VA math changes - ways to speak out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is being poorly explained and the freaker-outers are just doing what they always do. No one is going to take a kid who took Algebra 1 in 7th grade and make them repeat it in 9th or 10th.

In the AAP someone asked about this, and here is the response from VADOE. That said you can definitely ask about this again by filling out this question form. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSesz3YtqVqXtAioJKX0xtYbPxUW6l7dfpbwfdbQyEQ5eTgZMQ/viewform?utm_name=.

New response from the VA Dept of Ed when I asked if they could confirm if they would "detrack" and eliminate honors:

The Virginia Mathematics Pathways Initiative proposals support the vision that all students are capable of making sense of and persevering in solving challenging mathematics problems and should be expected to do so. Many more students, regardless of gender, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status, need to be given the support, confidence, and opportunities to reach much higher levels of mathematical success and interest. VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated.

Sincerely,
Tina Mazzacane
K-12 Mathematics Coordinator
Virginia Department of Education

Nowhere does that say it will be done retroactively.

Did you see something on the website that says it won't be done retroactively? I would be so happy if I missed that so I am genuinely asking. But without that spelled out, I remain skeptical. And even if it is spelled out, they could drop it later if they think they can get away with it. Clearly this is being spearheaded by people who hate tracking so they will get rid of as much of it as quickly as they can.

[Anonymous]

This is what I was told when I sent in the question about mid stream kids.

“ the logistics of the roll-out will be very complex, but a goal would be to try to ensure that no one has [to] "repeat" any content/courses when VMPI is fully implemented.”

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the comments but I am disappointed that the state is taking away a path for gifted and advanced math students. I am a black parent in Loudoun. Both of my children are in advanced math classes and both tested into Algebra I for 6th grade. I understand the lack of black students in advanced math is at the heart of it. I do not think this should cause other students white or otherwise to miss out on an opportunity. The worst thing for a parent is when your child says they are bored or class is boring not because they don't enjoy the subject but because they have mastered the current material but they cannot move on.

I think the lack of black students comes down to early opportunity and attitudes toward gifted learning. My children went to Montessori preschool where I was told that they spent all their time in the sorting, sequencing and math area. They enjoyed it. I asked what things I could do to encourage it at home. I am lucky enough to have the resources to do so. However, in contrast, I was gifted as a very early reader. I can remember my parents and others in my extended family make jokes about my being a nerd at 4 or 5. I didn't know what it meant but it felt like it was bad. While Black excellence is being celebrated today, I am not that old and I remember when smarts were not the celebrated thing in some black communities. I do not want to paint with a broad brush, but I just feel like don't dumb it down, go to the root and build it up. Invest in free preschool programs not daycare, identify black children at younger ages, free book programs like Dolly Parton's. I think that there been a history of not identifying those Black students that could be gifted, but why take away the opportunity for those that might be identified as gifted now.

The experience of my older child is that the Algebra I class moved too slowly. My older child was put into class with 8th grade students. The 8 or so 6th grade students were spread out over several classes. We felt that the class would have moved at a faster pace if all of the 6th grade students were put in a class together as they are interested in the topic and wanted to go at a faster pace. My daughter made an A+ in the class and 550 on the SOL. She probably could have made a higher score but she does not like Math test on a computer. My second child who is currently in the Algebra I class as a 6th grader is mainly with other 6th graders and a few 7th graders. Different teacher from my first child but the class is going at a much faster pace. She loves it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I would say this but I actually support the changes that VA is going to make.

It will almost certainly go through because too many parents are disillusion regarding their kids abilities and their kids never learn the basics of math and this becomes evident in high school.

What evidence do you have that these changes will actually lead to kids gaining a better understanding of the basics of math? Serious question.

It's no secret that taking the time to learn the basics of Math well and gain a great understanding will be beneficial.

Most kids are rushed through and by the time they get to high school they are struggling and need a tutor to get them through their higher level math classes.

Most accelerated classes all throughout the schools years make allowances for students who aren't doing well by doing things to prop up grades like grading homework participation, giving many retakes and so on.

Now that my child is in high school and does really want to go into a STEM field and we are looking at colleges, we are finding that many students once they get to college are repeating their advanced math courses from high school in college. Even when the student gets a high AP exam score. Some schools for some majors seem to require the student take the math courses at their school.

Yet another reason we went private after 8 years in APS.

Don’t get me started on the lack of grammar instruction and writing in APS.

