maybe housing in dc isn't as expensive as everyone thinks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who would have thought housing in DC is cheaper than in Phoenix?

No one. Because it isn't.

Look at the numbers. Housing in Phoenix is more expensive than it is in Washington DC. You have to compare housing prices to incomes to know how expensive something is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:prices are high but so are incomes. practically everyone here makes a lot more money than they would doing the same job in most other places in this country. the only way to tell whether housing is expensive is to compare the cost of housing to how much people earn.

harvard has done that, and it suggests that while housing prices here are high, they're not as high as they are in denver or arizona or oregon (let alone places like new york city and san francisco and boston)

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/home-price-income-ratios

+1

People make a lot of money in DC, which means housing is not as expensive as it may seem

*Some* people make a lot of money.

Cops and teachers and secretaries make at least twice as much here as they do where I grew up.

The DC government pays a lot. Interns make $40,000. Administrative assistants approach $100,000.

https://dchr.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dchr/publication/attachments/public_body_employee_information_191231.pdf

Wow. $40,000 interns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:prices are high but so are incomes. practically everyone here makes a lot more money than they would doing the same job in most other places in this country. the only way to tell whether housing is expensive is to compare the cost of housing to how much people earn.

harvard has done that, and it suggests that while housing prices here are high, they're not as high as they are in denver or arizona or oregon (let alone places like new york city and san francisco and boston)

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/home-price-income-ratios

+1

People make a lot of money in DC, which means housing is not as expensive as it may seem

*Some* people make a lot of money.

Cops and teachers and secretaries make at least twice as much here as they do where I grew up.

The DC government pays a lot. Interns make $40,000. Administrative assistants approach $100,000.

https://dchr.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dchr/publication/attachments/public_body_employee_information_191231.pdf

Wow. $40,000 interns.

I skimmed that list pretty quickly and most of the full time, non-management jobs on the first couple pages are in the $60-80k range, which does not seem crazy at all, nor does it afford you a $600k house. There are a few "special assistants" making in the 90s, all listed directly underneath director positions, so I would imagine thats more of a senior executive assistant type job than your average admin assistant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half the city though is not livable because of high crime and terrible schools. It's easy to state things aren't expensive when you are looking across all values when half the properties included are in very high crime areas. No one wants to raise their family in an area where you have to risk life and death just to save on a mortgage.

Racist much?

Worthless without telling us where YOU live and your HHI.

It’s easy for the Bethesda and Upper Ward 3 crowd to call folks racist.

Until DC fully gentrifies (aka get rid of the low income poc East of the anacostia), DC will never meet its full potential. There’s so many good houses and neighborhoods with potential. Time for Mayor Bowser to raise the property taxes on ward 7 and 8.

I can’t wait until that issue is resolved. I’d like to buy at least two homes there.

Oh wow. You want full on "no black zones" to fully encompass DC. I'll give this to you though, at least you're point blank honest about your 1956 segregationist views.

Don’t be so incendiary. But what is so sacrosanct about the borders of the District? Cities change all the time. Areas in the city that were one predominantly Irish, Italian, or German Jewish immigrants became African-American. Now their composition is changing again. If renters EOTR face higher housing costs, PG County right next door has cheaper housing. (Longtime homeowners EOTR will make out well on any case.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half the city though is not livable because of high crime and terrible schools. It's easy to state things aren't expensive when you are looking across all values when half the properties included are in very high crime areas. No one wants to raise their family in an area where you have to risk life and death just to save on a mortgage.

Racist much?

Worthless without telling us where YOU live and your HHI.

It’s easy for the Bethesda and Upper Ward 3 crowd to call folks racist.

PP here. I live in one of those neighborhoods that cab drivers wouldn't go to 10 years ago because they thought it was too dangerous. It's a neighborhood that the entitled white guys who want to ban single-family homes now complain is "unaffordable." But they could have bought a house here too, and for less than the condos they want to build, if they weren't so afraid of black people.

Yes, it’s rich that advocates for upzoning and eliminating single family hike neighborhoods piously invoke “affordable” housing, when the reality is that they want to build more glass units with quartz countertops and another on the ground level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:prices are high but so are incomes. practically everyone here makes a lot more money than they would doing the same job in most other places in this country. the only way to tell whether housing is expensive is to compare the cost of housing to how much people earn.

harvard has done that, and it suggests that while housing prices here are high, they're not as high as they are in denver or arizona or oregon (let alone places like new york city and san francisco and boston)

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/home-price-income-ratios

+1

People make a lot of money in DC, which means housing is not as expensive as it may seem

*Some* people make a lot of money.

Cops and teachers and secretaries make at least twice as much here as they do where I grew up.

The DC government pays a lot. Interns make $40,000. Administrative assistants approach $100,000.

https://dchr.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dchr/publication/attachments/public_body_employee_information_191231.pdf

Wow. $40,000 interns.

