City Plan to Diversity and Fill Selective High Schools Not Controversial like NYC's

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should the standards be equal to apply to SWW, Banneker, McKinley Tech, and Phelps? Their missions/focus are quite different.

How are SWW and Banneker’s missions different exactly? Both are rigorous college prep schools.

I always thought Banneker was more STEM/Math focused while SWW was more general. Sort of like the difference between MIT and Harvard. Both good schools but different.

That being said, I could be way off base though.

Nope. Very similar mission; both 5-star schools. The demographics are the big difference between them.

Banneker has higher PARCC scores and is majority-minority with only 2% white students. It offers both AP and IB classes.

SWW offers a ton of AP classes and is 47% white.

Come on, Banneker's average SAT scores are only a tad higher than the national average, and they haven't produced a single National Merit scholarship semifinalist in a decade. The segregated program serving mainly low SES students is certainly not on a par with Walls academically. The latter school mostly attracts mostly UMC students. Walls always has at least one semifinalist and in 2014 they produced a bumper crop: five. No point in pretending that "demographics" vs. "academics" are the big difference between the two schools. PC nonsense.

Oh yay, it's the Trash Banneker poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should the standards be equal to apply to SWW, Banneker, McKinley Tech, and Phelps? Their missions/focus are quite different.

How are SWW and Banneker’s missions different exactly? Both are rigorous college prep schools.

I always thought Banneker was more STEM/Math focused while SWW was more general. Sort of like the difference between MIT and Harvard. Both good schools but different.

That being said, I could be way off base though.

Nope. Very similar mission; both 5-star schools. The demographics are the big difference between them.

Banneker has higher PARCC scores and is majority-minority with only 2% white students. It offers both AP and IB classes.

SWW offers a ton of AP classes and is 47% white.

Come on, Banneker's average SAT scores are only a tad higher than the national average, and they haven't produced a single National Merit scholarship semifinalist in a decade. The segregated program serving mainly low SES students is certainly not on a par with Walls academically. The latter school mostly attracts mostly UMC students. Walls always has at least one semifinalist and in 2014 they produced a bumper crop: five. No point in pretending that "demographics" vs. "academics" are the big difference between the two schools. PC nonsense.

Do you realize that demographics = socio-economic AND racial factors, which you note that Banneker isn't on par because it is mainly low-SES students. In fact, only 25% of Banneker students are at-risk (vs SWW's 10%). However Banneker is 75% AA, 17% Latino, 2% white, and 3% Asian (Walls: 29% AA, 12% Latino, 47% white and 7% Asian). The racial factor IS significant, especially when you are discussing average SAT scores.

The national average is 1060. Banneker's is 1109; SWW is 1272.

So, both schools are about 150-200 points higher than average if you compare Banneker's average to AA or Latino (national AA average is 960 and Latino is 946).
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/10/29/sat-scores-are-gaps-remain-significant-among-racial-and-ethnic-groups

Right. And frankly - ONE national merit finalist is not that impressive for Walls. My high school (just a run of the mill college-town public) had at least 10.

[Anonymous]

BASIS has one too - out of a class of 40 (last year there were 2/42). Only the private’s should be bragging.

[Anonymous]

You posters are clueless about how NMSF works in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You posters are clueless about how NMSF works in DC.

Then do something useful and enlighten the masses...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You posters are clueless about how NMSF works in DC.

DC has the highest cut score in country, equal to MA and NJ. The score my kids in DC got would have meant they were finalists if we lived anywhere except those 3 places.

Students complete based on the state their high school is in vs where they live. Each year, most of DC’s finalists attend private schools and maybe 5-10 attend public schools. not insignificant number of DC’s NMSF live in MD or VA but attend one of the private schools in the city. Given that I, unlike one of the other PPs, don’t think that is a meaningful way to compare high schools.

What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Compete

[Anonymous]

Why do so many people act like DC schools are improving. It seems like smoke and mirrors to me. DC is constantly lowering the standards and then acting like kids are doing better. They have not been able to move the needle on regular high schools or middle schools. In fact, my sense is that Wilson is slightly worse than a few years ago. It certainly is not improving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You posters are clueless about how NMSF works in DC.

DC has the highest cut score in country, equal to MA and NJ. The score my kids in DC got would have meant they were finalists if we lived anywhere except those 3 places.

Students complete based on the state their high school is in vs where they live. Each year, most of DC’s finalists attend private schools and maybe 5-10 attend public schools. not insignificant number of DC’s NMSF live in MD or VA but attend one of the private schools in the city. Given that I, unlike one of the other PPs, don’t think that is a meaningful way to compare high schools.

