Why is SWS so white?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

And?

60% white is a low pct

60% of anything is not really diverse. 60% is a clear majority that can flex its power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

Was your kid is truly testing behind? Or they were on grade level and you felt like you had to push more?

If my kid is learning grade appropriate topics AND testing at or above grade level on standardized tests (which they are), I'm good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

And?

60% white is a low pct

60% of anything is not really diverse. 60% is a clear majority that can flex its power.

So when a school is 60% AA, are they flexing their power? Or is that only something white people are able to do at 60%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bump. Are the new incoming grades getting any better?

Interesting choice of words

Uh… SWS isn’t located in a 75% black neighborhood.

No, but it’s an “all city” school (no in-bound preference) and is centrally located on the east side of DC, which is majority black. While the surrounding neighborhood isn’t majority black, it also has other good school options to serve neighborhood families. Whereas many families in Wards 5, 7, and 8 are looking for alternatives to failing IB schools.

Just in comparison, more black families choose to lottery for CHMS or out of bounds for JO Wilson (both in Ward 6) than seem to choose SWS. It does feel anomalous that SWS is available to all DC families but seems to have a self-selecting population that skews white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

And?

60% white is a low pct

60% of anything is not really diverse. 60% is a clear majority that can flex its power.

So when a school is 60% AA, are they flexing their power? Or is that only something white people are able to do at 60%?

Ugh. And that's why SWS created that white affinity group for people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

What a condescending bunch of BS. So does that mean you also don't get to judge the food at a restaurant because you're not a professional chef? Please don't belittle parents when it's plain to see that the academics are not that hot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

What a condescending bunch of BS. So does that mean you also don't get to judge the food at a restaurant because you're not a professional chef? Please don't belittle parents when it's plain to see that the academics are not that hot.

Yes, we all know when food tastes good and when it doesn't. This is not the same. You don't like the way your child is taught math; that's different than it being taught poorly or incorrectly.

Also, using a standard of "hot or not that hot" is more fitting for MySpace that educational evaluatoon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

+1. FWIW, DH and I had different school experiences (one of us went to a fancy private, ond of us went to a public in a good suburban area). We are both continually amazed that our kids are learning topics earlier than we did including writing structure and how to research a topic and present it. Writing was all creative writing until fifth when we had a first research project. Grammar wasn't specifically covered till middle school and substantially in highschool.

There is a type A, pressure cooker, mentality specific to DCUM - and perhaps this area - that can make it difficult to take some of the "sky is falling" posts seriously. That doesn't mean I think DCPS is all fantastic either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

What a condescending bunch of BS. So does that mean you also don't get to judge the food at a restaurant because you're not a professional chef? Please don't belittle parents when it's plain to see that the academics are not that hot.

Yes, we all know when food tastes good and when it doesn't. This is not the same. You don't like the way your child is taught math; that's different than it being taught poorly or incorrectly.

Also, using a standard of "hot or not that hot" is more fitting for MySpace that educational evaluatoon

You keep lecturing parents how stupid we are and then wonder why teachers unions have lost so much public goodwill in recent years.

When my child comes home and says that 1+1=3, am I seriously supposed to pretend that I'm too ignorant to see the academic deficiencies staring right in my face?! Am I also supposed to pretend the low standardized test scores are all wrong and that only the teachers know best?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

What a condescending bunch of BS. So does that mean you also don't get to judge the food at a restaurant because you're not a professional chef? Please don't belittle parents when it's plain to see that the academics are not that hot.

Yes, we all know when food tastes good and when it doesn't. This is not the same. You don't like the way your child is taught math; that's different than it being taught poorly or incorrectly.

Also, using a standard of "hot or not that hot" is more fitting for MySpace that educational evaluatoon

You keep lecturing parents how stupid we are and then wonder why teachers unions have lost so much public goodwill in recent years.

When my child comes home and says that 1+1=3, am I seriously supposed to pretend that I'm too ignorant to see the academic deficiencies staring right in my face?! Am I also supposed to pretend the low standardized test scores are all wrong and that only the teachers know best?

When your upper ES student comes back and tells you 1+1=3 report back

What do you mean when you say low overall test scores? Are you talking about the fact that not all students are testing on grade level? Because, as a teacher who inherited a class with students as low as K/1 in fifth grade this year, I know that's not a legitimate standard to measure my effectiveness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps, but Washington Teachers Union's opposition to elementary school re-openings for two years during the pandemic certainly didn't help, and SWS' middling academic program hasn't improve matters. These days, SWS students are routinely are given good grades in math and ELA although they work a year or more behind grade level. I've heard similar stories about Brent, and Maury and Ludlow to a lesser extent. UMC Hill parents run to tutors more than my suburban friends with ES-age kids seem to. Parents who fuss about how white the school is are missing the forest for the trees. Shaky DCPS ES academics are a problem dwarfing mild racial imbalances.

? Not a teacher, but where does this assertion come from? When I look at what topics my kid has learned this year - in math at least, every single topic is on the Khan topic list for that grade. Doesn't seem like Khan lists anything additional either that wasn't covered. The school covered appropriate grade level math (with periodic standardized assessments like iready plus unit based quizzes)

The math instruction at SWS just isn't too hot. Great in theory, not so much in practice. Writing instruction is far worse. We meet SWS pals at Mathnasium. We hire a writing tutor with SWS buddies. Go into the upper grades with your eyes open, folks.

As a teacher, it's wild that parents think they can make assertions like this without being experts in the work. It's analogous to me saying that the widget production at your work isn't that hot, despite actually meeting all industry standards

What a condescending bunch of BS. So does that mean you also don't get to judge the food at a restaurant because you're not a professional chef? Please don't belittle parents when it's plain to see that the academics are not that hot.

Yes, we all know when food tastes good and when it doesn't. This is not the same. You don't like the way your child is taught math; that's different than it being taught poorly or incorrectly.

Also, using a standard of "hot or not that hot" is more fitting for MySpace that educational evaluatoon

You keep lecturing parents how stupid we are and then wonder why teachers unions have lost so much public goodwill in recent years.

When my child comes home and says that 1+1=3, am I seriously supposed to pretend that I'm too ignorant to see the academic deficiencies staring right in my face?! Am I also supposed to pretend the low standardized test scores are all wrong and that only the teachers know best?

When your upper ES student comes back and tells you 1+1=3 report back

What do you mean when you say low overall test scores? Are you talking about the fact that not all students are testing on grade level? Because, as a teacher who inherited a class with students as low as K/1 in fifth grade this year, I know that's not a legitimate standard to measure my effectiveness.

I want to add, nobody is calling you or any parent stupid. You chose to call out teachers for bad instruction and are now upset that they are defending themselves.