Housing prices are high because everyone here makes a lot of money. Where I grew up, cops make $22,000 -- half of what a lowly intern for the city government makes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:prices are high but so are incomes. practically everyone here makes a lot more money than they would doing the same job in most other places in this country. the only way to tell whether housing is expensive is to compare the cost of housing to how much people earn.

harvard has done that, and it suggests that while housing prices here are high, they're not as high as they are in denver or arizona or oregon (let alone places like new york city and san francisco and boston)

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/home-price-income-ratios

+1

People make a lot of money in DC, which means housing is not as expensive as it may seem

*Some* people make a lot of money.

Cops and teachers and secretaries make at least twice as much here as they do where I grew up.

The DC government pays a lot. Interns make $40,000. Administrative assistants approach $100,000.

https://dchr.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dchr/publication/attachments/public_body_employee_information_191231.pdf

Wow. $40,000 interns.

Housing prices are high because everyone here makes a lot of money. Where I grew up, cops make $22,000 -- half of what a lowly intern for the city government makes.

The DC government is very generous with other people's money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half the city though is not livable because of high crime and terrible schools. It's easy to state things aren't expensive when you are looking across all values when half the properties included are in very high crime areas. No one wants to raise their family in an area where you have to risk life and death just to save on a mortgage.

Racist much?

Worthless without telling us where YOU live and your HHI.

It’s easy for the Bethesda and Upper Ward 3 crowd to call folks racist.

PP here. I live in one of those neighborhoods that cab drivers wouldn't go to 10 years ago because they thought it was too dangerous. It's a neighborhood that the entitled white guys who want to ban single-family homes now complain is "unaffordable." But they could have bought a house here too, and for less than the condos they want to build, if they weren't so afraid of black people.

Yes, it’s rich that advocates for upzoning and eliminating single family hike neighborhoods piously invoke “affordable” housing, when the reality is that they want to build more glass units with quartz countertops and another on the ground level.

I want more new market rate housing AND new committed affordable housing. You can include new committed AH in the new market rate buildings - general IZ rules, plus extra as part of PUDs. Plus the taxes from them help fund other AH. Also by giving more affluent people a place to live, they divert gentrification pressures.

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

I live in a hi rise in Alexandria - about 20% or so african american, about 20% or so mideastern.

As for the DC hipsters who move into a new condo (but really, most new units in DC are rentals) if they moved to a more AA neighborhood, they would displace working class AAs. That might be admirable in showing their willingness to move to a predominantly working class AA neighborhood, but it would make housing LESS affordable for working class AAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half the city though is not livable because of high crime and terrible schools. It's easy to state things aren't expensive when you are looking across all values when half the properties included are in very high crime areas. No one wants to raise their family in an area where you have to risk life and death just to save on a mortgage.

Racist much?

Worthless without telling us where YOU live and your HHI.

It’s easy for the Bethesda and Upper Ward 3 crowd to call folks racist.

Until DC fully gentrifies (aka get rid of the low income poc East of the anacostia), DC will never meet its full potential. There’s so many good houses and neighborhoods with potential. Time for Mayor Bowser to raise the property taxes on ward 7 and 8.

I can’t wait until that issue is resolved. I’d like to buy at least two homes there.

Oh wow. You want full on "no black zones" to fully encompass DC. I'll give this to you though, at least you're point blank honest about your 1956 segregationist views.

Don’t be so incendiary. But what is so sacrosanct about the borders of the District? Cities change all the time. Areas in the city that were one predominantly Irish, Italian, or German Jewish immigrants became African-American. Now their composition is changing again. If renters EOTR face higher housing costs, PG County right next door has cheaper housing. (Longtime homeowners EOTR will make out well on any case.)

1. When EOTR families are displaced, the disruption has real impacts on their lives

2. Beyond the one time disruption, this will mean longer commutes - costly in $, time, health.

3. As more renters from DC move to PG, thart will increase rents in PG, ultimately displacing people who already live there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

The vast majority of the "end SFH zoning" that I have encountered don't really care about "options" or even "affordability," it's all about punishing people richer than them for daring to be able to afford a SFH in DC. I've yet to meet one that specifically advocates for upzoning the entire city, it's always all about Ward 3 and WOTP. If you point out that there are just as many single family homes in NE and SE which could provide even more affordable housing than building on $800,000 lots in NW you get no response.

For the record, I'm 100% for eliminating single family zoning citywide. I just don't see any rational reason for limiting it to one specific area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

The vast majority of the "end SFH zoning" that I have encountered don't really care about "options" or even "affordability," it's all about punishing people richer than them for daring to be able to afford a SFH in DC. I've yet to meet one that specifically advocates for upzoning the entire city, it's always all about Ward 3 and WOTP. If you point out that there are just as many single family homes in NE and SE which could provide even more affordable housing than building on $800,000 lots in NW you get no response.

For the record, I'm 100% for eliminating single family zoning citywide. I just don't see any rational reason for limiting it to one specific area.

