the schools, colleges and employers. And let it not be dependent on what sacrifices their parents make. If you are not asking for other parents of other races to make the sacrifices for their children, then why ask that of Asian-American parents? And why penalize their children if the parents do make the sacrifice?

Asian-American students are also children and are also under all kinds of stress. They are no less precious than other children. A brain is a terrible thing to waste but there is no shame in wasting the brains of Asian-Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian kids get to grow up in way better and safer environments than kids of other racial groups. It’s not even close.

Well, better yes. Safer? Not really. A case in point - two homes on the same street. Similar HHI and SES,, each home has a kid, both same age, both going to same school. Parents are equally educated in both cases. One kid is my Asian-American kid the other kid is not Asian-American. My kid is considered privileged because his parents are married whereas the other kids parents divorced a few years back. I get up at 5 am to cook for the day, the other mom orders in food. I clean my own house, the other mom is always sipping wine on her patio while a cleaning lady is cleaning her home. I take my kid for scholastic competitions and the other mom has BBQ and beer in the backyard. My kid does well in school and the other kid could not care less. My kid does not get everything he wants because we are saving for college, the other kid gets all the electronics and smart phone you can think of. My kid wears hand me downs from his cousins, the other kid only wears brand-name stuff. My kid excels in academics and ECs, the other kid is troubled and chooses not to attend classes. The other kid's home has CCTV, Ring, Alarm Service. It is more secure and safe than Fort Knox. So his environment is safer. Maybe he and his family think that their life is also better? Maybe they think that his future is brighter? I don't know. What I do know that it is insulting to call the sacrifices of the parents as a privilege. Everyone can make these sacrifices for their children as no one is stopping them from doing so. No one is also forcing them to have children if they are incapable of raising them. The parents can use their human brain instead of their animal brain and make the simple choice to put their kid first. We are not talking about kids in ghettos who are scrambling to survive.

But sure, it was a grand nefarious plan of Asian parents to create a healthy home life for their children. O, Shoot me, for giving a damn for my child. Sorry for knowing how to cook rice three different ways!!

DP: I don't disagree with some of your points, but I question your stereotypical treatment of others and neglect of discussion of the more prevalent systemic factors involved in discrimination and racism. And, also, like it or not, at least one principle guiding policies in the US is to try to give each CHILD an equal opportunity, less dependent on what their parents do. Does this sometimes reward poor parental decisions? Yes. But it does act as a small counter to the idea that your parents' sacrifices/assets/choices/strengths determine your outcome.

Well, an Asian-American kid can ask for no more. All that kid wants is an equal opportunity from the schools, colleges and employers. And let it not be dependent on what sacrifices their parents make. If you are not asking for other parents of other races to make the sacrifices for their children, then why ask that of Asian-American parents? And why penalize their children if the parents do make the sacrifice?

Asian-American students are also children and are also under all kinds of stress. They are no less precious than other children. A brain is a terrible thing to waste but there is no shame in wasting the brains of Asian-Americans.

Nobody is saying they are any less precious or don't have equal opportunity. If an Asian-American kid is first generation to go to college, they will get resources allotted for first generation to go to college the same as anyone else. If an Asian-American kid is in a low-income family they will get the resources allotted for low income families. Schools that seek affirmative action (and it is fairly rare and by law quite limited) have a goal of representing full racial, geographic and economic diversity of the US population--Asian Americans of all backgrounds, locations etc. included. That is allowed to be a limited goal. In this case, the thing that some schools are deciding is not to have solely a test or grade based meritocracy (esp. since tests aren't very predictive and grades can be subjective). And it can make sense even in a meritocracy (which the US is not): There is no universal truth that working really hard for an exam score tells you anything except that you will work really hard for an exam score. It's not some secret metric of merit. Likewise for grades. There IS no perfect measure of merit.

At varying times in US institutions there has been systematic discrimination against Asians, just as there has been at time systematic discrimination against Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, rural populations, urban populations, lower income people, Catholics, etc. Systematic discrimination on the basis of race is never fair and should be rooted out. But policies that make public goods more equitably accessible are fair even if it makes some people believe the school should values something different than they think it should value. If it's a public school, you vote to change policies. If it's a private school you go elsewhere (or challenge the policy in court if you think it's discriminatory).

[Anonymous]

Can we get back to where a kid with a B+ can get into college instead of arguing about Asians and African Americans?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

OP here again. Yes, thank you to the PP who got back to the question.

First mine is a DD from VA, small religiously affiliated school that never gets mentioned here. But, by all means let's let someone turn it into a foodfight. My DD isn't lazy but has had some mental health challenges. Smart, hardworking and got solid (I'd say, impressive B+ grades). Proud of her and just looking for advice. jeez.

[Anonymous]

My kid was like that. We had a wide list and lots of applications. Safeties were only those where over 75% both GPA and SAT. Reaches went way up, focusing on good fit. Think about what she’d like & find a range of competitive schools. For example, if she likes catholic colleges, apply to Norte Dame/Georgetown (depending on her interests), Villanova/Boston College and Marquette/DePaul. If you can find some EA or rolling schools, that really helps. We liked Miami of Ohio, heard early, and scholarships are very clearly spelled out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. Yes, thank you to the PP who got back to the question.

First mine is a DD from VA, small religiously affiliated school that never gets mentioned here. But, by all means let's let someone turn it into a foodfight. My DD isn't lazy but has had some mental health challenges. Smart, hardworking and got solid (I'd say, impressive B+ grades). Proud of her and just looking for advice. jeez.

OP I’m sorry this thread got hijacked. Just thought I’d mention that dd’s roommate in college went to the school I think you’re referring to and has done really well academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re generally better off with higher grades than SATs. The reverse signals laziness. UVA for example will not take a B+ student with a 1500.

The reverse signals learning disabilities.

My kid does great on standardized tests. 3 hrs of testing is easy but juggling all of the balls in the air at the same time for an entire school year is a challenge for a kid with ADHD.