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that the PSAT just isn't a tough test, no matter what the state cut-off score may be.

I'm from MA. I scored above the cut-off coming from an ordinary small town high school - more of my classmates joined the military or went on to community colleges than to four-year programs. My siblings were also semifinalists, as was my immigrant spouse in NYC and his sibling. My spouse's parents still struggle with English.

Give us a break- PSAT math was easy then and is easy now, and the verbal section has never presented any great challenge for a committed bookworm. The fact that the semifinalist tally in DC public remains in the single digits after an epic demographic shift in the City in the last two decades not only gives me pause, it forces me to question how good any of our public schools really are. The selective HS admissions system needs to change. Copy Chicago, Boston or NYC, don't stick with this highly discretionary nonsense for political reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BASIS has one too - out of a class of 40 (last year there were 2/42). Only the private’s should be bragging.

Yes, you're right. Pathetic showing for both DCPS and DCPCS in 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many people act like DC schools are improving. It seems like smoke and mirrors to me. DC is constantly lowering the standards and then acting like kids are doing better. They have not been able to move the needle on regular high schools or middle schools. In fact, my sense is that Wilson is slightly worse than a few years ago. It certainly is not improving.

Well you have to move the needle on ES first, and it has been.

The most consistent measure, that is respected is the NAEP which measures 4th and 8th grade. DC is one of the few jurisdictions across the country whose scores are improving. Our scores are below the national average, but not stagnating or falling like Virginia and Maryland.

From the Post in Oct 2019: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-is-a-bright-spot-in-the-nations-overall-lackluster-standardized-test-results/2019/10/29/0c386ea2-fa51-11e9-8190-6be4deb56e01_story.html

... “There is clearly something good happening in D.C. when it comes to eighth-grade scores,” said Matthew Chingos, vice president of education data and policy at the Urban Institute .

The increase was driven largely by the performance of Hispanic students, who scored an average of 250 points on the exam, an eight-point increase since 2017. Black eighth-grade students had a one-point increase to 241 on the reading exam, and white students registered a one-point decline to 299.

Even so, a significant achievement gap persists between white students in the District and their Hispanic and black peers, although the gaps narrowed on this year’s test.

Overall, black, Hispanic and white students made gains on the test, and Kang said the city’s overall growth on the test cannot be attributed to demographic shifts in the city. ..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another anecdote from Walls. My kid is a 9th grader there so this is our first year. She breezed through Deal doing minimal work. Got 5s on PARCC every year. Kid loves to read so I think that really helped build skills. Did not study even for 1 min for Walls test because didn’t think she wanted to go there. Found the test super easy. Ended up going there for various reasons. Likes it but is struggling with managing the work load. It is a very big step up from Deal 8th grade. I guess what I am trying to say is that pushing kids in to Walls who can’t even pass the test or get a 4 on the PARCC and who may not have a good attendance record is a recipe for disaster. Walls will have to lower its standards significantly. How does that help anyone?

+100. Either you fail the kids or make the curriculum easier. We all know which one DCPS will do. It’s really a joke. It’s not like you are expecting the kids to be superstars on PARCC to apply to Walls last year with PARCC. The requirement was easy, grade level people. Grade level.

My kid is bored at Walls. Wishes they’d stayed at BASIS.

I dearly wish that BASIS would relocate to a building with strong facilities (gym, stage, outdoor space, computer lab library, good art room), hire a stable leader and expand dramatically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many people act like DC schools are improving. It seems like smoke and mirrors to me. DC is constantly lowering the standards and then acting like kids are doing better. They have not been able to move the needle on regular high schools or middle schools. In fact, my sense is that Wilson is slightly worse than a few years ago. It certainly is not improving.

Well you have to move the needle on ES first, and it has been.

The most consistent measure, that is respected is the NAEP which measures 4th and 8th grade. DC is one of the few jurisdictions across the country whose scores are improving. Our scores are below the national average, but not stagnating or falling like Virginia and Maryland.

From the Post in Oct 2019: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-is-a-bright-spot-in-the-nations-overall-lackluster-standardized-test-results/2019/10/29/0c386ea2-fa51-11e9-8190-6be4deb56e01_story.html

... “There is clearly something good happening in D.C. when it comes to eighth-grade scores,” said Matthew Chingos, vice president of education data and policy at the Urban Institute .

