Math 7 Honors vs. Algebra

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would stick to Math 7 HN unless your child really loves math and performs well above grade level. Math 7 HN will give your student a good foundation for Algebra later on, and will help identify and fill-in any gaps in knowledge from Elementary school.

I think FCPS is pushing kids to advance in math when they aren’t necessarily ready.

Lately, on these boards, it seems that FCPS is doing the opposite, recommending that nearly all kids not take Algebra in 7th. FWIW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would stick to Math 7 HN unless your child really loves math and performs well above grade level. Math 7 HN will give your student a good foundation for Algebra later on, and will help identify and fill-in any gaps in knowledge from Elementary school.

I think FCPS is pushing kids to advance in math when they aren’t necessarily ready.

Lately, on these boards, it seems that FCPS is doing the opposite, recommending that nearly all kids not take Algebra in 7th. FWIW

It's not FCPS pushing advanced math - its the parents.

[Anonymous]

MY AAP child with ADHD qualified for Algebra in 7th but we opted for Math 7 Honors due to his ADHD and so far we think we made the right choice. He continues to love math and it's his easiest subject this year as a result of not forging ahead.

[Anonymous]

I would say Algebra is a lot of work, and the transition to middle school has been a shock to the system on it's own. But the Algebra teacher is truly exceptional-- he really cares and pushes the students to understand the materials. I believe the extra effort has been very worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's not forget, Algebra honors in 8th grade IS one of the advanced tracks. Algebra is not normally taken until 9th grade. If that is not the case for FFX county somebody correct me.

In FCPS, at least half of the kids are taking Algebra by 8th grade. FCPS has a goal of increasing the number of kids taking Algebra by 8th, so 9th grade Algebra will effectively be the remedial track in a few years.

I believe it is something like 71% of white kids and 80% of asian kids take Algebra by 8th grade (or before). For black and hispanic kids, it is much less -- 44% and 32% respectively. (See School Board Goal 1, Student Success).

So, 9th grade algebra is considered "on grade level" only in the sense that it makes kids who are behind the mean feel better about not being called "behind."

That said, my "good at math" (i.e. won the top Math Olympiad award one year, and generally breezes through it, including passing IAAT without any studying outside of 6th grade AAP math class), chose not to take Alg. Hons in 7th grade. Breezed through that. But, it finding Alg I Hons to be more challenging (in the details) than he has previously experienced. He's still doing well, but he has to up his game and stay on top of it.

[Anonymous]

My DS qualified for Algebra I honors and though I strongly encouraged him not to do it (no love for math, bit immature), he did it anyway. We let him choose 100%. So, during first semester, it was his only B and he was pretty disappointed but he has worked hard and gotten it up to an A. He still does not love math, but I think he likes the challenge and he's very proud of himself for taking on a tough class. So, all in all, I think he made the right choice. The self-confidence he has gained from the experience has been really valuable. Frost Middle School.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS qualified for Algebra I honors and though I strongly encouraged him not to do it (no love for math, bit immature), he did it anyway. We let him choose 100%. So, during first semester, it was his only B and he was pretty disappointed but he has worked hard and gotten it up to an A. He still does not love math, but I think he likes the challenge and he's very proud of himself for taking on a tough class. So, all in all, I think he made the right choice. The self-confidence he has gained from the experience has been really valuable. Frost Middle School.

The key to this was that it was HIS CHOICE! That's what so many in DCUMland are skipping over. If the kid chooses and it works out -- great. If the kid chooses and it doesn't work out --- great! They learn how to adjust or make a different decision or gain insight for future decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think FCPS is pushing kids to advance in math when they aren’t necessarily ready.

Lately, on these boards, it seems that FCPS is doing the opposite, recommending that nearly all kids not take Algebra in 7th. FWIW

They're doing both. Kids who are very advanced are encouraged to take M7H rather than Algebra. Kids who are fairly average in math are also encouraged to take M7H. FCPS is trying to close the achievement gap by having fewer white and Asian kids take 7th grade Algebra, but more black and hispanic kids taking 8th grade Algebra. If almost everyone takes Algebra in 8th, the achievement gap disappears.

