Big universities where Greek life is not huge? "Safety School" a plus!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Believe it or not, Texas A&M had a big pushback against Greek life while I was there (albeit 30 years ago!).

A popular t-shirt on campus was "Rent a friend...Join a frat". Sorority girls were referred to a "bow-heads".

I don't know if it's still this way, but 12% of students are involved in Greek life. It's a big school, so that's still a lot of people.

You were probably there at the same time as me! But, yes, Texas A&M should definitely fit the bill.

And Texas A&M is a great school. Weather nice, excellent location. Very surprised it is not more popular in DMV compared to big ten schools.

[Anonymous]

Where's the data "it's more popular than ever before" poster? All I see in the news are negative stories about Greek life especially regarding COVID-19 outbreaks. See Duke, UVA et al.

If you've got some numbers, I'd like to see them. I could certainly see interest remaining strong at 'Bama, FSU or South Carolina.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your son so turned off by frats, OP? Is he a timid kid? Is he afraid that he'll rush and not get a bid? Is he popular in high school?

I'm not sure what his reasons are. He said he isn't interested and I am just glad. The reasons I, as his mom, don't want Greek life--well mostly because of what happened at VCU a few weeks ago. And what happened at WVU with Nolan Burch. And what happens with at least a few college students every year. The excess drinking to the point of death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOnrwIQGYY
This is a link to a documentary called "Breathe Nolan Breath." It's about Nolan Burch and I've posted it on here before.

OP, I'm not the PP you were responding to, that was over the top. My thoughts are I wouldn't let a large greek contingent at a large school discourage you from a school your child REALLY likes, at a large school there is a multitude of things to participate in beyond the greek system, to make it a deal breaker might be a bit much, MIT has a 45% greek rate with 25 fraternities and 6 sororities, would your child not go there? Additionally, unless he get's a job or has a really large allowance there's no way to join a fraternity without your endorsement. If they aren't interested in the culture and parties than there is a club for almost anything and everything on a major campus. The fit, feel and vibe are the key in my opinion.

I see nothing "over the top" about not wanting my child to drink himself to death to impress "friends."

That being said, I'm not refusing to allow my kid to a school with a huge Greek presence, or to pledge a fraternity if he wants to. HE is the one who doesn't want it, and I see no reason to push him into it.

My child is not getting into MIT, so that isn't even a consideration.

I was calling the bolded type over the top not your response. Not sure what else to say, you asked the original question and made the original post, I believe that was the premise of everyone's response. If you don't care than and he is the one that is making the decision because he's not interested than I would suggest you have a variety of good options high greek or not. The MIT reference was only for context, point being even elite schools have a high % of greek life, I believe it should not be a consideration if a good fit.

OP here

Ok, I see now. I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

In response to the other poster: "Why is your son so turned off by frats, OP? Is he a timid kid? Is he afraid that he'll rush and not get a bid? Is he popular in high school?"


I really don't know if he's afraid he wouldn't get a bid. He's not timid, and he is generally well liked. He's often been "voted in" to other things (mostly leadership positions in clubs) but he's never ran for anything big--like student body president or prom king. Neither my husband nor I were in Greek life in college so I really don't know how competitive it gets, and it probably depends on the specific fraternity/school anyway.

I do know that in that video about Nolan Burch, everyone talks about how well liked and popular he was. Everyone loved him. That still didn't stop his "friends" from laughing as he lay dying from alcohol poisoning. And no, it's not just "those kids" from "that fraternity" at "that school." Hazing deaths happen every year at schools across the country, even more prestigious schools like MIT, Cornell, etc.

When he's in college he will be an adult and can make his own choices. But right now he says he's not interested so I'm just going to be happy and offer suggestions on schools where frat parties aren't the main source of social life.

[Anonymous]

I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

OP here
You are definitely right about that. In my university (early-mid 90s in California) I was hazed in marching band! It was crazy, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

OP here
You are definitely right about that. In my university (early-mid 90s in California) I was hazed in marching band! It was crazy, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

OP again. Wow! I actually hadn't really thought about it in years, but it made me just look up the university's band. It was actually shut down a couple years ago for hazing!
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article234673882.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your son so turned off by frats, OP? Is he a timid kid? Is he afraid that he'll rush and not get a bid? Is he popular in high school?

I'm not sure what his reasons are. He said he isn't interested and I am just glad. The reasons I, as his mom, don't want Greek life--well mostly because of what happened at VCU a few weeks ago. And what happened at WVU with Nolan Burch. And what happens with at least a few college students every year. The excess drinking to the point of death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOnrwIQGYY
This is a link to a documentary called "Breathe Nolan Breath." It's about Nolan Burch and I've posted it on here before.

OP, I'm not the PP you were responding to, that was over the top. My thoughts are I wouldn't let a large greek contingent at a large school discourage you from a school your child REALLY likes, at a large school there is a multitude of things to participate in beyond the greek system, to make it a deal breaker might be a bit much, MIT has a 45% greek rate with 25 fraternities and 6 sororities, would your child not go there? Additionally, unless he get's a job or has a really large allowance there's no way to join a fraternity without your endorsement. If they aren't interested in the culture and parties than there is a club for almost anything and everything on a major campus. The fit, feel and vibe are the key in my opinion.

I see nothing "over the top" about not wanting my child to drink himself to death to impress "friends."

That being said, I'm not refusing to allow my kid to a school with a huge Greek presence, or to pledge a fraternity if he wants to. HE is the one who doesn't want it, and I see no reason to push him into it.