[Anonymous]

So once again "equity" means bringing everyone down rather than bringing the lower performing students up. How does this solve anything?

This is a terrible idea and is going to have lot of unintended consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the comments but I am disappointed that the state is taking away a path for gifted and advanced math students. I am a black parent in Loudoun. Both of my children are in advanced math classes and both tested into Algebra I for 6th grade. I understand the lack of black students in advanced math is at the heart of it. I do not think this should cause other students white or otherwise to miss out on an opportunity. The worst thing for a parent is when your child says they are bored or class is boring not because they don't enjoy the subject but because they have mastered the current material but they cannot move on.

I think the lack of black students comes down to early opportunity and attitudes toward gifted learning. My children went to Montessori preschool where I was told that they spent all their time in the sorting, sequencing and math area. They enjoyed it. I asked what things I could do to encourage it at home. I am lucky enough to have the resources to do so. However, in contrast, I was gifted as a very early reader. I can remember my parents and others in my extended family make jokes about my being a nerd at 4 or 5. I didn't know what it meant but it felt like it was bad. While Black excellence is being celebrated today, I am not that old and I remember when smarts were not the celebrated thing in some black communities. I do not want to paint with a broad brush, but I just feel like don't dumb it down, go to the root and build it up. Invest in free preschool programs not daycare, identify black children at younger ages, free book programs like Dolly Parton's. I think that there been a history of not identifying those Black students that could be gifted, but why take away the opportunity for those that might be identified as gifted now.

The experience of my older child is that the Algebra I class moved too slowly. My older child was put into class with 8th grade students. The 8 or so 6th grade students were spread out over several classes. We felt that the class would have moved at a faster pace if all of the 6th grade students were put in a class together as they are interested in the topic and wanted to go at a faster pace. My daughter made an A+ in the class and 550 on the SOL. She probably could have made a higher score but she does not like Math test on a computer. My second child who is currently in the Algebra I class as a 6th grader is mainly with other 6th graders and a few 7th graders. Different teacher from my first child but the class is going at a much faster pace. She loves it.

Please write to the VDOE. They need to hear from Black parents.

[Anonymous]

I think the angle needs to be different than the letter that OP wrote. The way to do this is to appeal to the people the state is trying to reach and appeal to their goals. Teachers and Lower Achieving Students mainly. And then the angle for high achieving students should be to the benefit of the state more than the individual student. In this way the arguments would be something like this:

1. Teachers will not be able to effectively teach a wider range of students thus hurting lower achieving students the most. Followed by solutions such as pull outs for remedial help.
a. Additional teachers to lower class sizes
b. Homework required to help children practice.
c. After school help/Additional summer learning
d. Need additional assessment data to gauge improvement
3. higher teacher salary to teach wider range of students
2. Lower achieving students will likely not improve with a wide variety of skills in a classroom. Point to studies that show lower achieving students don't ask as many questions. Don't have as good results after one year as they do with pull outs. Pull actual data that shows how lower ability students improve the most.
a. Perhaps offer solutions that involve a mix of whole class verses pull out time which I'm guessing probably shows the best return of investment. Perhaps Monday or Friday of each week could be a whole classroom math time.
3. High achieving students will be needed to keep Virginia colleges competitive and keep Virginia competitive in the job market in the US and overseas.
a. Data on what other countries are doing and how we compare in terms of math related careers.
b. Consequences of not having a state with high achieving math students
c. Actual data that shows the proposed program will not allow high achieving students to excel.

I'm not a great writer. Anyone want to take a crack at drawing up a letter that hits on these types of points? Is there data that can be pulled to make these arguments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So once again "equity" means bringing everyone down rather than bringing the lower performing students up. How does this solve anything?

This is a terrible idea and is going to have lot of unintended consequences.

It's the Arlington Way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the comments but I am disappointed that the state is taking away a path for gifted and advanced math students. I am a black parent in Loudoun. Both of my children are in advanced math classes and both tested into Algebra I for 6th grade. I understand the lack of black students in advanced math is at the heart of it. I do not think this should cause other students white or otherwise to miss out on an opportunity. The worst thing for a parent is when your child says they are bored or class is boring not because they don't enjoy the subject but because they have mastered the current material but they cannot move on.

