Discussion: What actually matters to you about your club and coaches?

[Anonymous]

I have a U12 DD. It seems like most people posting are talking about their boys. Does this apply to girls too? We have a bunch of tiny girls who are great now. You look at the sideline and see the mom who is 4'11" tall and dad who is 5'6". Their DD is probably going to be 5 feet tall. How is that going to turn out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just for reference. I’m a local coach. I make no money from coaching. The majority of our players are undersized, technical kids. Most of them minorities, a lot from low-income families. We help them with rides, try and figure out ways for them to pay or get assistance. Everybody gets to play, because they bust their butts at practice and deserve to. They’ve earned this opportunity, no one’s given the anything.

I’m sorry if you’re having issues with your own situation or your kid is being unfairly benched/blackballed, but like I said you need to take that up with the coach, club leadership, find a new team or simply drop to rec if you want guaranteed playing time. Just because I’m playing devil’s advocate and not blindly taking up your position, does not mean that I play politics with youth players. Best of luck and hope you and your player can figure this out.

Coach, thank you for your clarification. My level of disgust with club philosophies is not specific to my own player. If you coach a team of minority and often low income families,you will understand why, regardless of my own kid's playing time, I don't want to be part of a club with coaches who roster kids for out of town tournaments, some of them who are from low income families, and then refuse to give those kids any playing time at all in a weekend long tournament. These families make sacrifices to travel and get hotel rooms and it is not right for them to play maybe 5 minutes of garbage time at most in a weekend long tournament. That's my opinion, even if you think it is "soft."

The other thing that happens commonly (it has happened to us at two clubs) is that side arrangements and politics often dictate playing time or team assignments, rather than a player's commitment and work ethic. A club will bring over a group of players from another club, and suddenly they are playing over the old bench players, even though they seem to be on par with or below the level of the existing players. It happens all the time. It actually undermines a kids's motivation, because if he is working hard and has never been told anything negative by the coach, his logical conclusion is that he isn't good enough. Because, how did those kids who showed up for one practice earn the right to play over someone who has been at every practice working hard all season long?

Since 6th grade, our parenting philosophy has been to tell our son to speak directly to the coach about any issues.However, if year after year the answer is always "you are doing great. Keep up the good work" and playing time is still limited, we will ask questions directly.It is easy to say "find a new club" but you would be surprised how difficult it is to find the right club that balances competition with player development.

Also, who is "undersized" is relative, but the issue is often more one of late puberty than size. A 5 foot tall Hispanic kid whose father is 5'2 likely is developmentally further along than a 5 foot kid whose parents are 6 footers. Unfortunately, U13 and U14 is usually when coaches start significantly limiting playing time for the less developed kids, so by the time they are U15 or U16, when the top players would be expected to play the entire game, those kids are at a disadvantage even if they are growing. And trust me, it isn't sour grapes based on my own kids' situation. He ha been hanging in with the big guys for years and I can see him getting "better" as in stronger and more physical, as he approaches puberty. But he is still up against players who reached puberty years ago. The sad thing is that most of the kids we have known in our son's situation, those smaller, more technical players, have quit soccer entirely.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with the kids you coach Too bad there aren't more of you!

You made some sensible points, I was referring more to the Soccer culture in the US in general being soft, not you per se. Sorry if I didn’t express myself properly. As for playing against manchildren, I get it. 12 of our players are playing up 1 age group. 7 are playing up 2 age groups. It can be a struggle. Just keeps believing in them, things balance themselves out in the end.

So many play ups. Then why have age groups? This is only benefiting the play ups not the other players.

Because they’re good enough? Or should they just be in their own age group ruining everyone and going thru the motions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just for reference. I’m a local coach. I make no money from coaching. The majority of our players are undersized, technical kids. Most of them minorities, a lot from low-income families. We help them with rides, try and figure out ways for them to pay or get assistance. Everybody gets to play, because they bust their butts at practice and deserve to. They’ve earned this opportunity, no one’s given the anything.

