Who exactly will be managing the CARES classrooms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

One group is unionized and the other is not. Unions, love them or hate them, were literally created to fight for safe working conditions (along with hours and wages). In fact, the disregard that DCPS has shown for concerns over safety speaks volumes about the need for teachers to be unionized.

What are you talking about? Paras are unionized, school office staff is unionized, principals have a union, and custodians are unionized. And if they forced teachers into the CARES classrooms too, who would be teaching the virtual classes that the kids in the CARES classrooms are supposed to be watching all day?

Or do you just mean that you want everyone back in school all the time regardless of very real safety concerns?

Well, this explains the dysfunction at every level of the educational system. Unionize everything and watch it stall in the time of crisis.
No one is actually in charge in this situation.

No, EVERYONE should be unionized. That would ensure that things were safer for everyone. Teachers and staff have elderly parents, immunocompromised dependents, and their own health issues, but ... I guess that doesn't matter. And please don't come at me with grocery store workers or other first responders - the solution isn't to make things LESS safe for one set of folks who thankfully have someone other than politicians looking out for their interests, it's to unionize everyone so no one is being exploited.

And as for "no one is in charge" - it is the FEDERAL government that has abdicated all responsibility, in the President's own words, so every jurisdiction is having to fend for themselves. I know people are angry and frustrated, and even with children in middle and high school, it's HARD to do distance learning, but I don't blame my kids' teachers for this situation, I blame the unchecked spread of coronavirus and the lack of response and the blinkered idiocy of some our fellow citizens. Just saw on 60 Minutes that Anthony Fauci has to have a bodyguard because he's facing death threats. That's how insane we are!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

[Anonymous]

God...the idea that an a kindergarten CARES class is apparently supposed to look like:

11 kindergarteners sitting on computers
1 Janet from Accounting, supervised by ???
0 ECE qualified adults
0 academic planning aside from whatever is coming through the computer
6 hours of empty time per day where the kids do ??? with an unqualified adult
0 support staff

This is insanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God...the idea that an a kindergarten CARES class is apparently supposed to look like:

11 kindergarteners sitting on computers
1 Janet from Accounting, supervised by ???
0 ECE qualified adults
0 academic planning aside from whatever is coming through the computer
6 hours of empty time per day where the kids do ??? with an unqualified adult
0 support staff

This is insanity.

And maybe 0 puzzles, games, or other shared entertainments during down times and rainy recesses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God...the idea that an a kindergarten CARES class is apparently supposed to look like:

11 kindergarteners sitting on computers
1 Janet from Accounting, supervised by ???
0 ECE qualified adults
0 academic planning aside from whatever is coming through the computer
6 hours of empty time per day where the kids do ??? with an unqualified adult
0 support staff

This is insanity.

And maybe 0 puzzles, games, or other shared entertainments during down times and rainy recesses?

It makes me really sad if this is what happens. It will be so inappropriate and possibly traumatizing for the littlest kids.

If anyone involved thinks about this even a little, it becomes clear that the adult in that classroom HAS to provide some other form of stimulation aside from the virtual classroom. And probably the adult should have some training and experience with early childhood education. And probably that stimulation should be marginally educational in form (lets face it--at k level, any organized activity is probably somewhat educational).

And that is a classroom. With a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God...the idea that an a kindergarten CARES class is apparently supposed to look like:

11 kindergarteners sitting on computers
1 Janet from Accounting, supervised by ???
0 ECE qualified adults
0 academic planning aside from whatever is coming through the computer
6 hours of empty time per day where the kids do ??? with an unqualified adult
0 support staff

This is insanity.

And maybe 0 puzzles, games, or other shared entertainments during down times and rainy recesses?

It's still completely stupid, but ftr central office employees will only be used for grades 2-5. At least that's what they are now being told.

Not that 11 eight year olds in this situation is much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

[Anonymous]

I’ve heard that the paraprofessional’s union is telling them that they should not be reassigned to lead roles. So I can not see them agreeing to have a CARES room of their own. I 100% agree with their union’s stance by the way, just thought I should mention since people are throwing their job title around a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

So true! I also was able to serve in helping hire and wow hiring is difficult. Especially the Special Education teacher position! It was by a miracle we found someone great, a miracle.

I assume it's also hard in the other high needs areas, math and science (I think).

Teachers are so important to the extent they know that and thus the WTU can try to leverage things. I think teachers do deserve everything, including being upper middle class or rich.

However not in this manner, I appreciate the teachers going back in person. I hope the WTU negotiates for safety but salary and Impact needs to be a separate negotiation. (not saying they aren't right now).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’ve heard that the paraprofessional’s union is telling them that they should not be reassigned to lead roles. So I can not see them agreeing to have a CARES room of their own. I 100% agree with their union’s stance by the way, just thought I should mention since people are throwing their job title around a lot.

Well yes, it's illegal. They aren't teachers, they cannot lead a class alone the whole time. However they can be alone for a while, in the case of specials, (but idk how that will work only PE will be in person) or nap time.

Also if you want to get technical, they actually can be in the room alone since they aren't leading the lesson, the teacher is. Their contract states they aren't expect to be leads or be without an ET-15 (teachers).

However it doesn't talk about the teacher being on the computer so this is uncharted territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’ve heard that the paraprofessional’s union is telling them that they should not be reassigned to lead roles. So I can not see them agreeing to have a CARES room of their own. I 100% agree with their union’s stance by the way, just thought I should mention since people are throwing their job title around a lot.

