If atheism is not a relgion, why they want to convert everyone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you get into a deep enough conversation with an atheist about religion, they're going to tell you there is no factual or scientific basis for the magical aspects of religion. Lots of what religions asks of us is a force for good and motivating and beneficial, but we can have ALL of that without the supernatural elements. Believers, who "just believe" by definition, get offended by this...and I get that...and probably feel that that's atheists trying to "convert them." I think that in this case the line between voicing a belief and shitting on a belief is blurry for the believer, because it feels really confrontational. That's just the way it is.

I think it's oversimplifying to say that people are simply "offended" because you don't agree with them, and that they "mistake" this for conversion.

OP isn't talking about the "deep conversations" that are the premise of your (otherwise thoughtful) post. She's talking about the atheists who grab you by the collar--metaphorically on this board, or in person like pp's *whole BIL--to bring up their atheism and then harass you like a dog with a bone (doing well with the mixed metaphors today!) until you walk away.

I can't imagine this is common.

As for being easily offended, have you met my fundamentalist cousins in Alabama? They literally stopped talking to me because I posted an article about the ties between overt nationalism and patriotism (from The Atlantic, I think, a long time ago) and somehow misconstrued that to mean that I hate God, America, the military, the bible, and them. I tried reasoning, but realized I just didn't want to. It happens.

It's very common, and it's actually very aggressive. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't help people of faith or atheists.

Nobody here is going to defend your Alabama fundie cousins (although it sounds like they're nuts across the board, not just on religion). But most of us people of faith can counter that with our own stories, like pp's jerk brother-in-law, or the other pp's conversation about living near her church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you get into a deep enough conversation with an atheist about religion, they're going to tell you there is no factual or scientific basis for the magical aspects of religion. Lots of what religions asks of us is a force for good and motivating and beneficial, but we can have ALL of that without the supernatural elements. Believers, who "just believe" by definition, get offended by this...and I get that...and probably feel that that's atheists trying to "convert them." I think that in this case the line between voicing a belief and shitting on a belief is blurry for the believer, because it feels really confrontational. That's just the way it is.

I think it's oversimplifying to say that people are simply "offended" because you don't agree with them, and that they "mistake" this for conversion.

OP isn't talking about the "deep conversations" that are the premise of your (otherwise thoughtful) post. She's talking about the atheists who grab you by the collar--metaphorically on this board, or in person like pp's *whole BIL--to bring up their atheism and then harass you like a dog with a bone (doing well with the mixed metaphors today!) until you walk away.

These are just as offensive as Christians who do the same sort of thing. It's not about religion or lack thereof. It's about offensive personalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don't want to convert you, they want you to accept the science.

This is so inane. Plenty of religious people accept science. Plenty of scientists are religious. Find a better argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can, listen to Christopher Hitchens. He has summarized clearly how religion does thwart thinking, has been harmful, can be harmful and used to oppress
I believe religion should not be above criticism, religious private schools are dogmatic

^ I loved the guy, but I think his crusade, if you will, to publicly denounce religion and write books about it, along with Dawkins and Sam Harris (who I also love) are the type of thing OP is talking about. If you don't believe that's one thing, but why go out of your way to make a whole career of telling others how deluded they are? This is why most people don't like atheists.

Something has to make up for all the publicly denouncement of non-believers and the public pushing of religion to the point of expecting people to believe they will burn in hell for eternity if they don't believe your non-scientifically-based stories about a supernatural world where a supreme leader lives. This leader loves you, but will send you to hell for eternity if you don't believe in him. This is pretty hard to swallow for some people.

If you don't believe it's true, why is it hard to swallow?

