Do Wolfgang Puck waiters really make $120,000/year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they really make that much money, go see how few of their waiter staff are actually BIPOC (hint almost none of them).

👆

What kind of conclusion should we make based on this info?

BIPOC don’t have the opportunity to access wait jobs that earn $120k a year.

This. A lot of it is about "aesthetic" and perception, conscious or not. I've waited tables and found that you can basically do that Peter Griffin skin tone chart meme and see the lightest people front of house (servers and hosts and maitre d's) and the darkest people washing dishes and prep cooking, with line cooks and bussers toward the darker end and bartenders and higher-paid chefs toward the lighter. Obviously a generalization, but in the aggregate, still true.

And before anyone says "Oh, but the dishwashers are undocumented" or "those are the jobs they're qualified for" or whatever, I'm saying I've seen excellent servers of color not get the promotions they should, and BIPOC coming in applying for host/server jobs for which they're qualified and getting assigned to be bussers, and so on. "You look like an expo" (a kitchen position) vs a bartender-- that kind of thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's worth pointing out that you don't START as a waiter making $120k. It's a profession that requires skill, personality, stamina and seniority to make the big bucks. In my restaurant, almost everyone worked in the kitchen first, graduated to bussing tables, then started on lunch shifts and weekday dinner shifts. You usually didn't get to work weekend dinners until you'd been there awhile.

Skill? You are only required to be really good looking at the high end places. Oh and have the ability to memorize the menu and drink recommendations.

Waiting tables is absolutely a skill. As a person who is both clumsy and forgetful, it was never something I could do, so I worked at camps and regular retail instead in my teens and early 20s while my friends were servers.

Oh gd yes. I used to wait tables and I was awful at it. I was clumsy, forgetful, disorganized - I found it really hard to get all the things right that you need to do, to make your job look easy. Luckily I like to talk to people - briefly, one on one like that; introvert otherwise - so I had SOME moments that weren't the worst. But I think it is a hard job - physically and mentally. And would never begrudge someone earning a decent living doing it.

Waiting tables is not a skill. Everyone can (and has) waited tables in their 20's. If you can't remember everything you just jot it down on a piece of paper. At the high-end you are just dealing with more demanding customers who ask you for the same recommendations the Applebee's waiters are asked. Can I get you any drinks? Try the Chilean seabass special! You know a good Pinot goes well with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they really make that much money, go see how few of their waiter staff are actually BIPOC (hint almost none of them).

👆

What kind of conclusion should we make based on this info?

BIPOC don’t have the opportunity to access wait jobs that earn $120k a year.

This. A lot of it is about "aesthetic" and perception, conscious or not. I've waited tables and found that you can basically do that Peter Griffin skin tone chart meme and see the lightest people front of house (servers and hosts and maitre d's) and the darkest people washing dishes and prep cooking, with line cooks and bussers toward the darker end and bartenders and higher-paid chefs toward the lighter. Obviously a generalization, but in the aggregate, still true.

And before anyone says "Oh, but the dishwashers are undocumented" or "those are the jobs they're qualified for" or whatever, I'm saying I've seen excellent servers of color not get the promotions they should, and BIPOC coming in applying for host/server jobs for which they're qualified and getting assigned to be bussers, and so on. "You look like an expo" (a kitchen position) vs a bartender-- that kind of thing.

How many high-end restaurants are there owned by people of color? Can they only hire BIPOC people, or do you think the tips will dwindle?

[Anonymous]

That sounds high.

I worked at a very, very fancy restaurant known for it's white glove service about 10 years ago. The highest paid waitstaff (there were tiers), who had formal training in wine and food, who worked tons of hours, made about $80k a year, almost all of which was tips. And this was at a place where no guest is getting out for less than $100 a head, and that's without wine, plenty of people were spending four figures, and tipping 25-30% was the norm.