Para's should all be in person unless they can't, everyone's bashing teacher but my child's para just parrots the teacher and it's so annoying.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

We don't have to figure this out on our own. WHAT IS NYC doing?! Many families stayed DL and they are a hybrid plan so kids home some days. What did they do? Now do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

We don't have to figure this out on our own. WHAT IS NYC doing?! Many families stayed DL and they are a hybrid plan so kids home some days. What did they do? Now do that.

Right, but that is the not the plan the Mayor is making DCPS do. everyone thought the return to school would be hybrid, not that a small fraction of kids would go five days a week and the rest would have to be DL. Once a group of kids is DL only, you have to someone available to teach that group of kids (and now they will have more students). Hybrid would work with the staffing (but not give any students 5 days a week); this plan gives a few students (and depending on the size of the school, that might be anywhere from 10% to 25% of the students) 5 days a week, but the majority of the students distance learning only. But the biggest flaw with the entire plan is that it was announced 5 weeks before it was supposed to be implemented, before DCPS knew what the staffing looked like, and no one had any idea it was coming in this format.

NYC had to hire thousands of teachers in a very short time (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/ny-staffing-shortage-teacher-hiring-spree-20200922-yiojem4vgfcyhn3owhc7fbpr4y-story.html) and I'm absolutely certain that some of them were not people who would have been hired at all in normal circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

So true! I also was able to serve in helping hire and wow hiring is difficult. Especially the Special Education teacher position! It was by a miracle we found someone great, a miracle.

I assume it's also hard in the other high needs areas, math and science (I think).

Teachers are so important to the extent they know that and thus the WTU can try to leverage things. I think teachers do deserve everything, including being upper middle class or rich.

However not in this manner, I appreciate the teachers going back in person. I hope the WTU negotiates for safety but salary and Impact needs to be a separate negotiation. (not saying they aren't right now).

-
Yes, I agree the primary thing is safety for everyone. With IMPACT, though, they are going to be evaluated while doing totally different things - can't evaluate the in-person teachers the same way that you're evaluating the online teachers, because they are not teaching the same way. And the in-person teachers are going to have the "at risk" students, which can mean all kinds of things, but quite often mean that the kids require extra interventions, but now teachers won't have the reading/math specialists and pull-outs and all the rest of it to DO those interventions. I can see why they would want some clarity about IMPACT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is okay to put paras in the classrooms but not teachers? Is there a degree of safeness that is acceptable for some but not others? A two tiered system, one for teachers and one for less qualified workers? Sad thing is, it would be safe for teachers and students to return to the classroom if everybody wore masks(most important) and classes were smaller. This decision doesn't make any sense from a scientific/medical perspective.

It is that there are not enough teachers to cover the adult- student ratio needed to have small pods for safety.

Alright, so all of the teachers and then some of the paras. Or hire more teachers. It's preposterous to say "we don't have enough teachers, so instead let's not use any teachers."

Once again, if they put all the teachers in the classrooms to teach small cohorts five days a week WHO WILL TEACH THE DL that most of the students will have to have because of the size of the cohorts? This plan DOES NOT WORK if the teachers are all in the schools because its basis is that there will be a large group of students who continue with distance learning. The hybrid plan (which had its own issues, specifically about scheduling) might have worked in THIS regard, but it would still have reduced an individual child's in-person time to two days a week in person, because the teachers couldn't teach DL and face to face at the same time. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The blithe way you say "hire more teachers" makes it clear you've never been involved with hiring at a school (but you can be if you join your school's PTA). You see, schools are given BUDGETS, which are based on enrollment and which go into effect July 1. Also, in many instances budget allocation is fixed (for example, you're not allowed to suddenly decide that no, you don't want an art teacher (for example) and you'll use that teacher's salary to hire another PK teacher). At this point, there is NO MORE money to hire new teachers (or paras) when the Mayor comes up with a plan on October 5th that no one had heard anything about before that. Everyone assumed that if schools would go back, it would be using the hybrid model that they had touted early in the summer, not this five days a week for SOME students that came out of nowhere. Obviously, staffing needs are different in these two scenarios. Furthermore, hiring teachers and paras TAKES TIME, way more than the five weeks the Mayor decided to give DCPS. They have to interview, they have to pass background checks, and then they have to be brought on board - and by October, there isn't some giant pool of teachers from which to choose. One year, at my kids' former school, when I was involved with hiring, a teacher resigned two weeks before school started, and it took three months (and a major false start) to find a replacement, because the pool of teachers was SO shallow by that late in the hiring process.

Maybe everyone on DCUM has convinced themselves that teachers are no better than hired help who can easily be replaced, but that's not how it really works.

We don't have to figure this out on our own. WHAT IS NYC doing?! Many families stayed DL and they are a hybrid plan so kids home some days. What did they do? Now do that.

Right, but that is the not the plan the Mayor is making DCPS do. everyone thought the return to school would be hybrid, not that a small fraction of kids would go five days a week and the rest would have to be DL. Once a group of kids is DL only, you have to someone available to teach that group of kids (and now they will have more students). Hybrid would work with the staffing (but not give any students 5 days a week); this plan gives a few students (and depending on the size of the school, that might be anywhere from 10% to 25% of the students) 5 days a week, but the majority of the students distance learning only. But the biggest flaw with the entire plan is that it was announced 5 weeks before it was supposed to be implemented, before DCPS knew what the staffing looked like, and no one had any idea it was coming in this format.

NYC had to hire thousands of teachers in a very short time (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/ny-staffing-shortage-teacher-hiring-spree-20200922-yiojem4vgfcyhn3owhc7fbpr4y-story.html) and I'm absolutely certain that some of them were not people who would have been hired at all in normal circumstances.

Yea, we have to ditch the October announced plan and go back to the July never announced plan, revised to match whatever NYC did. If it means we open in Dec instead of November, fine.