Country Club Members, Is It Worth It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say worth it is not really the right way to think about it. You have to weigh whether you want the majority of your social interactions to be with the same relatively homogeneous group of people. If you don't like the idea of going to the same place for most socializing and meals out, then a country club membership will not be "worth" it. Or, if you end up at a club where you don't make friends with many people, you might spend less time there and you will get less value from it.

Many families truly build their entire social stratosphere around their club. They work out, play, dine, swim, golf, play tennis, send kids to camp etc all at the club. It is a home away from home for some. Some people value that experience and find it worth the cost, others do not. My husband would find that suffocating, though I think I would enjoy many aspects.

Another thing to consider - that most CC members chafe at, but I have found it to be true when I have visited clubs throughout the region as a guest - these clubs are all incredibly white and homogenous. Sure, there may be some Episcopalians among the Catholics at one club or another where there are other minor differences, and the occasional spouse that is not white; but these are places that you join if you have no discomfort at all with living in an entirely white, exclusive community, that has a long history of ugly discrimination and exclusion that is still alive and well (a club having 5 Black members is not a welcoming and diverse place).

You join if you are comfortable with the vast majority of your child's social group to be people who look just like them because you are not concerned with them having a diverse peer group. Sending your child to a school that is diverse is not enough. Who you choose to bring into your home and spend the majority of your time with is who you are saying you value the most. This is not about having a woke, SJW mentality as a requirement for being a good person, but in general, I find that in 2021, the people who choose to surround themselves and their families in such bubbles as their primary social outlet, no matter their political stripes, tend to be those who are less concerned with such things.

Country Clubs by definition are places of exclusion. They are private. There is a chicken and egg problem at most country clubs on diversity. Most do not care who joins brown, black, anything else. But potential candidates are uncomfortable with the lack of diversity. That has what stopped two of my diverse biglaw partners from joining my club. They had some level of interest, could afford it but decided it was not for them. It will be a slow process for most clubs. They need to keep trying and some clubs that are relentless about it have had some gains.

Really? Which ones?

All. This is a focus of every major club. results will be one offs for a long time for the reasons stated above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, what are average initiation fees like

Anywhere from $10k to $100k+

If you are older than 30 and married, likely north of $50,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Country clubs are for the socially insecure (don’t have and can’t make friends) or status conscious people.

+1. Not a popular but very accurate statement. It’s a social club - but you pay to enter.

You're paying for facilities that are not otherwise available, regardless of your willingness to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say worth it is not really the right way to think about it. You have to weigh whether you want the majority of your social interactions to be with the same relatively homogeneous group of people. If you don't like the idea of going to the same place for most socializing and meals out, then a country club membership will not be "worth" it. Or, if you end up at a club where you don't make friends with many people, you might spend less time there and you will get less value from it.

Many families truly build their entire social stratosphere around their club. They work out, play, dine, swim, golf, play tennis, send kids to camp etc all at the club. It is a home away from home for some. Some people value that experience and find it worth the cost, others do not. My husband would find that suffocating, though I think I would enjoy many aspects.

Another thing to consider - that most CC members chafe at, but I have found it to be true when I have visited clubs throughout the region as a guest - these clubs are all incredibly white and homogenous. Sure, there may be some Episcopalians among the Catholics at one club or another where there are other minor differences, and the occasional spouse that is not white; but these are places that you join if you have no discomfort at all with living in an entirely white, exclusive community, that has a long history of ugly discrimination and exclusion that is still alive and well (a club having 5 Black members is not a welcoming and diverse place).

You join if you are comfortable with the vast majority of your child's social group to be people who look just like them because you are not concerned with them having a diverse peer group. Sending your child to a school that is diverse is not enough. Who you choose to bring into your home and spend the majority of your time with is who you are saying you value the most. This is not about having a woke, SJW mentality as a requirement for being a good person, but in general, I find that in 2021, the people who choose to surround themselves and their families in such bubbles as their primary social outlet, no matter their political stripes, tend to be those who are less concerned with such things.

I get your point but I also feel like whenever there’s talk about people confining themselves to homogeneous situations, the onus is always on white Christians to avoid doing so or feel guilty for doing so. There are plenty of groups of POC who don’t chose to intermingle with other races or backgrounds and no one blinks an eye.

To be clear, I think diversity is good and needed but I also think there’s a double standard on this.