Getting that number up to $120k in 10 years seems high. I would guess he's rounding up, and the best paid wait staff is maxing out at closer to $90-100k, if that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's worth pointing out that you don't START as a waiter making $120k. It's a profession that requires skill, personality, stamina and seniority to make the big bucks. In my restaurant, almost everyone worked in the kitchen first, graduated to bussing tables, then started on lunch shifts and weekday dinner shifts. You usually didn't get to work weekend dinners until you'd been there awhile.

Skill? You are only required to be really good looking at the high end places. Oh and have the ability to memorize the menu and drink recommendations.

Waiting tables is absolutely a skill. As a person who is both clumsy and forgetful, it was never something I could do, so I worked at camps and regular retail instead in my teens and early 20s while my friends were servers.

Oh gd yes. I used to wait tables and I was awful at it. I was clumsy, forgetful, disorganized - I found it really hard to get all the things right that you need to do, to make your job look easy. Luckily I like to talk to people - briefly, one on one like that; introvert otherwise - so I had SOME moments that weren't the worst. But I think it is a hard job - physically and mentally. And would never begrudge someone earning a decent living doing it.

Waiting tables is not a skill. Everyone can (and has) waited tables in their 20's. If you can't remember everything you just jot it down on a piece of paper. At the high-end you are just dealing with more demanding customers who ask you for the same recommendations the Applebee's waiters are asked. Can I get you any drinks? Try the Chilean seabass special! You know a good Pinot goes well with that?

I'm the PP who wrote about having worked at a white glove service restaurant and you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Yes, that's what it takes to wait tables at Applebees. That is NOT what it takes to wait tables at a high end restaurant. And yes, if you're lucky, good at your job, and work your butt off you MIGHT make barely six figures - but even at a fancy place like where I worked, that's 10 people, and there are literally 100 more making way less than that. You have to take special wine classes, generally become either a certified sommelier or equivalent knowledge. You need to be prepared to answer IN DETAIL questions about wine from different regions, grapes, and years, discuss pros and cons, recommend pairings based on the food, the budget and the preferences of your table. You also need to be able to discuss the food and flavor profiles of it, sourcing, cuts and types of meat, spices, again, in detail. A lead waiter in a high end restaurant is an incredibly skilled position.

And for all those people doing back of the napkin math of "well, I tipped $100 and there were four other tables doing that, so they could easily make $120k," you also have no idea what you're talking about. Especially at fancy places, you're tipping out a whole TEAM. At our restaurant, you had the waiter you probably recognized as your waiter. Well, you also had two other waiters assigned to you, that just registered as "cocktail waitress" or "busboy" plus we had to tip out dishwashing and other back of the house staff. At our restaurant, tips were split 40/30/20/10 - 40% to the captain (head waiter), 30% to the front waiter, 20% to the back waiter, and 10% to the back of the house. So the person you perceive as your waiter is getting 40% of your tip. Plus - yes, you can make bank on Friday and Saturday nights. But you're also covering Tuesday lunch shifts. It all has to average out - there's only two weekend dinner shifts a week, folks, and most people are working 6-10 shifts a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's worth pointing out that you don't START as a waiter making $120k. It's a profession that requires skill, personality, stamina and seniority to make the big bucks. In my restaurant, almost everyone worked in the kitchen first, graduated to bussing tables, then started on lunch shifts and weekday dinner shifts. You usually didn't get to work weekend dinners until you'd been there awhile.

Skill? You are only required to be really good looking at the high end places. Oh and have the ability to memorize the menu and drink recommendations.

Waiting tables is absolutely a skill. As a person who is both clumsy and forgetful, it was never something I could do, so I worked at camps and regular retail instead in my teens and early 20s while my friends were servers.

Oh gd yes. I used to wait tables and I was awful at it. I was clumsy, forgetful, disorganized - I found it really hard to get all the things right that you need to do, to make your job look easy. Luckily I like to talk to people - briefly, one on one like that; introvert otherwise - so I had SOME moments that weren't the worst. But I think it is a hard job - physically and mentally. And would never begrudge someone earning a decent living doing it.

