Do we stay in DC or move to Baltimore?

[Anonymous]

This is one of the nicer places in Hampden and the mortgage is probably low $2k. You can get really nice places near by for $350k or less.

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/3259-Chestnut-Ave-21211/home/10869393

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have girls, check out Bryn Mawr. Believe it is still considered the best top private HS in the state, and the lower and middle school educations are fantastic as well.

As someone mentioned, once you hit upper school, you’ll be paying 30k which is still a hell of a lot better than the 50k in most DC privates.

We had our kid in a preschool we loved in DC and almost stayed for (which in retrospect, was quite silly) and now have her in a great program for a 1/3 of the cost. Huge weight off our shoulders, financially and mentally.

What people don’t understand in this thread is that you can live in Roland Park and send your kid to Bryn Mawr for much less than to live in a place like Cleveland Park and send your kid to a public high school like Wilson. Bryn Mawr is one of the best private schools Maryland and is almost equivalent to sending your DD to Holton Arms. You could live in a neighborhood with dozens of hip walkable restaurants and bars like Hampden and send your child to Friends, Guilford, Roland Park Country Day, or Bryn Mawr and do so for $5k a month ($2,000 a month tops for a renovated 2,000 sq ft rowhome with high end finished and $3,000 a month tops for your child’s elite private school tuition). That kind of life is feasible for UMC dual income couples making around $200k a year. $5,000 a month in DC gives you barely enough to afford a comparable rowhome on H St.

Do you know me? Because we are doing exactly this, and all your numbers are frighteningly accurate. Large, sunny rowhome with everything walkable -- we can walk to grocery, library, lots of restaurants/boutiques, and a hiking trail. Not really high-end finishes but we were extremely particular with location. Kid in an amazing private school, getting an education that is approximately one billion times better than I got at the "excellent" public school I attended.

Life's good in charm city, hon. Is it for everyone? Of course not. But there's a lot to love here.

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m not sure how you define suburbia, but this place right by Roland Park is gorg and walking distance to a few good restaurants, grocery stores, and coffee shops. Zoned to the good elementary and middle school as well as right next to several great private schools. If you’re worried about investments, areas like this are likely a better bet than Fells.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/216-Oakdale-Rd-Baltimore-MD-21210/36589560_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

[Anonymous]

Move to Annapolis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Baltimore residents have a skewed perspective. When your baseline for crime is Baltimore, you'll think neighborhoods like Canton, CV, Hamden, Roland Park are fine, yet they still have very high levels of crime. There is a reason. Baltimore is cheap, so many homes are for sale in Baltimore, and nothing appreciates. Everyone leaves the city when they get older and have kids. It is rare in Baltimore to see many people pushing around strollers and having school aged kids because everyone leaves when they start families when taxes, schools, and safety start to matter.

Spoken as someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

It is far from rare to see families in Baltimore. From the older families in Roland Park to the young ones in Canton and Hampden, it's absolutely false. My kid is in a RP private school and a solid third of his classmates are from the city. There are a LOT of high-end strollers being pushed around within city limits (and even more not-high-end-strollers, but I suspect you think those families don't count).

Also patently false to say that crime is high in Hampden and Roland Park etc. There was a murder in Roland Park in 2016, every freaked out, and people still talk about it. Your car might get broken into, sure. But I lived in a neighborhood approximately 100000x seedier than any of the neighborhoods you've mentioned, and nobody I knew there experienced violent crime. Crime tends to be concentrated and that's not where it's concentrated.

But don't take my word for it. Crime statistics are readily available. All the maps show the same thing: the "white L" is pretty darn safe, and the "black butterfly" is not. We absolutely need to fight for a safer city for ALL Baltimore residents -- but don't pretend that the pain is equally spread throughout the city. It plainly is not.

This is pretty true. You can get an idea on this by how many families are leaving Baltimore. City's population is less than 600K which is below it was in 1950s. City is in horrible state with high crime, bad schools and public services and high taxes. Take out a couple of neighborhoods and you don't have a good place in Baltimore to raise kids. People should be paid to live there instead of high taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Move to Annapolis.

This is a far superior option IMO, especially being close to the recreational opportunities, and wanting to be in Maryland. Four years in Baltimore was enough for me.

[Anonymous]

Everyone talks about crime in Baltimore being bad, but how does it compare to DC east of the river? Worse? Better?

[Anonymous]

I am sure the thread can speak to that. I went to graduate school in baltimore, my husband is in law enforcement and for his job has traveled a lot. He said to me something along these lines....that he had been in a lot of places, including other cities and yet it was in baltimore (downtown, not even the worst parts) where he felt the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. Some parts are lovely and the city has much to offer. But some of the crimes are really on another level. Like armed robberies in broad daylight on the courtyard of the campus. Years ago there was an attempted abduction of a college female in broad daylight on a main road. You have to just be mindful all the time and that level of high alert can be wearying. But not everbody is the same and some people feel safe there overall.

[Anonymous]

I worked on two baltimore college campuses many years ago and we would get the security alerts on all activities in our email. I think exposure to that feed was a little traumatizing at the time because the typical boundaries of what you would expect did not really hold. It did not matter if it was in broad daylight, it did not always matter if there was a group of people together vs one person, there was an armed carjacking in broad daylight right outside of the hopkins campus. It wad that kind of thing. It might be better now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone talks about crime in Baltimore being bad, but how does it compare to DC east of the river? Worse? Better?

People who live in DC west of the river never go east of the river. I know people who have lived in DC for 20 years and have never been east of the river except on the freeway.