This is not called a double standard. White Christians in America are the ones who created this problem. We wouldn't be dealing with this if your people were't so awful. Hence, you are the ones who need to fix it. POC can't fix it. We couldn't get into your clubs, so we had to create our own things. And now, because we had to create our own things because you were racist and evil, you get to claim double standard? Nope. That's not how this works. Well, that is how your blame avoidance logic works. Your response is whiteness in action. Nothing is your fault, you aren't culpable for your role in upholding white supremacy, you are just out here living your lives, not being racist to anyone, right? Just going to your country club and saying, well, the Blacks and Jews have their own clubs now, so it's all fine, they could be members here IF they wanted to be, we aren't preventing them from joining (anymore), so it has just become a sorting hat kind of thing, nothing to see here, nothing to worry about, we're post racial now, oh look, there is James, our one Black member, phew, see? We are definitely not racist and exclusionary.

So what is the solution? You have correctly identified a problem. What is your solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have kids, definitely join! What else are you going to do with your time and money?

Travel

[Anonymous]

What’s it like to be rich without kids? Do you want kids one day or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have kids, definitely join! What else are you going to do with your time and money?

Travel

So good point. But many country club members own a second and/or third home and travel there and travel elsewhere too. You have to use it but you also have to be making enough that it does not control your life. In DC I would not join a higher end club with under 500k in income unless you have lower income and just rich. Big caveat on this -- there is not one kind of club. My comment above is high end. There are clubs in the middle and clubs that are way cheaper. Different story for those clubs. A PP had said joining fee was 10-100k depending on club. At the higher end, I have not seen 100k for a while. My club is at least 125 and it may be higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have kids, definitely join! What else are you going to do with your time and money?

Travel

So good point. But many country club members own a second and/or third home and travel there and travel elsewhere too. You have to use it but you also have to be making enough that it does not control your life. In DC I would not join a higher end club with under 500k in income unless you have lower income and just rich. Big caveat on this -- there is not one kind of club. My comment above is high end. There are clubs in the middle and clubs that are way cheaper. Different story for those clubs. A PP had said joining fee was 10-100k depending on club. At the higher end, I have not seen 100k for a while. My club is at least 125 and it may be higher.

125k just to join? And then annual dues on top of that? What do those go for? People upthread have said it is worth it because it costs just as much to play on public courses if you play a lot. Can't see how that could possibly be true.

[Anonymous]

Agree with prior post. Look at your entire budget. Make sure you have the money for your family needs including home, medical, education, retirement, travel and then the club, if there is a remainder. You will regret it if you can’t live the life that your family wants. We do all the above and would never consider a membership at the top 3 country clubs in DC. We are not interested in a $150,000 initiation fee plus the monthly expenses and we play a lot of golf. You could pay less and take your family on some memorable trips. Also, most clubs are fairly empty during the summer as so many travel extensively. Good luck in finding what is best for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say worth it is not really the right way to think about it. You have to weigh whether you want the majority of your social interactions to be with the same relatively homogeneous group of people. If you don't like the idea of going to the same place for most socializing and meals out, then a country club membership will not be "worth" it. Or, if you end up at a club where you don't make friends with many people, you might spend less time there and you will get less value from it.

Many families truly build their entire social stratosphere around their club. They work out, play, dine, swim, golf, play tennis, send kids to camp etc all at the club. It is a home away from home for some. Some people value that experience and find it worth the cost, others do not. My husband would find that suffocating, though I think I would enjoy many aspects.

Another thing to consider - that most CC members chafe at, but I have found it to be true when I have visited clubs throughout the region as a guest - these clubs are all incredibly white and homogenous. Sure, there may be some Episcopalians among the Catholics at one club or another where there are other minor differences, and the occasional spouse that is not white; but these are places that you join if you have no discomfort at all with living in an entirely white, exclusive community, that has a long history of ugly discrimination and exclusion that is still alive and well (a club having 5 Black members is not a welcoming and diverse place).

You join if you are comfortable with the vast majority of your child's social group to be people who look just like them because you are not concerned with them having a diverse peer group. Sending your child to a school that is diverse is not enough. Who you choose to bring into your home and spend the majority of your time with is who you are saying you value the most. This is not about having a woke, SJW mentality as a requirement for being a good person, but in general, I find that in 2021, the people who choose to surround themselves and their families in such bubbles as their primary social outlet, no matter their political stripes, tend to be those who are less concerned with such things.

I get your point but I also feel like whenever there’s talk about people confining themselves to homogeneous situations, the onus is always on white Christians to avoid doing so or feel guilty for doing so. There are plenty of groups of POC who don’t chose to intermingle with other races or backgrounds and no one blinks an eye.

To be clear, I think diversity is good and needed but I also think there’s a double standard on this.