Waiting tables is not a skill. Everyone can (and has) waited tables in their 20's. If you can't remember everything you just jot it down on a piece of paper. At the high-end you are just dealing with more demanding customers who ask you for the same recommendations the Applebee's waiters are asked. Can I get you any drinks? Try the Chilean seabass special! You know a good Pinot goes well with that?

I'm the PP who wrote about having worked at a white glove service restaurant and you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Yes, that's what it takes to wait tables at Applebees. That is NOT what it takes to wait tables at a high end restaurant. And yes, if you're lucky, good at your job, and work your butt off you MIGHT make barely six figures - but even at a fancy place like where I worked, that's 10 people, and there are literally 100 more making way less than that. You have to take special wine classes, generally become either a certified sommelier or equivalent knowledge. You need to be prepared to answer IN DETAIL questions about wine from different regions, grapes, and years, discuss pros and cons, recommend pairings based on the food, the budget and the preferences of your table. You also need to be able to discuss the food and flavor profiles of it, sourcing, cuts and types of meat, spices, again, in detail. A lead waiter in a high end restaurant is an incredibly skilled position.

And for all those people doing back of the napkin math of "well, I tipped $100 and there were four other tables doing that, so they could easily make $120k," you also have no idea what you're talking about. Especially at fancy places, you're tipping out a whole TEAM. At our restaurant, you had the waiter you probably recognized as your waiter. Well, you also had two other waiters assigned to you, that just registered as "cocktail waitress" or "busboy" plus we had to tip out dishwashing and other back of the house staff. At our restaurant, tips were split 40/30/20/10 - 40% to the captain (head waiter), 30% to the front waiter, 20% to the back waiter, and 10% to the back of the house. So the person you perceive as your waiter is getting 40% of your tip. Plus - yes, you can make bank on Friday and Saturday nights. But you're also covering Tuesday lunch shifts. It all has to average out - there's only two weekend dinner shifts a week, folks, and most people are working 6-10 shifts a week.

What a sad profession. I can't imagine having so many hands out for my money. What does a "captain" even do for you? Provide motivational speeches at start of shift?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's worth pointing out that you don't START as a waiter making $120k. It's a profession that requires skill, personality, stamina and seniority to make the big bucks. In my restaurant, almost everyone worked in the kitchen first, graduated to bussing tables, then started on lunch shifts and weekday dinner shifts. You usually didn't get to work weekend dinners until you'd been there awhile.

Skill? You are only required to be really good looking at the high end places. Oh and have the ability to memorize the menu and drink recommendations.

Waiting tables is absolutely a skill. As a person who is both clumsy and forgetful, it was never something I could do, so I worked at camps and regular retail instead in my teens and early 20s while my friends were servers.

Oh gd yes. I used to wait tables and I was awful at it. I was clumsy, forgetful, disorganized - I found it really hard to get all the things right that you need to do, to make your job look easy. Luckily I like to talk to people - briefly, one on one like that; introvert otherwise - so I had SOME moments that weren't the worst. But I think it is a hard job - physically and mentally. And would never begrudge someone earning a decent living doing it.

Waiting tables is not a skill. Everyone can (and has) waited tables in their 20's. If you can't remember everything you just jot it down on a piece of paper. At the high-end you are just dealing with more demanding customers who ask you for the same recommendations the Applebee's waiters are asked. Can I get you any drinks? Try the Chilean seabass special! You know a good Pinot goes well with that?

I'm the PP who wrote about having worked at a white glove service restaurant and you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Yes, that's what it takes to wait tables at Applebees. That is NOT what it takes to wait tables at a high end restaurant. And yes, if you're lucky, good at your job, and work your butt off you MIGHT make barely six figures - but even at a fancy place like where I worked, that's 10 people, and there are literally 100 more making way less than that. You have to take special wine classes, generally become either a certified sommelier or equivalent knowledge. You need to be prepared to answer IN DETAIL questions about wine from different regions, grapes, and years, discuss pros and cons, recommend pairings based on the food, the budget and the preferences of your table. You also need to be able to discuss the food and flavor profiles of it, sourcing, cuts and types of meat, spices, again, in detail. A lead waiter in a high end restaurant is an incredibly skilled position.