Also, you've been told time and again, right here on DCUM, that most religious people don't actually believe that atheists are condemned to hell. How many times do we have to repeat that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

DP. This makes me wonder, too. Just mention religion to some (not all!) atheists, and they go into either (1) victim mode or (2) attack mode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

I'm guessing that the "Derogatory" comment is not so derogatory -- just surprising to pp that someone is not impressed by their mention of church. But we'll never know, really -- it's just message board talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

You're in complete denial. There are plenty of atheists like the dick brother-in-law above, who shove their atheism in peoples' faces and bring up religion with the express purpose of trying to show it's ridiculous.

If you're thoughtful about all this, and you may be, it would be more helpful for you to acknowledge and call out the jerks in your own tribe. Pretending they don't exist just makes people suspicious of even the "moderate" atheists.

Maybe so, but I've never met them - and have met a lot of Christians who feel they are doing me a favor by trying to bring me back into the fold. There are dicks everywhere, irrespective of religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

I'm guessing that the "Derogatory" comment is not so derogatory -- just surprising to pp that someone is not impressed by their mention of church. But we'll never know, really -- it's just message board talk.

DP. It's hilarious that you keep re-interpreting everybody's posts as either "didn't happen" or "you overreacted/misunderstood." You're in complete denial.

Sure, there are dick Christians, Jews and Muslims, and I've met some in each faith. I've even met a dick Buddhist, unbelievably, but he was a real piece of work.

You need to get your head around the idea that there are plenty of dick atheists, too. Sadly, your bizarre rewriting/reinterpreting of everybody here's experiences is starting to suggest it's own kind of dick behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

You're in complete denial. There are plenty of atheists like the dick brother-in-law above, who shove their atheism in peoples' faces and bring up religion with the express purpose of trying to show it's ridiculous.

If you're thoughtful about all this, and you may be, it would be more helpful for you to acknowledge and call out the jerks in your own tribe. Pretending they don't exist just makes people suspicious of even the "moderate" atheists.

Maybe so, but I've never met them - and have met a lot of Christians who feel they are doing me a favor by trying to bring me back into the fold. There are dicks everywhere, irrespective of religious beliefs.

As you're an atheist yourself, it makes sense that you've never been on the receiving end of aggressive atheists attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

I'm guessing that the "Derogatory" comment is not so derogatory -- just surprising to pp that someone is not impressed by their mention of church. But we'll never know, really -- it's just message board talk.

DP. It's hilarious that you keep re-interpreting everybody's posts as either "didn't happen" or "you overreacted/misunderstood." You're in complete denial.

Sure, there are dick Christians, Jews and Muslims, and I've met some in each faith. I've even met a dick Buddhist, unbelievably, but he was a real piece of work.

You need to get your head around the idea that there are plenty of dick atheists, too. Sadly, your bizarre rewriting/reinterpreting of everybody here's experiences is starting to suggest it's own kind of dick behavior.

*its (thanks spellcheck) before I get spelling policed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

I'm guessing that the "Derogatory" comment is not so derogatory -- just surprising to pp that someone is not impressed by their mention of church. But we'll never know, really -- it's just message board talk.

DP. It's hilarious that you keep re-interpreting everybody's posts as either "didn't happen" or "you overreacted/misunderstood." You're in complete denial.

Sure, there are dick Christians, Jews and Muslims, and I've met some in each faith. I've even met a dick Buddhist, unbelievably, but he was a real piece of work.

You need to get your head around the idea that there are plenty of dick atheists, too. Sadly, your bizarre rewriting/reinterpreting of everybody here's experiences is starting to suggest it's own kind of dick behavior.

FYI: I don't "keep" doing anything: You are responding to more than one person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t think this is true. Suspect you are the one coming at people with religious expectations, and they reply to your trying to push your beliefs onto others. You then claim they are trying to convert you....no, they are explaining why they do not share your beliefs. I can’t think of any situations where my religious belief (or lack thereof) comes up in my conversations with others in general.

