What is the reason for the veterinary back up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My college age child is on a pre health path and is seriously considering vet school and has spoken with a number of vets over the past year. Without fail, every single one of them has told him not to go to vet school for three reasons. One, the pet owners are nightmares. Two, the insane debt he’d incur. Third, the abusive practices of many employers.

He still wants to go. I’m making it my mission to talk him out of it even though it breaks my heart.

I think you need to let him choose. You want the best for him, but you don’t want him to have regrets about not following the path he really wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My college age child is on a pre health path and is seriously considering vet school and has spoken with a number of vets over the past year. Without fail, every single one of them has told him not to go to vet school for three reasons. One, the pet owners are nightmares. Two, the insane debt he’d incur. Third, the abusive practices of many employers.

He still wants to go. I’m making it my mission to talk him out of it even though it breaks my heart.

Talk to more vets. Many love their jobs. This is a very bad time to be polling vets.
My dh is a vet and while it is very hard and he has had a terrible year, he adores his career as do most of his colleagues.
Let your son choose.

Also - I think if you talked to most people with post-grad degrees, they would give you the same line. Lots of debt, too little pay, etc etc etc. My human doc brother would say the same. Engineer sister also. Etc. etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college age child is on a pre health path and is seriously considering vet school and has spoken with a number of vets over the past year. Without fail, every single one of them has told him not to go to vet school for three reasons. One, the pet owners are nightmares. Two, the insane debt he’d incur. Third, the abusive practices of many employers.

He still wants to go. I’m making it my mission to talk him out of it even though it breaks my heart.

Talk to more vets. Many love their jobs. This is a very bad time to be polling vets.
My dh is a vet and while it is very hard and he has had a terrible year, he adores his career as do most of his colleagues.
Let your son choose.

Also - I think if you talked to most people with post-grad degrees, they would give you the same line. Lots of debt, too little pay, etc etc etc. My human doc brother would say the same. Engineer sister also. Etc. etc.

As a vet I roll my eyes HARD when MDs complain about their debt to income ratio. They have the same debt as I do but make at least twice what I do on average. Forget about surgeons etc.

New veterinarians have the same debt to income ratio as Social Workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college age child is on a pre health path and is seriously considering vet school and has spoken with a number of vets over the past year. Without fail, every single one of them has told him not to go to vet school for three reasons. One, the pet owners are nightmares. Two, the insane debt he’d incur. Third, the abusive practices of many employers.

He still wants to go. I’m making it my mission to talk him out of it even though it breaks my heart.

Talk to more vets. Many love their jobs. This is a very bad time to be polling vets.
My dh is a vet and while it is very hard and he has had a terrible year, he adores his career as do most of his colleagues.
Let your son choose.

Also - I think if you talked to most people with post-grad degrees, they would give you the same line. Lots of debt, too little pay, etc etc etc. My human doc brother would say the same. Engineer sister also. Etc. etc.

That's very nice in theory, but when did your DH graduate and how much debt did he have? And how much do you earn/family money do you have? The cold hard reality is, the average cost of in state vet school is about $200k, and closer to $275 for out of state. Federal student loans don't even begin to cover that amount (and the federal loans are not subsidized, so interest starts accruing as soon as you take out the loan). You can't really work while you are in vet school to defray the costs, and there aren't really grants and programs that will help pay those costs except maybe for a few categories of people that he doesn't fall into. Then after you graduate you are basically working as a resident for long hours and low pay (pretty much minimum wage if you average it out). So that's six years of opportunity cost where you aren't really earning any or much money. Then let's say you make a pretty decent starting salary of $80k a year -- that's what, a little under $5k a month after taxes? Say you have $250,000 in debt (could be more), that's roughly $2,500 a month in debt repayment, so that's half your salary right there. And, unlike some professions, your salary isn't going to go up significantly any time soon. To make more money you'll need to own your own practice (more debt to buy the practice). So you tell yourself you'll do the income contingent plan, which removes the immediate month to month pressure, but then you don't make a dent in your principle and the debt just snowballs and one day you are looking at your 17 year old getting ready to go off to college and wondering how you'll be able to afford that when you are still paying off your own loans. Forget luxuries like travel or cars or piano lessons for your kids or whatever -- you will be struggling to figure out how to pay the rent and afford daycare. And then on top of all that, dealing with the stressors of the work itself.

Even if you love what you do with every fiber of your being, this just isn't tenable. Trust me, I've done the math over and over and looked at it from all angles. There is "difficult but manageable" and then there is "this is an impossible financial breaking point" and to me the debt to income ration of becoming a veterinarian has crossed that threshold. The only people who can make this work have family support or marry well. He won't have the former and there is no guarantee of the latter. My son as smart and wonderful as he is, has no idea about the reality of any of this, and thinks everything will just "work out" and he will be "able to manage." As an adult who has the lived experience of managing real world finances, it is my job to make sure he understands the reality of this.

