Math 7 Honors vs. Algebra

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay flame away but which is better for TJ app? All As in math with algebra 1 in 8th grade or possibly a B in the mix and algebra 1 in 7th grade?

Why on earth would you have a kid with a b in algebra honors apply to tj? Do you think that’s wise?

Does it matter? The kid with a B in Alg I honors isn’t going to be accepted to TJ without a very compelling reason for the B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The important question then is whether kids who barely pass the Algebra SOL in 8th grade would have been better served by waiting a year for Algebra.

I think that would be answered by how they do in subsequent math classes. If they pass subsewuent classes (passing grade), then what difference does it make if they " would have bern better served" by taking it a year later? What does that even mean? There are probably non-quantifiable effects of being told "you can do this" -- the same effects that they report for kids who take AP even if they don't pass the exam. The chsllenge and the message have a positive effect.

If a kid barely passes the Algebra SOL in 8th, the kid has some serious foundational gaps. It's likely that the kid would have fewer gaps if Algebra had been taken in 9th with an extra year in 8th to address those gaps. The math builds upon itself each year, so it's unlikely that a kid who struggled in Algebra I would suddenly be thriving in Algebra II, pre-calc, or calc.

There are also non-quantifiable effects of struggling year after year in a subject. Working your ass off for a poor grade is more likely to discourage kids from STEM than it is to have any sort of positive effect.

The bottom line is whether FCPS is encouraging more kids to take Algebra by 8th because it's beneficial to the kids, or whether they're doing so because it makes FCPS look better. The same is true for encouraging more AP course participation. If it's a net positive for the kids, great. If it's not helping the kids at all, but is only happening so FCPS can boost its ratings, that's horrible.

Counterpoint on whether kids should be pushed forward:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the-best-little-schoolhouse-in-oregon-and-how-it-go-to-be-that-way/2019/09/17/418b3264-d5b3-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the-power-of-changing-your-mind-or-how-a-teacher-came-to-believe-in-his-students/2019/11/22/db620816-0b39-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

[Anonymous]

In the article, nearly all of the kids took 10+ AP exams, but only 65% passed at least one. I wouldn't call a model wherein over 1/3 of the kids took around 10 AP exams each, and failed all 10 of them a huge success. It is a strong argument that gen ed needs increased rigor, though.

[Anonymous]

The way it should be

1. All the kids in AAP are already smart

2. The majority of kids should be taking Math 7 honors and then Algebra in 8th which still sets you up for Calc BC senior year with no doubling up in math which is plenty of math and will get you into top schools (really only one year of Calculus is necessary)

3. Algebra 1 in 7th should be reserved for those truly gifted in Math and with a serious interest in STEM/TJ only

The reality is there are too many pushy helicopter parents pushing kids into Algebra 1 in 7th for no good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way it should be

1. All the kids in AAP are already smart

2. The majority of kids should be taking Math 7 honors and then Algebra in 8th which still sets you up for Calc BC senior year with no doubling up in math which is plenty of math and will get you into top schools (really only one year of Calculus is necessary)

3. Algebra 1 in 7th should be reserved for those truly gifted in Math and with a serious interest in STEM/TJ only

The reality is there are too many pushy helicopter parents pushing kids into Algebra 1 in 7th for no good reason.

Agree. My daughter may be taking Algebra in 7th (if she passes test), and I will let her because she wants to, she enjoys it, and she is good at it. She will not likely go into a stem field, she’s a bookworm, but who knows. She’s so young, too early to know for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really hope this is conjecture. I'm so sick of this liberal BS from the states trying to "socially engineer" society. Hey FCPS school board, listen very closely - No matter what you do to manipulate the school system, Asians will always score higher. That's a fact not an opinion. If you dont like it tough. Signed, White Dad.

FCPS flat out has a goal of eliminating racial and economic gaps in Algebra I participation by 8th grade. The goal isn't feasible without a lot of social engineering + watering down the Algebra content so the kids crammed into Algebra who aren't ready don't fail. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BHLM3U58FE4A/$file/Goal%201_StudentSuccessReport_F1.pdf pg 37-38

The part about discouraging Asian and white achievement is conjecture. If they can't close the achievement gap by bringing up the bottom, they can close it by bringing down the top.

At DC's school, I know white and Asian kids who didn't make the benchmark for either the sol or the IATT who were still placed in Algebra 1 honors in 7th grade. I don't see where the school is actively discouraging white and Asian kids from taking the class. If your child is in a highly competitive school with lots of kids who easily meet both benchmarks, then the school might discourage borderline kids from taking the class. Not because of race, but because they already have a strong cohort of kids, and the borderline kids might have problems keeping up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way it should be

1. All the kids in AAP are already smart

2. The majority of kids should be taking Math 7 honors and then Algebra in 8th which still sets you up for Calc BC senior year with no doubling up in math which is plenty of math and will get you into top schools (really only one year of Calculus is necessary)

3. Algebra 1 in 7th should be reserved for those truly gifted in Math and with a serious interest in STEM/TJ only

The reality is there are too many pushy helicopter parents pushing kids into Algebra 1 in 7th for no good reason.

Agree. My daughter may be taking Algebra in 7th (if she passes test), and I will let her because she wants to, she enjoys it, and she is good at it. She will not likely go into a stem field, she’s a bookworm, but who knows. She’s so young, too early to know for sure.

