Foreign Service Officers snooty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

Wait, so you're saying State shouldn't hire top law school grads? What exactly do taxpayers deserve? And I thought taxpayers only concern about agency lawyers is that they have sound judgment...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

You sound lovely. I wonder how many L lawyers you've actually met/dealt with. If you think they're insufferable and work with them in a professional capacity, you're probably one of the fools who thinks L cramps their style because they actually, gasp, care about the law and ensuring the accuracy of Department products. Luckily for me, your boss or your boss's boss usually cares and I can just go over your head when I need to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

Wait, so you're saying State shouldn't hire top law school grads? What exactly do taxpayers deserve? And I thought taxpayers only concern about agency lawyers is that they have sound judgment...

Top law school grads don’t have to be insufferable. In fact, being insufferable and being a high quality lawyer are mutually exclusive. I think the world could use a lot less insufferable-ness and a lot more humility and helpfulness. And gratitude to the taxpayers who pay our salaries.

[Anonymous]

I work with L at State quite a bit. They're good. Not sure what the dust up is about.

Some FSOs on the other hand, make me totally insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

You sound lovely. I wonder how many L lawyers you've actually met/dealt with. If you think they're insufferable and work with them in a professional capacity, you're probably one of the fools who thinks L cramps their style because they actually, gasp, care about the law and ensuring the accuracy of Department products. Luckily for me, your boss or your boss's boss usually cares and I can just go over your head when I need to.

I’m actually inside L and probably work with you. The snob factor lives here in L too. I think L and FSOs could both se a huge injection of humility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any civilian workplace where everyone's called an officer is asking for trouble.

+1

BINGO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the wife of an FSO, this thread has been so amusing to me! Especially the part about the furniture, LOL

You must be married to one of the cool ones if you are able to read this and find it amusing. I really am sorry about the furniture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

You sound lovely. I wonder how many L lawyers you've actually met/dealt with. If you think they're insufferable and work with them in a professional capacity, you're probably one of the fools who thinks L cramps their style because they actually, gasp, care about the law and ensuring the accuracy of Department products. Luckily for me, your boss or your boss's boss usually cares and I can just go over your head when I need to.

I’m actually inside L and probably work with you. The snob factor lives here in L too. I think L and FSOs could both se a huge injection of humility.

Of course there are snobs in L. There are snobs everywhere. But do you really think L is snottier than the average population? I don't at all. Certainly not the average similarly situated population (e.g., DC lawyers or State Department employees in general)? I don't at all. I think L folks have gotten more aggressive in this admin because we're so used to the political folks trying to steamroll us/cut us out of the process, but I don't think that's snootiness. I think most folks in L think the law genuinely matters and cares whether State and State products reflect it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any civilian workplace where everyone's called an officer is asking for trouble.

+1

BINGO.

Absolutely! Such an excellent point.

[Anonymous]

DH worked in L years ago and we have many FSO friends and acquaintances. On the whole, they're interesting, smart, and a whole lot of fun. We have loved visiting these folks in posts all over the world. And, BTW, their kids are often exceptionally well-mannered (we have hosted some of them as college and grad students working in the area).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Way to generalize. On second thought, I do iit too. For example, I can’t stand most lawyers. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that completing law school is some huge intellectual feat.

As a lawyer in another agency who sometimes deals with State lawyers, I hope you realize that most of them went to top law schools and did very well. I'd wager it's far, far harder to get a legal job at State than become an FSO.

This is unquestionably true. FSOs are a dime a dozen. Being a lawyer with State is far more impressive.

Yes, and those lawyers are totally insufferable, in my experience!

I think both of these statements are true. FSOs are insufferable. So are L lawyers. They deserve each other. The taxpayers deserve better.

You sound lovely. I wonder how many L lawyers you've actually met/dealt with. If you think they're insufferable and work with them in a professional capacity, you're probably one of the fools who thinks L cramps their style because they actually, gasp, care about the law and ensuring the accuracy of Department products. Luckily for me, your boss or your boss's boss usually cares and I can just go over your head when I need to.

I’m actually inside L and probably work with you. The snob factor lives here in L too. I think L and FSOs could both se a huge injection of humility.

Of course there are snobs in L. There are snobs everywhere. But do you really think L is snottier than the average population? I don't at all. Certainly not the average similarly situated population (e.g., DC lawyers or State Department employees in general)? I don't at all. I think L folks have gotten more aggressive in this admin because we're so used to the political folks trying to steamroll us/cut us out of the process, but I don't think that's snootiness. I think most folks in L think the law genuinely matters and cares whether State and State products reflect it.

I totally agree with you. Especially about this administration. I just also think L would be better with snobbery dampened down. It is not becoming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have several FSOs in our neighborhood and my spouse used to work at State in a support capacity. Yes, they are full of themselves. To be fair, the ones I know are actually smart and educated, but also rude and just not interested in talking about anything besides their jobs. They all hang out together, rent homes from one another, etc -- very insular -- and if you get two in a room they only talk about who else in State they both mutually know.

I'm in the Foreign Service and take offense at many of the characterizations being levied here (I don't think I'm full of myself and have never rented to or from a fellow DOS employee)- but the bit about getting two in a room and it becoming a "who you know" contest is too funny- and true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have several FSOs in our neighborhood and my spouse used to work at State in a support capacity. Yes, they are full of themselves. To be fair, the ones I know are actually smart and educated, but also rude and just not interested in talking about anything besides their jobs. They all hang out together, rent homes from one another, etc -- very insular -- and if you get two in a room they only talk about who else in State they both mutually know.

FSO here. I think this is somewhat true of some FSOs but I also think it varies by cone and people who have come in over the last 10-12 years are really changing the culture for the better. Please keep an open mind. You will find great people who care about you, what you do and what you offer.

So break down the cone stereotypes please! I used to want to be an FSO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have several FSOs in our neighborhood and my spouse used to work at State in a support capacity. Yes, they are full of themselves. To be fair, the ones I know are actually smart and educated, but also rude and just not interested in talking about anything besides their jobs. They all hang out together, rent homes from one another, etc -- very insular -- and if you get two in a room they only talk about who else in State they both mutually know.

I'm in the Foreign Service and take offense at many of the characterizations being levied here (I don't think I'm full of myself and have never rented to or from a fellow DOS employee)- but the bit about getting two in a room and it becoming a "who you know" contest is too funny- and true!

Taking offense is a good indicator that you're full of yourself. If you took a look around at the countries we pay to send you to instead of around the room to see who you know, you'd do a better job at what we're paying you to do. Focus. On. The. Job. Signed, your boss, a liberal internationalist taxpayer but tired of paying for out of touch snobs to trot all over the world living out an imaginary lifestyle

[Anonymous]

One of my best friends from my hometown is one, and he is super charming and down-to-earth. However, his coworkers that I have met are sort of odd and hard to talk to. I don't know how to explain my reservations about them, except to say that it is sort of a one sided conversation. I am sure it draws a mix of people, though.