Why is SWS so white?

[Anonymous]

SWS parents must have better things to worry about. The middling academics are the real problem, not the whiteness. It's not a lily white school, not by a long shot. Hill DCPS ES parents who pay $350/month for Mathnasium get strong math instruction. Hill DCPS ES parents who pay writing top tutors get strong writing instruction. If SWS focused far more on academics and less on fun and inclusion, the families would be much better off. These observations come from a POC (parent of color) whose had kids have percolated in DCPS schools for a decade. We supplemented so much post Covid in the upper grades that we might as well have paid for St. Peter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOC here - My kids are older now so my experience is admittedly dated, but I toured SWS during open house season when my oldest was entering PK3. I recall feeling very out of place and unwelcome among the parent crowd and had zero interest in applying afterwards. I talked to another friend who is a WOC and she had a similar cold feeling during her visit and didn’t even bother to finish the tour.

In the years since, my DC have played on sports teams and had other activities with kids from SWS and they and their families are all very lovely and nice people. We’ve also become friends with another minority family that attends SWS and they rave about the school as well. I am willing to chalk my experience up to a bad first impression.

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I'm also a POC, and whenever I find people "cold" at first impression, especially people who are "different" in some way, I don't discount the possibility that some of it comes from my own projections and insecurities, or that some people are just introverted and take longer to get to know, or that it's just a stressful situation and people just didn't happen to be in the mood to chat or be especially friendly. Or that people with good intentions just have discomfort with people who are "different" at first and it's very human to have to take time with that. I'm glad you got the chance to get a second impression.

White mom here. Another factor is that I think SWS has a really strong “in-group” ethos with respect to their program with the atelier etc etc. I’ve dealt with SWS power parents on some neighborhood issues, and let me just say, they have a STRONG sense of their own specialness. Because the school is so popular they likely also feel no need to be welcoming during open houses. So you were probably feeling that vibe (which could also be mixed with race). I will also say that there always appears to be an inverse relationship between how much people espouse a “wonderful child-centered program!!!” and their warmth/flexibility ....

I think this is less true as the original families age out. I remember hearing about the strong “in-crowd” when I first started SWS, and I did see it at older grades, but not so at younger grades. I think this is because the earlier families were very close since they essentially were starting a new school together and fighting common causes. I don’t think they were purposely leaving people out. Again, I think this is NOT the case anymore.

Different WOC here. This is completely false. We got in, and really considered it due to the proximity of our (then) home. However, I met enough parents that I knew we were not a good fit. Our family values strong academics and morals, not a lot of performative anti racism while mysteriously never been invited for play dates. No thanks. Also the “prom” was a major turn off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long time former sws parent. The old cliquey crowd has almost phased out. Yes, they were pretty terrible. Kids are happy but there is no focus or emphasis on academic achievement. If you have the resources to supplement heavily or you are fine with middling academics it is a lovely place with nice kids and more diverse than most of NW.

This feels fair to me. We got a spot for both kids, but ultimately turned them down in favor of another school with stronger academics. I am a POC, and I didn’t want my kids to be “the only” in every class.

I also think it’s not fair to discount the wonderful sped program they have at SWS.

I don’t think they have a wonderful SpEd program anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOC here - My kids are older now so my experience is admittedly dated, but I toured SWS during open house season when my oldest was entering PK3. I recall feeling very out of place and unwelcome among the parent crowd and had zero interest in applying afterwards. I talked to another friend who is a WOC and she had a similar cold feeling during her visit and didn’t even bother to finish the tour.

In the years since, my DC have played on sports teams and had other activities with kids from SWS and they and their families are all very lovely and nice people. We’ve also become friends with another minority family that attends SWS and they rave about the school as well. I am willing to chalk my experience up to a bad first impression.

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I'm also a POC, and whenever I find people "cold" at first impression, especially people who are "different" in some way, I don't discount the possibility that some of it comes from my own projections and insecurities, or that some people are just introverted and take longer to get to know, or that it's just a stressful situation and people just didn't happen to be in the mood to chat or be especially friendly. Or that people with good intentions just have discomfort with people who are "different" at first and it's very human to have to take time with that. I'm glad you got the chance to get a second impression.

White mom here. Another factor is that I think SWS has a really strong “in-group” ethos with respect to their program with the atelier etc etc. I’ve dealt with SWS power parents on some neighborhood issues, and let me just say, they have a STRONG sense of their own specialness. Because the school is so popular they likely also feel no need to be welcoming during open houses. So you were probably feeling that vibe (which could also be mixed with race). I will also say that there always appears to be an inverse relationship between how much people espouse a “wonderful child-centered program!!!” and their warmth/flexibility ....

I think this is less true as the original families age out. I remember hearing about the strong “in-crowd” when I first started SWS, and I did see it at older grades, but not so at younger grades. I think this is because the earlier families were very close since they essentially were starting a new school together and fighting common causes. I don’t think they were purposely leaving people out. Again, I think this is NOT the case anymore.

Different WOC here. This is completely false. We got in, and really considered it due to the proximity of our (then) home. However, I met enough parents that I knew we were not a good fit. Our family values strong academics and morals, not a lot of performative anti racism while mysteriously never been invited for play dates. No thanks. Also the “prom” was a major turn off.

Agree. Kids at that age are way too young to have to worry about "prom" and finding dates.

[Anonymous]

Funny to see this thread pop-up in Recent Topics -- I'm the original OP. At the time I posted this, we were deep in the PK3 lottery process and trying to figure out what schools we were going to list and in what order.