My child is not getting into MIT, so that isn't even a consideration.

I was calling the bolded type over the top not your response. Not sure what else to say, you asked the original question and made the original post, I believe that was the premise of everyone's response. If you don't care than and he is the one that is making the decision because he's not interested than I would suggest you have a variety of good options high greek or not. The MIT reference was only for context, point being even elite schools have a high % of greek life, I believe it should not be a consideration if a good fit.

OP here

Ok, I see now. I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

In response to the other poster: "Why is your son so turned off by frats, OP? Is he a timid kid? Is he afraid that he'll rush and not get a bid? Is he popular in high school?"


I really don't know if he's afraid he wouldn't get a bid. He's not timid, and he is generally well liked. He's often been "voted in" to other things (mostly leadership positions in clubs) but he's never ran for anything big--like student body president or prom king. Neither my husband nor I were in Greek life in college so I really don't know how competitive it gets, and it probably depends on the specific fraternity/school anyway.

I do know that in that video about Nolan Burch, everyone talks about how well liked and popular he was. Everyone loved him. That still didn't stop his "friends" from laughing as he lay dying from alcohol poisoning. And no, it's not just "those kids" from "that fraternity" at "that school." Hazing deaths happen every year at schools across the country, even more prestigious schools like MIT, Cornell, etc.

When he's in college he will be an adult and can make his own choices. But right now he says he's not interested so I'm just going to be happy and offer suggestions on schools where frat parties aren't the main source of social life.

UW-Madison.

[Anonymous]

Any non-drinkers joined a frat and enjoyed the experience? DS does not like to drink and took some colleges off his list because of the dominant drinking culture. If he does join a Frat for other reasons, is drinking part of the expectation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

OP here
You are definitely right about that. In my university (early-mid 90s in California) I was hazed in marching band! It was crazy, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

OP again. Wow! I actually hadn't really thought about it in years, but it made me just look up the university's band. It was actually shut down a couple years ago for hazing!
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article234673882.html

Sounds familiar. I wound up huddled, blindfolded with other people in rough shape in a basement and the police wound up coming into the hazing "party." They did nothing but laugh and leave. Worst kept secret on that campus was that we were all hazed mercilessly. I refused to participate and only "delivered" my initiates to the party at the very last second so they missed the bulk of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any non-drinkers joined a frat and enjoyed the experience? DS does not like to drink and took some colleges off his list because of the dominant drinking culture. If he does join a Frat for other reasons, is drinking part of the expectation?

I was in a large fraternity enjoyed the experience and never drank, had several other members that did the same, wasn't a big deal but then again every one is different, that's the point of rush to find the right fit for both entities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

OP here
You are definitely right about that. In my university (early-mid 90s in California) I was hazed in marching band! It was crazy, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

OP again. Wow! I actually hadn't really thought about it in years, but it made me just look up the university's band. It was actually shut down a couple years ago for hazing!
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article234673882.html

Sounds familiar. I wound up huddled, blindfolded with other people in rough shape in a basement and the police wound up coming into the hazing "party." They did nothing but laugh and leave. Worst kept secret on that campus was that we were all hazed mercilessly. I refused to participate and only "delivered" my initiates to the party at the very last second so they missed the bulk of it.

What exactly did they make you do/do to you? Why did you continue to stay in the frat? Why not just ask them to fu*k off and leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no Greek life and we had clubs that functioned EXACTLY like fraternities and sororities. I was hazed into a volunteer group. A volunteer group! The other groups that hazed: the newspaper, student government, the programming board, etc.

The thing is that there was zero oversight. No rules of conduct from a national org. No ramifications for the hazing.

When I visited friends and went to frat parties, they were exactly like our parties.

Don't assume that the absence of Greek letters means people aren't doing the same things that frats and sororities do.

OP here
You are definitely right about that. In my university (early-mid 90s in California) I was hazed in marching band! It was crazy, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

OP again. Wow! I actually hadn't really thought about it in years, but it made me just look up the university's band. It was actually shut down a couple years ago for hazing!
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article234673882.html

Sounds familiar. I wound up huddled, blindfolded with other people in rough shape in a basement and the police wound up coming into the hazing "party." They did nothing but laugh and leave. Worst kept secret on that campus was that we were all hazed mercilessly. I refused to participate and only "delivered" my initiates to the party at the very last second so they missed the bulk of it.

What exactly did they make you do/do to you? Why did you continue to stay in the frat? Why not just ask them to fu*k off and leave?

Read the entire thread. PP was a band nerd, not a frat god. Point is hazing is prevalent in just about every club or organization in college, not just frats.

[Anonymous]

<<hazing is prevalent in just about every club or organization in college>>

But times they are a changing, despite attitudes like yours.

Hazing is illegal. Schools get in BIG trouble (think 60 minutes) when they are associated with such activities. More and more schools are RUNNING the other way from this sick/bootcamp/mentality.

On most of the tours my DC went on, they made a point to distance themselves from fraternities, and other clubs that were not open to all members. So, you need to get some new material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any non-drinkers joined a frat and enjoyed the experience? DS does not like to drink and took some colleges off his list because of the dominant drinking culture. If he does join a Frat for other reasons, is drinking part of the expectation? [/quote

I would look at sites like UNIGO and NICHE to see how dominant the drinking culture is overall, at a given college. Their survey results reflect HUGE variations (so don't believe parents on here who say all colleges are the same). The question is whether non-drinkers are marginalized or totally integrated into the community.

[Anonymous]

Pitt