I think the push for more kids in Algebra by 8th is misguided, but it makes the school district look better on paper to have a higher percentage of kids in Algebra by 8th.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid in AAP and my spouse is a middle school math teacher in FCPS.
My spouse thinks our kid should likely take Algebra in 7th, because otherwise it will be repetitive.

I don’t really care either way. Whatever happens it will be fine, I think. Just sharing what the math teacher parent said about our own kid. And math is a strength for our kid.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all posters. Am not OP, but great to hear many opinions on middle school math tracks.

With much longer view - don't most selective colleges require math/physics/cs/ee majors to start over again from scratch in full-rigor proof-focused calculus?
They did at my undergrad even for those that had done DiffEq in high school. Remember same undergrad policy at grad school institution. Has this changed?
Why the rush to have high school kids speed through advanced mathematics they likely don't understand at a deep level?

[Anonymous]

^ The same selective colleges want to see the most rigorous math courseload possible, even if they make you retake classes. Calc sequence will be easier if you've already been exposed. If you're getting dual enrollment credit from GMU, colleges are likely to accept the transfer credits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all posters. Am not OP, but great to hear many opinions on middle school math tracks.

With much longer view - don't most selective colleges require math/physics/cs/ee majors to start over again from scratch in full-rigor proof-focused calculus?
They did at my undergrad even for those that had done DiffEq in high school. Remember same undergrad policy at grad school institution. Has this changed?
Why the rush to have high school kids speed through advanced mathematics they likely don't understand at a deep level?

When I went to school, if you had a 5 of the BC Calc test, then you didn't have to start over again from scratch. YMMV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all posters. Am not OP, but great to hear many opinions on middle school math tracks.

With much longer view - don't most selective colleges require math/physics/cs/ee majors to start over again from scratch in full-rigor proof-focused calculus?
They did at my undergrad even for those that had done DiffEq in high school. Remember same undergrad policy at grad school institution. Has this changed?
Why the rush to have high school kids speed through advanced mathematics they likely don't understand at a deep level?

I have two children currently in college.

Child A took Algebra Honors in 8th grade and took BC Calculus as a senior and scores a 4. He went to Purdue. They gave him two semesters of calculus for his AP score. He skipped one and retook the second semester. He said that it was really easy and there was noting that he missed. He is about to graduate in Computer Engineering and has a job waiting for him.

Child at took Algebra Honors in 7th grade, got a 5 on the BC Calculus test in 11th grade and took Matrix Algebra and Multivariable Calculus and we paid for the GMU credit. He got three credits of Calculus credited from RPI and started out with Differential equations freshman year. He is a junior with senior credits.

Both were extremely well prepared in math and science. Both get very good grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think FCPS is pushing kids to advance in math when they aren’t necessarily ready.

Lately, on these boards, it seems that FCPS is doing the opposite, recommending that nearly all kids not take Algebra in 7th. FWIW

They're doing both. Kids who are very advanced are encouraged to take M7H rather than Algebra. Kids who are fairly average in math are also encouraged to take M7H. FCPS is trying to close the achievement gap by having fewer white and Asian kids take 7th grade Algebra, but more black and hispanic kids taking 8th grade Algebra. If almost everyone takes Algebra in 8th, the achievement gap disappears.

I think the push for more kids in Algebra by 8th is misguided, but it makes the school district look better on paper to have a higher percentage of kids in Algebra by 8th.

I really hope this is conjecture. I'm so sick of this liberal BS from the states trying to "socially engineer" society. Hey FCPS school board, listen very closely - No matter what you do to manipulate the school system, Asians will always score higher. That's a fact not an opinion. If you dont like it tough. Signed, White Dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I really hope this is conjecture. I'm so sick of this liberal BS from the states trying to "socially engineer" society. Hey FCPS school board, listen very closely - No matter what you do to manipulate the school system, Asians will always score higher. That's a fact not an opinion. If you dont like it tough. Signed, White Dad.

FCPS flat out has a goal of eliminating racial and economic gaps in Algebra I participation by 8th grade. The goal isn't feasible without a lot of social engineering + watering down the Algebra content so the kids crammed into Algebra who aren't ready don't fail. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BHLM3U58FE4A/$file/Goal%201_StudentSuccessReport_F1.pdf pg 37-38

The part about discouraging Asian and white achievement is conjecture. If they can't close the achievement gap by bringing up the bottom, they can close it by bringing down the top.