The increase was driven largely by the performance of Hispanic students, who scored an average of 250 points on the exam, an eight-point increase since 2017. Black eighth-grade students had a one-point increase to 241 on the reading exam, and white students registered a one-point decline to 299.

Even so, a significant achievement gap persists between white students in the District and their Hispanic and black peers, although the gaps narrowed on this year’s test.

Overall, black, Hispanic and white students made gains on the test, and Kang said the city’s overall growth on the test cannot be attributed to demographic shifts in the city. ..."

So DC is making good progress in bringing up the bottom. Fine, credit where it's due. But DCPS and DCPCS clearly aren't doing that in supporting the strongest students, although their ranks have swelled in the last decade.

PARCC scores don't begin to tell the whole story. The Urban Institute knows that. Pipe down Matthew Chingos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You posters are clueless about how NMSF works in DC.

DC has the highest cut score in country, equal to MA and NJ. The score my kids in DC got would have meant they were finalists if we lived anywhere except those 3 places.

Students complete based on the state their high school is in vs where they live. Each year, most of DC’s finalists attend private schools and maybe 5-10 attend public schools. not insignificant number of DC’s NMSF live in MD or VA but attend one of the private schools in the city. Given that I, unlike one of the other PPs, don’t think that is a meaningful way to compare high schools.

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that the PSAT just isn't a tough test, no matter what the state cut-off score may be.

I'm from MA. I scored above the cut-off coming from an ordinary small town high school - more of my classmates joined the military or went on to community colleges than to four-year programs. My siblings were also semifinalists, as was my immigrant spouse in NYC and his sibling. My spouse's parents still struggle with English.

Give us a break- PSAT math was easy then and is easy now, and the verbal section has never presented any great challenge for a committed bookworm. The fact that the semifinalist tally in DC public remains in the single digits after an epic demographic shift in the City in the last two decades not only gives me pause, it forces me to question how good any of our public schools really are. The selective HS admissions system needs to change. Copy Chicago, Boston or NYC, don't stick with this highly discretionary nonsense for political reasons.

Goodness me, I am pretty sure I went to high school with ten of the likes of you, and now here you are on DCUM. By that I mean, snobby bragging nerds with a superiority complex.

I too was one of these semifinalists, and I remember it being hard, and doing test prep at my school, and that there were not very many of us despite going to a top suburban public school with a huge population. I was very proud to be one. I think you should go back to your fake meritocracy bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many people act like DC schools are improving. It seems like smoke and mirrors to me. DC is constantly lowering the standards and then acting like kids are doing better. They have not been able to move the needle on regular high schools or middle schools. In fact, my sense is that Wilson is slightly worse than a few years ago. It certainly is not improving.

Well you have to move the needle on ES first, and it has been.

The most consistent measure, that is respected is the NAEP which measures 4th and 8th grade. DC is one of the few jurisdictions across the country whose scores are improving. Our scores are below the national average, but not stagnating or falling like Virginia and Maryland.

From the Post in Oct 2019: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-is-a-bright-spot-in-the-nations-overall-lackluster-standardized-test-results/2019/10/29/0c386ea2-fa51-11e9-8190-6be4deb56e01_story.html

... “There is clearly something good happening in D.C. when it comes to eighth-grade scores,” said Matthew Chingos, vice president of education data and policy at the Urban Institute .

The increase was driven largely by the performance of Hispanic students, who scored an average of 250 points on the exam, an eight-point increase since 2017. Black eighth-grade students had a one-point increase to 241 on the reading exam, and white students registered a one-point decline to 299.

Even so, a significant achievement gap persists between white students in the District and their Hispanic and black peers, although the gaps narrowed on this year’s test.

Overall, black, Hispanic and white students made gains on the test, and Kang said the city’s overall growth on the test cannot be attributed to demographic shifts in the city. ..."

No, you don't necessarily have to move the ES needle first. You have to retain your strongest students system-wide, rather than losing most of them to the burbs, privates and UMC-friendly charters like Latin and BASIS.

If you doubt this, look at what MoCo did with Blair Montgomery HS, in Silver Spring, in the 80s. Rather than spending a decade or two "moving the needle no ES first" to raise HS standards, the county created two kick-ass test-in HS programs with a county-wide draw, one for humanities, the other for STEM. The new programs were housed them in a struggling overwhelmingly low SES minority HS. After just a few years, affluent parents living on the western side of the county (Bethesda, Rockville area) had started beating down the door to send their teens to Blair. The influx of high SES students dramatically revitalized the whole school - leadership, facility, programming. The same could happen in DC at a failing HS like Eastern if the MS bridge wasn't being lost.