And for all those people doing back of the napkin math of "well, I tipped $100 and there were four other tables doing that, so they could easily make $120k," you also have no idea what you're talking about. Especially at fancy places, you're tipping out a whole TEAM. At our restaurant, you had the waiter you probably recognized as your waiter. Well, you also had two other waiters assigned to you, that just registered as "cocktail waitress" or "busboy" plus we had to tip out dishwashing and other back of the house staff. At our restaurant, tips were split 40/30/20/10 - 40% to the captain (head waiter), 30% to the front waiter, 20% to the back waiter, and 10% to the back of the house. So the person you perceive as your waiter is getting 40% of your tip. Plus - yes, you can make bank on Friday and Saturday nights. But you're also covering Tuesday lunch shifts. It all has to average out - there's only two weekend dinner shifts a week, folks, and most people are working 6-10 shifts a week.

What a sad profession. I can't imagine having so many hands out for my money. What does a "captain" even do for you? Provide motivational speeches at start of shift?

PP here - your misreading me. The captain, from the customer's perspective, is the person you're actually giving the tip to - your head waiter. The one who greets you, who's name you know, who hands you menus, who takes your order, who hands you the bill, etc. But they're only getting 40% of the tip. Because the other people (front waiter, back waiter, back of the house staff) are splitting up the other 60%. At our restaurant (I'm sure this varies dramatically at different places) front waiters take primary responsibility for drinks and back waiters do water/bread/bussing (though there's a bit more nuance, that's the general idea).

[Anonymous]

My sister works 4 days at a high end resort, and makes about $80K per year. The top tier restaurants at similar resort easily make $500-$800/night.

Fine dining servers usually have decades of experience, and the ability to manage the flow of the restaurant. Many have managed restaurants before, but prefer the money and interaction of serving. At its most basic level, it’s a sales job. Some succeed, and others can’t handle it. There is a lot of knowledge and skill involved, even if some PPs are in denial.

If you think fine dining servers make too much money, eat at TGI Fridays and Denny’s. Save the fine dining for those of us who appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recently my hairdresser quit her day job because she was making $3000 per night as a cocktail waitress. And yes, she was only serving drinks, no "extras".

She is a liar.

[Anonymous]

For the record, I never worked retail or restaurant

[Anonymous]

That my pet peeve, why should tipping by on the cost, does it take more effort to serve a 2000 bottle of wine than 20? no it doesn't, same with food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That my pet peeve, why should tipping by on the cost, does it take more effort to serve a 2000 bottle of wine than 20? no it doesn't, same with food.

You are quite wrong. Which makes you eligible for only the 20 dollar wine. The 200 would be wasted on you. Ain't just the same MD 2020 with a cork.

[Anonymous]

My cousin is a teacher and works as a waitress during the summer. She'll also pick up some shifts during the school year on weekends or breaks if the owner & GM is in a pinch, but she tries not to because it has caused "issues" at work in the past.

Only in the DMV would parents be upset to be sat at a table and be waited on by their child's teacher.

Anyway, without working all summer and saving that money for years, she wouldn't have been able to afford a house on her own. Now, she rents out rooms in the house and pays the mortgage that way. She's been saving up her summer earnings the past few years to buy another piece of property to be another rental unit.

She said she makes around $200-300 Mon-Thur and then $400-600 Fri-Sun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That my pet peeve, why should tipping by on the cost, does it take more effort to serve a 2000 bottle of wine than 20? no it doesn't, same with food.

Bring your own $$$$ bottle of wine and pay the corking fee.