It of course didn't matter because we didn't get into SWS (and didn't rank it first even though I am drawn to the Reggio approach to elementary education, and especially ECE). There's no perfect school and I think there are aspects of SWS we would have loved, but also aspects we wouldn't have liked, including a parent culture that sounds like it can be a bit like a fishbowl. I'm happy to blend into the background a bit more at our school (our IB DCPS). I do appreciate how diverse our school is, not just racially but socioeconomically. I went to highly diverse public schools like this growing up and I think it was really good for me, so I'm glad my kid is getting a similar experience.

But I also feel DCPS can be really intense about academics and testing in a way that isn't always in the kid's best interest. I've heard this gets even more intense in kindergarten and am trying to prepare myself.

Anyway, I still think SWS sounds like a great school, though it's probably not a fit for all families, including probably ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

Did you grow up in a 75% black neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bump. Are the new incoming grades getting any better?

Interesting choice of words

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

And?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been discussed on numerous prior threads. But part of the reason has to do with the legacy of proximity preference from when SWS first broke off from Peabody.

Another factor is that the Goding building is not near major transportation hubs, so it’s more inaccessible than other options and thus is preferred by the adjacent (predominantly white) community.

I don’t think a temporary swing space situation (in the middle of a pandemic) is enough to reverse this factor.

That said I believe the population is shifting a bit over time (to become more black), though I don’t have statistics on that.

Thank you for the reply, I didn’t know about the history with Peabody or the proximity preference, that does explain a lot.

I looked for a thread on this issue but SWS gets mentioned a lot on this forum and didn’t see anything on point.

I don’t think proximities and Peabody can explain it anymore.

I would disagree. We didn't consider SWS because it's too hard to get to. Our children are white, but most who travel from NE are not, and are less likely to choose SWS over the many excellent options which are much closer to our part of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People keep saying that there is no chance of getting in certain schools like SWS yet some kids get in and don’t even put the school in the top spot. Include it as one of the 12 lottery spots and try your hand.

Some people may not be drawn to SWS because of the Reggio curriculum, which they may not understand or appreciate. Then there is the posting on the wall of written prose by students that has plenty of misspelling that may leave parents to wonder.

There is a bus stop near SWS (Goding building) and a doable walk to Union Station. The street car is not too far. Also, plenty of parents drop their kids off on the way to work.

Finally, “School within School” name may leave you wondering.

With all due respect, most parents who are doing a lot of research on preschool are quite familiar with the Reggio curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I can maybe guess at the answer to this question but I am hoping someone else can explain it to me.

SWS is a citywide school with no in-boundary preference. It's a popular school and always has a long waitlist and admits few kids off the waitlist (last year it made one waitlist offer). So admission to SWS should be pretty egalitarian -- you do the lottery, and if you get lucky, you get a spot.

So why is SWS 60% white? It's one of the whitest schools in the city. Brent Elementary is about as white, but Brent is a boundary school in a very white neighborhood, so that is more easily explained.

But shouldn't SWS be more reflective of city demographics? What's going on?

My guess is that it's partly due to how sibling preference operates in a school with very small class sizes. If even a third of SWS's PK class is getting sibling preference, that will heavily reinforce demographics from prior years. I also wonder if the low percentages of non-white kids is self-perpetuating, because it might make the school less appealing to parents of black and Latino kids, especially when there are so many schools in DC with much larger POC populations, many of them excellent schools.

But still: how did this happen in the first place? I just don't understand how a citywide school in DC gets to 60% white kids in the first place. I know Capitol Hill is increasingly very white, but SWS is currently in a flex space in Hill East which is much less white. And most other Capital Hill schools, except Brent, still have less than 50% white student populations. And other citywide schools and charters in the area (CHML, TR, Apple Tree) all have populations that are much more reflective of the city's overall population.

What's going on?

My childhood elementary school was 90% white.

And?

60% white is a low pct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transportation and lack of information about the lottery among many families. Despite the intense focus on the lottery on DCUM many families don’t know how to navigate it. Most importantly they don’t know that their best lottery chance is for PK3. By the time K rolls around, it’s too late. I think that many lower income families might also prefer not to start school at PK3, maybe because they have more stable childcare arrangements that go all day and through the summer? I noticed a big racial disparity in PK3 at our IB, which lessened in K. That made me think POC didn’t know about or didn’t want PK3. For SWS this would have an even bigger impact since there is no by-right K.

That makes a lot of sense. It does make me wonder if SWS could do more to attract black and Latino families.

Part of the reason I’m asking this as a white parent is that I would feel strange sending my kid to such a white school in such a diverse city. It’s a negative to me. Seems like otherwise a fantastic school but I would worry about the long term message it sends to my kid. I’m also not trying to insulate my kid from diversity. It seems it would be in SWS’s long term interest to boost awareness of their program and work in transportation options for families in Hill East, east of the river, etc.

Only in DC would a white parent feel that 60% white is not diverse enough. The vast majority of African American families in this city choose far less diverse schools which are a much larger majority African American. If you'd prefer to send your child to one of those schools, they are available for you to choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bump. Are the new incoming grades getting any better?

Interesting choice of words

Uh… SWS isn’t located in a 75% black neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SWS parents must have better things to worry about. The middling academics are the real problem, not the whiteness. It's not a lily white school, not by a long shot. Hill DCPS ES parents who pay $350/month for Mathnasium get strong math instruction. Hill DCPS ES parents who pay writing top tutors get strong writing instruction. If SWS focused far more on academics and less on fun and inclusion, the families would be much better off. These observations come from a POC (parent of color) whose had kids have percolated in DCPS schools for a decade. We supplemented so much post Covid in the upper grades that we might as well have paid for St. Peter.

I don’t doubt this is true if SWS, but isn’t the need to supplement (and the increasing ease of doing so) just a common fact of UMC life?