I think the lack of black students comes down to early opportunity and attitudes toward gifted learning. My children went to Montessori preschool where I was told that they spent all their time in the sorting, sequencing and math area. They enjoyed it. I asked what things I could do to encourage it at home. I am lucky enough to have the resources to do so. However, in contrast, I was gifted as a very early reader. I can remember my parents and others in my extended family make jokes about my being a nerd at 4 or 5. I didn't know what it meant but it felt like it was bad. While Black excellence is being celebrated today, I am not that old and I remember when smarts were not the celebrated thing in some black communities. I do not want to paint with a broad brush, but I just feel like don't dumb it down, go to the root and build it up. Invest in free preschool programs not daycare, identify black children at younger ages, free book programs like Dolly Parton's. I think that there been a history of not identifying those Black students that could be gifted, but why take away the opportunity for those that might be identified as gifted now.

The experience of my older child is that the Algebra I class moved too slowly. My older child was put into class with 8th grade students. The 8 or so 6th grade students were spread out over several classes. We felt that the class would have moved at a faster pace if all of the 6th grade students were put in a class together as they are interested in the topic and wanted to go at a faster pace. My daughter made an A+ in the class and 550 on the SOL. She probably could have made a higher score but she does not like Math test on a computer. My second child who is currently in the Algebra I class as a 6th grader is mainly with other 6th graders and a few 7th graders. Different teacher from my first child but the class is going at a much faster pace. She loves it.

Please write to the VDOE. They need to hear from Black parents.

So the SOL score (multiple choice test) means nothing about Algebra 1 knowledge. My kid had straight As in MS math in APS with very little effort and scored perfect on the Algebra SOL. When he took the Algebra exemption test for HS in 7th grade (for applying to private) he scored a 58%. We soon learned the gap that is APS math. He eventually tested into Honors Geo Freshmen year at private and has been getting As in their AP math course/honor courses. But--by slowing down and learning the material he is a much stronger math student today than he would have been with the false pretense of being several grade levels ahead in Math.

Quality of instruction and repetition in early math years breeds success in later high school/college math.

I read all of the studies on the results of kids in the advanced math path (Algebra 6th grade) and they all fell off and many ended up at a lower level than kids that took the more traditional route through math. APS has LOADS OF data on this. I spent a lot of time gathering that material and talking to the actual math teachers and what they were seeing.

High grades and intensified mask a lot of deficiencies...in math and writing and grammar in this school system. I saw 2 kids float by doing almost no work and getting straight As all through MS---yet reading their essays OMG. And they were getting 'As' on them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
...

I read all of the studies on the results of kids in the advanced math path (Algebra 6th grade) and they all fell off and many ended up at a lower level than kids that took the more traditional route through math. APS has LOADS OF data on this. I spent a lot of time gathering that material and talking to the actual math teachers and what they were seeing.

High grades and intensified mask a lot of deficiencies...in math and writing and grammar in this school system. I saw 2 kids float by doing almost no work and getting straight As all through MS---yet reading their essays OMG. And they were getting 'As' on them

All of this suggests that the math courses need to be much more rigorous with much stricter grading. It doesn't suggest that advanced math tracks shouldn't be provided or that no kids are ready in 6th. If they made it harder to get into early Algebra, made Algebra more rigorous, and stopped inflating the grades, then there would be very few unready kids in that track.

FWIW, my kid tested into AoPS Algebra in 4th grade after earning 100% on the pre-Algebra test out. He completed the course with high grades and then got 100% on his Algebra placement test at his new school. Bright kids who are exposed to rigorous math at early ages will be fine with Algebra at early ages. Many bright kids are capable of so much more than the schools allow them to do.

[Anonymous]

I wrote to vdoe and they said they would not be eliminating any programs that currently exist, only augmenting with additional pathways.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone contacted Loudoun Times and other local papers? This is statewide, so that includes Richmond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote to vdoe and they said they would not be eliminating any programs that currently exist, only augmenting with additional pathways.

Please provide the e-mail, because that is not in line with anything that they've said before including their web videos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The experience of my older child is that the Algebra I class moved too slowly. My older child was put into class with 8th grade students.

For me, until last year there were only a few 6th graders taking algebra. I was told they would put the 6th graders in one or two classes so they would be together, and they ended up using more.
They are(were) getting higher numbers and have had to adjust. 7th graders in algebra is very common and 8th graders would have been the weaker students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote to vdoe and they said they would not be eliminating any programs that currently exist, only augmenting with additional pathways.

Please provide the e-mail, because that is not in line with anything that they've said before including their web videos.

Agree. That is the opposite of the videos.