MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.

The information about MCPS percentile is out there. I'm assuming they're choosing not to draw attention to it at the point when people's emotions are most amped up - as they are opening to actual letter.

The information may be "out there", but when 100% of parents receive a certain form letter with the reduced, incomplete (but doesn't appear incomplete) information, you can't fault parents for not realizing they haven't gotten the complete information. It's not like they said "for more the full info on what MCPS means, including the 'norming' process which is not discussed here, please see the FAQs." They appear to provide a definition of the MCPS % in the letter.
They just list "reviewing the FAQs" as a next step, along with exploring options at the local MS. They should have said, "there is more information about the test scoring and other issues here at this link."

They could do that. I am assuming that the fact that they don't is quite intentional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So glad DC’s letter didn’t come today so I can needlessly obsess about this again tomorrow. DC’s scores seem to be in line with kids who have reported getting in, which makes the guessing game even more fun.

Right there with you, sister!

Have I completely entered Crazy Town territory if I ask the sitter to open it and send me a picture so I can see the results? I would just wait til
I get home, but the home MS orientation meeting is tonight, and I have to go there straight from work. I might have different questions about the home MS, depending on whether a magnet is an option. Crazy, or Not Crazy?

Glad I asked sitter for the report. Recommended for both. Off DCUM and back to work!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

MCPS has no information about the socioeconomic status of the home elementary school, or about the socioeconomic status of the students in the home elementary school.

What you're referring to is percent of students in poverty (defined as qualifying for free/reduced meals). High-poverty, moderate-poverty, or low-poverty schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

Mostly just keep in mind that MCPS is sending out their own % to push back on the concept that a “99% kid” is so exceptional. So they are showing you where your child lies in relation to other tested kids in MCPS. They didn’t test all MCPS kids, so it makes sense that 99% nationally would equate to a lower percentile in MCPS where they were only testing higher-achieving kids they thought might benefit from the magnets. This does NOT necessarily mean that MCPS kids overall test higher on the CoGAT than nationally, although MCPS might like you to believe that. MCPS have been elusive about exactly how much they adjust the scores to account for FARMS, probably because it is a made-up number based on a fairly random subset of kids and used solely for the purpose of showing you that while your child may be 1 in a 100, they aren’t necessarily 1 in 1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

The thing that makes sense is grouping students based on the MS they would be attending, because that's their natural cohort. If the actual breakdown is less granular that would also make sense, e.g. the MS are grouped into broader categories. But the students at the CES are not the cohort, except when they come from the same MS pyramid. Norms make more sense the more individuals there are to compare, so calculating for each ES doesn't seem appropriate--a small ES may have had fewer than 30 students screened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

The thing that makes sense is grouping students based on the MS they would be attending, because that's their natural cohort. If the actual breakdown is less granular that would also make sense, e.g. the MS are grouped into broader categories. But the students at the CES are not the cohort, except when they come from the same MS pyramid. Norms make more sense the more individuals there are to compare, so calculating for each ES doesn't seem appropriate--a small ES may have had fewer than 30 students screened.

They don't calculate it for each elementary school. They calculate it for three different groups among county-wide 5th graders based on whether the school they attend is low, medium, or high poverty. My guess is that means the three groups are students who attend Title I, Focus, and no such designation schools. So if your student attends a low poverty ES, which is not Title I or Focus, your "MCPS%" is compared to the other MCPS 5th graders who took the test and attend non-Focus, non-Title I elementary schools. MCPS has never said how it determines what schools are "high" "medium" or "low" poverty for this purpose, so it might not map exactly to the Title I, Focus, neither, designations.

[Anonymous]

Can I ask you kind folks a really stupid question? The letter we received yesterday says that our son is "Recommended" for both the Humanities program at Eastern and the Math etc. program at Takoma Park. For each, the letter includes the following sentence "Your student is recommended for placement in the program. You may accept or decline your seat by Friday, February 7, 2020 using this link…".

Is "Recommended" basically the same as "Accepted Unless You Decline or Fail to Respond?" If we want to send him to one of the magnets, do we just click on the link, and check the yes box, and he's in? Or is this step 1 of the application process?

Please feel to direct me to a different thread if there is one that covers the very basics. TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask you kind folks a really stupid question? The letter we received yesterday says that our son is "Recommended" for both the Humanities program at Eastern and the Math etc. program at Takoma Park. For each, the letter includes the following sentence "Your student is recommended for placement in the program. You may accept or decline your seat by Friday, February 7, 2020 using this link…".

Is "Recommended" basically the same as "Accepted Unless You Decline or Fail to Respond?" If we want to send him to one of the magnets, do we just click on the link, and check the yes box, and he's in? Or is this step 1 of the application process?