Our son just made the cut-off for the IAAT and just made the cut-off for pass advanced on SOLs and wasn't interested in STEM so we opted to have him go into Math 7H despite qualifying for algebra. He coasted in 7H with an A and never studying and then got a low B in Algebra (which turned out to be his lowest HS grade). In retrospect I think we should have put him into Algebra in 7th and then let him retake it in 8th if he bombed. He learned some bad habits when the math was too easy at the start of middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only a small percentage of TJ spplicants take Alg in 8th grade. Most take it in 7th or 6th. If in 7th, many will take summer Geometry do that they are taking Alg II in 8th.

There is no possible way to take Algebra in 6th grade!!! All the elementary schools in W. Fairfax county can only start as early as 7th grade!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a small percentage of TJ spplicants take Alg in 8th grade. Most take it in 7th or 6th. If in 7th, many will take summer Geometry do that they are taking Alg II in 8th.

There is no possible way to take Algebra in 6th grade!!! All the elementary schools in W. Fairfax county can only start as early as 7th grade!

A few students either take Algebra in 6th grade online or travel to MS for first period algebra and then go back to ES for the rest of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesnt make sense to me. The 6th graders are already taking math 7 content so I just assumed the AAP kids would take math 8 in 7th grade if they didnt qualify for Algebra in 7th grade. I have a 6th grader in AAP so I need someone to clarify.

There are 3 main tracks in middle school in FCPS:
Math 7 (7th grade SOL)-> Math 8 (8th grade SOL)
Math 7 Honors (8th grade SOL) -> Algebra 1 Honors
Algebra I Honors -> Geometry Honors

I agree that calling it Math 7 honors is a bit confusing since they're teaching 8th grade math. They must have wanted to emphasize that the class is for 7th graders only.

Math 7 can go into Math 8 or regular Algebra. I know because my kid went from Math 7 to Algebra and the teacher thought he could handle Honors Algebra. We opted out of Honors for Algebra for the same reason we opted out of it for 7th grade math. We wanted him to continue to love math and build a solid foundation. He struggles with language arts, so he likes having one subject that is easy breasy for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a small percentage of TJ spplicants take Alg in 8th grade. Most take it in 7th or 6th. If in 7th, many will take summer Geometry do that they are taking Alg II in 8th.

There is no possible way to take Algebra in 6th grade!!! All the elementary schools in W. Fairfax county can only start as early as 7th grade!

Yes there is!!! You're wrong!!! Some schools have their top 5th graders join the 6th grade AAP class for math. Those kids take the IAAT and 7th grade SOL in 5th, and then most do Algebra in 6th. Very few schools advertise that this is happening, because they don't want to deal with pushy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesnt make sense to me. The 6th graders are already taking math 7 content so I just assumed the AAP kids would take math 8 in 7th grade if they didnt qualify for Algebra in 7th grade. I have a 6th grader in AAP so I need someone to clarify.

There are 3 main tracks in middle school in FCPS:
Math 7 (7th grade SOL)-> Math 8 (8th grade SOL)
Math 7 Honors (8th grade SOL) -> Algebra 1 Honors
Algebra I Honors -> Geometry Honors

I agree that calling it Math 7 honors is a bit confusing since they're teaching 8th grade math. They must have wanted to emphasize that the class is for 7th graders only.

Math 7 can go into Math 8 or regular Algebra. I know because my kid went from Math 7 to Algebra and the teacher thought he could handle Honors Algebra. We opted out of Honors for Algebra for the same reason we opted out of it for 7th grade math. We wanted him to continue to love math and build a solid foundation. He struggles with language arts, so he likes having one subject that is easy breasy for him.

Wait after Math 7 Honors what can kids take? What do most kids who are in AAP but who did not take Algebra in 7th take in 8th? Is there Algebra and Algebra Honors? I thought it was just Algebra

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wait after Math 7 Honors what can kids take? What do most kids who are in AAP but who did not take Algebra in 7th take in 8th? Is there Algebra and Algebra Honors? I thought it was just Algebra

They can take either Algebra I Honors or regular Algebra I. Regular Algebra seems to only be available to 8th graders. I'm not sure if kids in AAP are required to take Honors

[Anonymous]

Most AAP kids take either

7th grade: Math7 Honors or Algebra 1 H (which is usually all 7th grade students)
8th grade: Algebra 1 Honors or Geometry H

A few very talented/accelerated kids (a handful at each center--which is already only comprised of a handful of kids from each ES) take Algebra 1 H in 6th grade (and on very unusual occasion--like for a math prodigy-- in 5th grade)


A general college prep track might take Algebra 1 H or Algebra 1 in 8th or 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a small percentage of TJ spplicants take Alg in 8th grade. Most take it in 7th or 6th. If in 7th, many will take summer Geometry do that they are taking Alg II in 8th.

There is no possible way to take Algebra in 6th grade!!! All the elementary schools in W. Fairfax county can only start as early as 7th grade!

Yes there is!!! You're wrong!!! Some schools have their top 5th graders join the 6th grade AAP class for math. Those kids take the IAAT and 7th grade SOL in 5th, and then most do Algebra in 6th. Very few schools advertise that this is happening, because they don't want to deal with pushy parents.

This.