One of the biggest advocates for gentle density and for eliminating SFH zoning in Ward 3, who consults with OP and opines on housing issues for a big DC think tank, lives in a SF home in Crestwood. Ironically, this is one of several Ward 4 neighborhoods that are slated for more zoning protections in OP’s draft amendments to various elements of the Comprehensive Palm!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

The vast majority of the "end SFH zoning" that I have encountered don't really care about "options" or even "affordability," it's all about punishing people richer than them for daring to be able to afford a SFH in DC. I've yet to meet one that specifically advocates for upzoning the entire city, it's always all about Ward 3 and WOTP. If you point out that there are just as many single family homes in NE and SE which could provide even more affordable housing than building on $800,000 lots in NW you get no response.

For the record, I'm 100% for eliminating single family zoning citywide. I just don't see any rational reason for limiting it to one specific area.

I cannot speak about people you personally know. Most advocates for upzoning I know want broader change. But there is a rational reason to focus upzoning on high income areas - those are areas most in demand (econ 101 suggests that is where the greatest added utility is), those are areas where added density means most tax dollars - that is where the most opportunity hoarding has occurred - its where even ordinary middle class people have been kept out and its generally where the least existing committed AH is. And if you buy the argument that "high rises lead to amenities leads to gentrification" its the area where that is least likely to be a problem, because its already gentry.


Also I don't see how its punishing anyone. If anything, its allowing you to build something else if YOU want to.

Unless you are someone looking to buy a SFH in W3, and don't want to have to compete with a developer who might build condos for someone less rich than you. And you want the police powers of the state to make your purchase of a SFH easier, by banning other forms of development.

In which case I think the anger at folks like you is pretty understandable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:prices are high but so are incomes. practically everyone here makes a lot more money than they would doing the same job in most other places in this country. the only way to tell whether housing is expensive is to compare the cost of housing to how much people earn.

harvard has done that, and it suggests that while housing prices here are high, they're not as high as they are in denver or arizona or oregon (let alone places like new york city and san francisco and boston)

https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/home-price-income-ratios

Housing is cheaper here than it looks.

Not just because incomes for pretty much everyone are so high, but also because the public transportation system is so well developed -- people here don't need to spend nearly so much on cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

The vast majority of the "end SFH zoning" that I have encountered don't really care about "options" or even "affordability," it's all about punishing people richer than them for daring to be able to afford a SFH in DC. I've yet to meet one that specifically advocates for upzoning the entire city, it's always all about Ward 3 and WOTP. If you point out that there are just as many single family homes in NE and SE which could provide even more affordable housing than building on $800,000 lots in NW you get no response.

For the record, I'm 100% for eliminating single family zoning citywide. I just don't see any rational reason for limiting it to one specific area.

One of the biggest advocates for gentle density and for eliminating SFH zoning in Ward 3, who consults with OP and opines on housing issues for a big DC think tank, lives in a SF home in Crestwood. Ironically, this is one of several Ward 4 neighborhoods that are slated for more zoning protections in OP’s draft amendments to various elements of the Comprehensive Palm!

This seems grossly abusive and hypocritical. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" syndrome??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And no one seriously wants to ban SFHs. They want to end SFH only zoning. To allow people more options on what to do with their property.

The vast majority of the "end SFH zoning" that I have encountered don't really care about "options" or even "affordability," it's all about punishing people richer than them for daring to be able to afford a SFH in DC. I've yet to meet one that specifically advocates for upzoning the entire city, it's always all about Ward 3 and WOTP. If you point out that there are just as many single family homes in NE and SE which could provide even more affordable housing than building on $800,000 lots in NW you get no response.

For the record, I'm 100% for eliminating single family zoning citywide. I just don't see any rational reason for limiting it to one specific area.

I cannot speak about people you personally know. Most advocates for upzoning I know want broader change. But there is a rational reason to focus upzoning on high income areas - those are areas most in demand (econ 101 suggests that is where the greatest added utility is), those are areas where added density means most tax dollars - that is where the most opportunity hoarding has occurred - its where even ordinary middle class people have been kept out and its generally where the least existing committed AH is. And if you buy the argument that "high rises lead to amenities leads to gentrification" its the area where that is least likely to be a problem, because its already gentry.


Also I don't see how its punishing anyone. If anything, its allowing you to build something else if YOU want to.

Unless you are someone looking to buy a SFH in W3, and don't want to have to compete with a developer who might build condos for someone less rich than you. And you want the police powers of the state to make your purchase of a SFH easier, by banning other forms of development.

In which case I think the anger at folks like you is pretty understandable

Why would high income areas be most 'in demand'? I would assume that the housing is $ because the houses are big etc. I would think mixed income with deals are most in demand, and also a place to focus on--especially with an eye to bringing in residents and improving schools. What about the area around Catholic U, or Ward 8. So much opportunity there!