[Anonymous]

So. Tired. Cannot do it anymore. Seeing patients day after day that are refused by their own regular vet. Overwhelmed. Sad. Exhausted.

[Anonymous]

There should be state or federal programs that cover the cost of tuition in exchange for X number of years working at a city or county humane center animal hospital or clinic. Those hospitals could run at cost plus for people over a certain income level and be subsidized for low income people.

I live in an expensive area that also has a good number of retirees living on a fixed income. Many of these seniors have senior pets but can’t afford thousands and thousands of dollars when they take their pet in. They know that if their vet won’t see them because he’s booked out a month that the emergency vet will be a minimum of 900 dollars if the issue is easily treated and up to 10K if many tests and panels are run. They sadly don’t take their pet that they truly love in because they cant.

[Anonymous]

we need a new profession. The equivalent of a physician's assistant or nurse practitioner for pets. Triage them as they come into any animal clinic. the more routine cases go to the pet PA or NP. The more serious cases go to the vet. Similar to what happened with dentists and the. development o dental hygenists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college age child is on a pre health path and is seriously considering vet school and has spoken with a number of vets over the past year. Without fail, every single one of them has told him not to go to vet school for three reasons. One, the pet owners are nightmares. Two, the insane debt he’d incur. Third, the abusive practices of many employers.

He still wants to go. I’m making it my mission to talk him out of it even though it breaks my heart.

Talk to more vets. Many love their jobs. This is a very bad time to be polling vets.
My dh is a vet and while it is very hard and he has had a terrible year, he adores his career as do most of his colleagues.
Let your son choose.

Also - I think if you talked to most people with post-grad degrees, they would give you the same line. Lots of debt, too little pay, etc etc etc. My human doc brother would say the same. Engineer sister also. Etc. etc.

That's very nice in theory, but when did your DH graduate and how much debt did he have? And how much do you earn/family money do you have? The cold hard reality is, the average cost of in state vet school is about $200k, and closer to $275 for out of state. Federal student loans don't even begin to cover that amount (and the federal loans are not subsidized, so interest starts accruing as soon as you take out the loan). You can't really work while you are in vet school to defray the costs, and there aren't really grants and programs that will help pay those costs except maybe for a few categories of people that he doesn't fall into. Then after you graduate you are basically working as a resident for long hours and low pay (pretty much minimum wage if you average it out). So that's six years of opportunity cost where you aren't really earning any or much money. Then let's say you make a pretty decent starting salary of $80k a year -- that's what, a little under $5k a month after taxes? Say you have $250,000 in debt (could be more), that's roughly $2,500 a month in debt repayment, so that's half your salary right there. And, unlike some professions, your salary isn't going to go up significantly any time soon. To make more money you'll need to own your own practice (more debt to buy the practice). So you tell yourself you'll do the income contingent plan, which removes the immediate month to month pressure, but then you don't make a dent in your principle and the debt just snowballs and one day you are looking at your 17 year old getting ready to go off to college and wondering how you'll be able to afford that when you are still paying off your own loans. Forget luxuries like travel or cars or piano lessons for your kids or whatever -- you will be struggling to figure out how to pay the rent and afford daycare. And then on top of all that, dealing with the stressors of the work itself.

Even if you love what you do with every fiber of your being, this just isn't tenable. Trust me, I've done the math over and over and looked at it from all angles. There is "difficult but manageable" and then there is "this is an impossible financial breaking point" and to me the debt to income ration of becoming a veterinarian has crossed that threshold. The only people who can make this work have family support or marry well. He won't have the former and there is no guarantee of the latter. My son as smart and wonderful as he is, has no idea about the reality of any of this, and thinks everything will just "work out" and he will be "able to manage." As an adult who has the lived experience of managing real world finances, it is my job to make sure he understands the reality of this.

You need to do more research. The average vet does not make 80k per year in this area. Many vet practices are offering signing bonuses of 50k or more and starting salaries are over 100k. Our vet practice just offered a new grad $125k base with profit sharing and a signing bonus - they will easily make 150k their first year working 4 days a week. The vets are in the drivers seat in terms of being able to determine their salaries. And yes, salaries rise dramatically as their speed and proficiency improves because most are paid on some level of production. If they own their own practice, their salaries can rise even more dramatically if they understand business. We cleared seven figures last year for a three doctor practice paying much higher than average salaries, paying higher than average tech salaries and additional benefits such as student debt repayment and car stipends.
In state tuition at Virginia Tech (which is in state for MD and VA) is 20k a year. Even with living expenses, that is not 250k a year. Not even close.
There are additional issues associated with being a vet but if you are "doing the math", get a clear picture of the reality first and what you stated above isn't even close.