Here is a sample conversation I have had many times with atheists:

Atheist: Where do you live?
Me: In X, right near Y and Z.
Atheist: Really? Do you like it?
Me: Yeah, I can walk to the grocery store, the movies, my church, even my job...”
Atheist: Church? Inserts derogatory, stereotypical comment about Christianity.
Me: That’s uncalled for.
Atheist: You’re the one who brought up religion.

Filed under: never happened.

Hardline Christians seek out offense everywhere, and when they can’t find it, they resort to Persecuted for Mah Faith fan fiction.

It has happened four different times. The wording is not exact each time, but the pattern is. The offensive comments are usually supposed to be humorous, I guess, but there’s nothing funny about pedophile priests or pastors with private jets.

I don’t feel persecuted, but it does make me wonder why any mention of religion is offensive to some atheist. If I’m just mentioned that I live near my church, how have I harmed you?

I'm guessing that the "Derogatory" comment is not so derogatory -- just surprising to pp that someone is not impressed by their mention of church. But we'll never know, really -- it's just message board talk.

DP. It's hilarious that you keep re-interpreting everybody's posts as either "didn't happen" or "you overreacted/misunderstood." You're in complete denial.

Sure, there are dick Christians, Jews and Muslims, and I've met some in each faith. I've even met a dick Buddhist, unbelievably, but he was a real piece of work.

You need to get your head around the idea that there are plenty of dick atheists, too. Sadly, your bizarre rewriting/reinterpreting of everybody here's experiences is starting to suggest it's own kind of dick behavior.

FYI: I don't "keep" doing anything: You are responding to more than one person.

I guess we were all hoping it wasn't true, that multiple atheists are actually denying other posters' experiences in order to pretend, hypocritically, that aggressive atheist jerks don't exist.

This isn't a good look for any of you.

It also makes your own brand of atheism look hypocritical and not particularly worthy of respect. We all know some atheists are aggressive jerks, just as jerks exist in all religions. You guys need to own your own jerks (just like many of us try to police the jerks in our religions, the fundies of all religious stripes, the Israeli settlement movement, etc....)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't want to convert you, they want you to accept the science.

This is so inane. Plenty of religious people accept science. Plenty of scientists are religious. Find a better argument.

What you say is true. That's because they can compartmentalize, i.e., hold two completely different viewpoints in their head at the same time for reasons of their own. Do not pretend the two are actually compatible though, they're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I think--oh! there's the doorbell again! Oh! It's those goldarn atheists going door to door with their pamphlets again!

Nope, never happens. And when I have gone to their services I have not been squeezed into a corner to hear someone tell me that it's ok I was raised Lutheran, I can still get saved from my ignorance. Wait, they don't HAVE services (well, there are Unitarians who may be atheists, and there are some secular humanism organizations that have a weekly fellowship, but the worst I've ever dealt with at my own Unitarian church is the goofy lady in her 70's who believes in crop circles, I don't even bother to steer her right).

Now, if you mean the people who post on comment forums and whatever sneering about the magic old man in the sky, I find them annoying as well.

No, they just proselytize in dorm rooms, at cocktail parties, in classrooms, at family events, and of course, on the Internet.

where "proselytixe" means acknowledging their lack of belief. THis is certainly not unlike people talking about whatever religion they are.

We can benefit from more of this. People should not hesitate to express their beliefs just because they fall outside the norm.

And the norm is changing -- there are fewer and fewer religions people everytime a survey on the subject is done.

My guess is that you have never been in the presence of someone who feels that religious people are all deluded and he is obligated to “save” them by tearing down their beliefs through mockery and a review of every single bad thing that famous religious person ever did.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been an atheist, now looking back, since I was a kindergartner in catholic school. I do not remember ever mentioning I’m an atheist to anyone that I’ve met in my life without the subject of religion being brought up first by the other person.
However, many people I’ve said it to, again after they brought up religion first, would act like I was violating their personal space as soon as I started saying what I do not believe in. If my lack of religion makes you feel uncomfortable, then why do I have to put up with you bringing up what you believe in? Seems like a huge double standard.