Though since you asked, there are many parts of east of the river that are really pleasant. I think the main issue is the sheer volume of illegal firearms in those neighborhoods. So much of the violence are these gang and drug related shoot outs that escalate to community tragedies because so many people have guns, including way, way too men very young men. It is alarming and it's the main reason I won't move there. There is gun violence throughout DC, and there are pockets of public housing throughout the city where there is a decent amount of drug traffic and gang violence, but one thing that gentrification has wrought is just enormous populations of people who would never even consider keeping a gun in their home. It genuinely helps. Gentrification has downsides, but it also has real upsides and this is one of them.

I don't know Baltimore well enough to know, but I'm guessing based on crimes stats that guns are incredibly prevalent there. Its a really hard problem to address, maybe even harder than drugs. When guns are prevalent in poor neighborhoods, many people get and keep guns for personal safety. And that inevitably leads to more violence and death. It is a very difficult cycle and is made worse when the citizens do not trust the police department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked on two baltimore college campuses many years ago and we would get the security alerts on all activities in our email. I think exposure to that feed was a little traumatizing at the time because the typical boundaries of what you would expect did not really hold. It did not matter if it was in broad daylight, it did not always matter if there was a group of people together vs one person, there was an armed carjacking in broad daylight right outside of the hopkins campus. It wad that kind of thing. It might be better now.

This is just scaremongering. I attended Hopkins undergrad and have lived all over a Baltimore, never have I, a friend, or a family member been a victim of violence or even close.

Over a decade ago, there was a carjacking in Guilford. I assume that is what pp s referring too. Isolated crimes like this also occur in dc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure the thread can speak to that. I went to graduate school in baltimore, my husband is in law enforcement and for his job has traveled a lot. He said to me something along these lines....that he had been in a lot of places, including other cities and yet it was in baltimore (downtown, not even the worst parts) where he felt the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. Some parts are lovely and the city has much to offer. But some of the crimes are really on another level. Like armed robberies in broad daylight on the courtyard of the campus. Years ago there was an attempted abduction of a college female in broad daylight on a main road. You have to just be mindful all the time and that level of high alert can be wearying. But not everbody is the same and some people feel safe there overall.

None of this ever happened. And I recognize you as someone who frequently posts this made up bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m not sure how you define suburbia, but this place right by Roland Park is gorg and walking distance to a few good restaurants, grocery stores, and coffee shops. Zoned to the good elementary and middle school as well as right next to several great private schools. If you’re worried about investments, areas like this are likely a better bet than Fells.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/216-Oakdale-Rd-Baltimore-MD-21210/36589560_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

Whoever bought that before it was renovated for $335,000 is going to make a killing. For those who don’t know Baltimore this neighborhood is like Spring Valley or Cleveland Park.

[Anonymous]

No one is going to deny that Baltimore isn't a problematic city. At the same time it's not as problematic as some of you want to think. Parts of the city are very nice, very livable, and can offer a pretty high quality lifestyle and the residents do love it. They are not living in a crime ridden post apocalyptic war zone. There are very large swathes of Baltimore that are indeed deeply problematic but it doesn't negate the nice parts of town. Some people are comfortable with the bipolar nature of Baltimore, others are not.

I don’t think Baltimore has a rosy future and that the status quo will largely persist for the foreseeable future. You'll see more gentrification in the central corridor, Remington and lower Charles Village seem to be the next gentrification area. But persistently dysfunctional politics and schools and urban populations will mean the larger city will remain deeply problematic. But it's not the end of the world, either. Most people in the central corridor don't go to East or West Baltimore. It is just what it is. The people who chose to live in the city accept it and they don't need or want to be criticized or judged or have crime stats screeched at them, especially if the crime stats are largely meaningless to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Baltimore residents have a skewed perspective. When your baseline for crime is Baltimore, you'll think neighborhoods like Canton, CV, Hamden, Roland Park are fine, yet they still have very high levels of crime. There is a reason. Baltimore is cheap, so many homes are for sale in Baltimore, and nothing appreciates. Everyone leaves the city when they get older and have kids. It is rare in Baltimore to see many people pushing around strollers and having school aged kids because everyone leaves when they start families when taxes, schools, and safety start to matter.

Spoken as someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

It is far from rare to see families in Baltimore. From the older families in Roland Park to the young ones in Canton and Hampden, it's absolutely false. My kid is in a RP private school and a solid third of his classmates are from the city. There are a LOT of high-end strollers being pushed around within city limits (and even more not-high-end-strollers, but I suspect you think those families don't count).

Also patently false to say that crime is high in Hampden and Roland Park etc. There was a murder in Roland Park in 2016, every freaked out, and people still talk about it. Your car might get broken into, sure. But I lived in a neighborhood approximately 100000x seedier than any of the neighborhoods you've mentioned, and nobody I knew there experienced violent crime. Crime tends to be concentrated and that's not where it's concentrated.

But don't take my word for it. Crime statistics are readily available. All the maps show the same thing: the "white L" is pretty darn safe, and the "black butterfly" is not. We absolutely need to fight for a safer city for ALL Baltimore residents -- but don't pretend that the pain is equally spread throughout the city. It plainly is not.

This is pretty true. You can get an idea on this by how many families are leaving Baltimore. City's population is less than 600K which is below it was in 1950s. City is in horrible state with high crime, bad schools and public services and high taxes. Take out a couple of neighborhoods and you don't have a good place in Baltimore to raise kids. People should be paid to live there instead of high taxes.

I see the anti-Baltimore trolls are back.

The vast majority of white flight in Baltimore occurred prior to 2000.