This is not called a double standard. White Christians in America are the ones who created this problem. We wouldn't be dealing with this if your people were't so awful. Hence, you are the ones who need to fix it. POC can't fix it. We couldn't get into your clubs, so we had to create our own things. And now, because we had to create our own things because you were racist and evil, you get to claim double standard? Nope. That's not how this works. Well, that is how your blame avoidance logic works. Your response is whiteness in action. Nothing is your fault, you aren't culpable for your role in upholding white supremacy, you are just out here living your lives, not being racist to anyone, right? Just going to your country club and saying, well, the Blacks and Jews have their own clubs now, so it's all fine, they could be members here IF they wanted to be, we aren't preventing them from joining (anymore), so it has just become a sorting hat kind of thing, nothing to see here, nothing to worry about, we're post racial now, oh look, there is James, our one Black member, phew, see? We are definitely not racist and exclusionary.

+1000

-1000

PP was not talking only about clubs. We all have friends or know people who do not socialize with white people or have white friends (outside of work). By choice. I can definitely see where it's harder for someone white to meet and befriend a POC than vice versa because we actually are a..wait for it...minority. Law of averages alone. Of course I meet more white women than they meet me or people like me.

[Anonymous]

Country clubs are on the their way out. Pleasures of a bygone eta no longer practical nor politically correct. This is the next racial institution to bust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have kids, definitely join! What else are you going to do with your time and money?

Travel

So good point. But many country club members own a second and/or third home and travel there and travel elsewhere too. You have to use it but you also have to be making enough that it does not control your life. In DC I would not join a higher end club with under 500k in income unless you have lower income and just rich. Big caveat on this -- there is not one kind of club. My comment above is high end. There are clubs in the middle and clubs that are way cheaper. Different story for those clubs. A PP had said joining fee was 10-100k depending on club. At the higher end, I have not seen 100k for a while. My club is at least 125 and it may be higher.

125k just to join? And then annual dues on top of that? What do those go for? People upthread have said it is worth it because it costs just as much to play on public courses if you play a lot. Can't see how that could possibly be true.

Nobody has ever saved money by joining a country club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are social members and use ours daily in the summer (pool and swim team). many of our friends are also members, and it is nice to sit around the pool with a drink and socialize while our kids play together.

I used to think it was such a hoity-toity thing because I grew up poor, but it basically replaces summer camps and is more affordable than camp after camp after camp actually.

We rarely eat there outside the pool grill. Usually 4th of July, Mother's Day, and then some random takeout to meet our minimums in fall/winter.

It's definitely a kids thing, though.

But don't you have a monthly meal cost regardless of whether you eat at the CC? So, either way you're paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say worth it is not really the right way to think about it. You have to weigh whether you want the majority of your social interactions to be with the same relatively homogeneous group of people. If you don't like the idea of going to the same place for most socializing and meals out, then a country club membership will not be "worth" it. Or, if you end up at a club where you don't make friends with many people, you might spend less time there and you will get less value from it.

Many families truly build their entire social stratosphere around their club. They work out, play, dine, swim, golf, play tennis, send kids to camp etc all at the club. It is a home away from home for some. Some people value that experience and find it worth the cost, others do not. My husband would find that suffocating, though I think I would enjoy many aspects.

Another thing to consider - that most CC members chafe at, but I have found it to be true when I have visited clubs throughout the region as a guest - these clubs are all incredibly white and homogenous. Sure, there may be some Episcopalians among the Catholics at one club or another where there are other minor differences, and the occasional spouse that is not white; but these are places that you join if you have no discomfort at all with living in an entirely white, exclusive community, that has a long history of ugly discrimination and exclusion that is still alive and well (a club having 5 Black members is not a welcoming and diverse place).

You join if you are comfortable with the vast majority of your child's social group to be people who look just like them because you are not concerned with them having a diverse peer group. Sending your child to a school that is diverse is not enough. Who you choose to bring into your home and spend the majority of your time with is who you are saying you value the most. This is not about having a woke, SJW mentality as a requirement for being a good person, but in general, I find that in 2021, the people who choose to surround themselves and their families in such bubbles as their primary social outlet, no matter their political stripes, tend to be those who are less concerned with such things.

To be fair, the help is black or Latino, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is not called a double standard. White Christians in America are the ones who created this problem. We wouldn't be dealing with this if your people were't so awful. Hence, you are the ones who need to fix it. POC can't fix it. We couldn't get into your clubs, so we had to create our own things. And now, because we had to create our own things because you were racist and evil, you get to claim double standard? Nope. That's not how this works. Well, that is how your blame avoidance logic works. Your response is whiteness in action. Nothing is your fault, you aren't culpable for your role in upholding white supremacy, you are just out here living your lives, not being racist to anyone, right? Just going to your country club and saying, well, the Blacks and Jews have their own clubs now, so it's all fine, they could be members here IF they wanted to be, we aren't preventing them from joining (anymore), so it has just become a sorting hat kind of thing, nothing to see here, nothing to worry about, we're post racial now, oh look, there is James, our one Black member, phew, see? We are definitely not racist and exclusionary.

+1619