Please feel to direct me to a different thread if there is one that covers the very basics. TIA!

Yup!

[Anonymous]

Quantitative 95% -> 74% MCPS
Our average ES is not even a “W” and has no CES
However nonverbal is 99% -> 95 MCPS why such big difference ? Drop of 21 % vs only 4 % in different categories???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

The thing that makes sense is grouping students based on the MS they would be attending, because that's their natural cohort. If the actual breakdown is less granular that would also make sense, e.g. the MS are grouped into broader categories. But the students at the CES are not the cohort, except when they come from the same MS pyramid. Norms make more sense the more individuals there are to compare, so calculating for each ES doesn't seem appropriate--a small ES may have had fewer than 30 students screened.

They don't calculate it for each elementary school. They calculate it for three different groups among county-wide 5th graders based on whether the school they attend is low, medium, or high poverty. My guess is that means the three groups are students who attend Title I, Focus, and no such designation schools. So if your student attends a low poverty ES, which is not Title I or Focus, your "MCPS%" is compared to the other MCPS 5th graders who took the test and attend non-Focus, non-Title I elementary schools. MCPS has never said how it determines what schools are "high" "medium" or "low" poverty for this purpose, so it might not map exactly to the Title I, Focus, neither, designations.

Agreed with the bold statement above.

Also, the number of high-, medium-, low- poverty schools may not be the same. There are approximately 150 ES in MCPS, there could be 10 high-, 20 med-, and 130 low-. Not necessarily 50 ES in each categories.

MCPS is really making this not transparent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?

So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.

That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.

My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?

Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.

"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."

That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.

PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf

For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).

Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.

Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.

So if my DC's home ES also has a CES, how, using your explanation, does MCPS sort this out? CES children's results are not mapped to that CES?..rather, they are mapped to their home ES instead? I'll see if the other thread quoted by PP above has any updates. My main concern is whether my DC's relatively lower %iles this time round are what it appears, or if it is just a matter of higher baselines (or whatever the technical term is).

The thing that makes sense is grouping students based on the MS they would be attending, because that's their natural cohort. If the actual breakdown is less granular that would also make sense, e.g. the MS are grouped into broader categories. But the students at the CES are not the cohort, except when they come from the same MS pyramid. Norms make more sense the more individuals there are to compare, so calculating for each ES doesn't seem appropriate--a small ES may have had fewer than 30 students screened.

They don't calculate it for each elementary school. They calculate it for three different groups among county-wide 5th graders based on whether the school they attend is low, medium, or high poverty. My guess is that means the three groups are students who attend Title I, Focus, and no such designation schools. So if your student attends a low poverty ES, which is not Title I or Focus, your "MCPS%" is compared to the other MCPS 5th graders who took the test and attend non-Focus, non-Title I elementary schools. MCPS has never said how it determines what schools are "high" "medium" or "low" poverty for this purpose, so it might not map exactly to the Title I, Focus, neither, designations.

Agreed with the bold statement above.

Also, the number of high-, medium-, low- poverty schools may not be the same. There are approximately 150 ES in MCPS, there could be 10 high-, 20 med-, and 120 low-. Not necessarily 50 ES in each categories.

MCPS is really making this not transparent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So glad DC’s letter didn’t come today so I can needlessly obsess about this again tomorrow. DC’s scores seem to be in line with kids who have reported getting in, which makes the guessing game even more fun.

Right there with you, sister!

Have I completely entered Crazy Town territory if I ask the sitter to open it and send me a picture so I can see the results? I would just wait til
I get home, but the home MS orientation meeting is tonight, and I have to go there straight from work. I might have different questions about the home MS, depending on whether a magnet is an option. Crazy, or Not Crazy?

Glad I asked sitter for the report. Recommended for both. Off DCUM and back to work!

Congratulations!!!

[Anonymous]

DC got waitlisted at MLK, not recommended for Roberto, can we appeal even when not recommended for Roberto Clemente?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask you kind folks a really stupid question? The letter we received yesterday says that our son is "Recommended" for both the Humanities program at Eastern and the Math etc. program at Takoma Park. For each, the letter includes the following sentence "Your student is recommended for placement in the program. You may accept or decline your seat by Friday, February 7, 2020 using this link…".

Is "Recommended" basically the same as "Accepted Unless You Decline or Fail to Respond?" If we want to send him to one of the magnets, do we just click on the link, and check the yes box, and he's in? Or is this step 1 of the application process?

Please feel to direct me to a different thread if there is one that covers the very basics. TIA!

Yup!

Unless it is different this year, we had to go to the link and officially accept / decline. It was actually a link to a google form where you entered the kids info and either accepted or declined and it had to be done by the deadline. So invited, but you still need to accept or decline.