I’m sorry if you’re having issues with your own situation or your kid is being unfairly benched/blackballed, but like I said you need to take that up with the coach, club leadership, find a new team or simply drop to rec if you want guaranteed playing time. Just because I’m playing devil’s advocate and not blindly taking up your position, does not mean that I play politics with youth players. Best of luck and hope you and your player can figure this out.

Coach, thank you for your clarification. My level of disgust with club philosophies is not specific to my own player. If you coach a team of minority and often low income families,you will understand why, regardless of my own kid's playing time, I don't want to be part of a club with coaches who roster kids for out of town tournaments, some of them who are from low income families, and then refuse to give those kids any playing time at all in a weekend long tournament. These families make sacrifices to travel and get hotel rooms and it is not right for them to play maybe 5 minutes of garbage time at most in a weekend long tournament. That's my opinion, even if you think it is "soft."

The other thing that happens commonly (it has happened to us at two clubs) is that side arrangements and politics often dictate playing time or team assignments, rather than a player's commitment and work ethic. A club will bring over a group of players from another club, and suddenly they are playing over the old bench players, even though they seem to be on par with or below the level of the existing players. It happens all the time. It actually undermines a kids's motivation, because if he is working hard and has never been told anything negative by the coach, his logical conclusion is that he isn't good enough. Because, how did those kids who showed up for one practice earn the right to play over someone who has been at every practice working hard all season long?

Since 6th grade, our parenting philosophy has been to tell our son to speak directly to the coach about any issues.However, if year after year the answer is always "you are doing great. Keep up the good work" and playing time is still limited, we will ask questions directly.It is easy to say "find a new club" but you would be surprised how difficult it is to find the right club that balances competition with player development.

Also, who is "undersized" is relative, but the issue is often more one of late puberty than size. A 5 foot tall Hispanic kid whose father is 5'2 likely is developmentally further along than a 5 foot kid whose parents are 6 footers. Unfortunately, U13 and U14 is usually when coaches start significantly limiting playing time for the less developed kids, so by the time they are U15 or U16, when the top players would be expected to play the entire game, those kids are at a disadvantage even if they are growing. And trust me, it isn't sour grapes based on my own kids' situation. He ha been hanging in with the big guys for years and I can see him getting "better" as in stronger and more physical, as he approaches puberty. But he is still up against players who reached puberty years ago. The sad thing is that most of the kids we have known in our son's situation, those smaller, more technical players, have quit soccer entirely.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with the kids you coach Too bad there aren't more of you!

You made some sensible points, I was referring more to the Soccer culture in the US in general being soft, not you per se. Sorry if I didn’t express myself properly. As for playing against manchildren, I get it. 12 of our players are playing up 1 age group. 7 are playing up 2 age groups. It can be a struggle. Just keeps believing in them, things balance themselves out in the end.

So many play ups. Then why have age groups? This is only benefiting the play ups not the other players.

Because they’re good enough? Or should they just be in their own age group ruining everyone and going thru the motions?

Playing kids 2 age groups up is insane. You would be taking a 5th grader and playing them with 7th and 8th graders. This is not about the player being good enough, this is irresponsible leadership.

[Anonymous]

It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

What the other poster was doing is calling out irresponsible parents and coaches. It is the coaches who are asinine to think any player wants players 2 years younger playing up with them. For the play ups, they do it to please their parents.

Only thing coming out of it, is bragging rights for parents and the coach is getting a h-job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just for reference. I’m a local coach. I make no money from coaching. The majority of our players are undersized, technical kids. Most of them minorities, a lot from low-income families. We help them with rides, try and figure out ways for them to pay or get assistance. Everybody gets to play, because they bust their butts at practice and deserve to. They’ve earned this opportunity, no one’s given the anything.

I’m sorry if you’re having issues with your own situation or your kid is being unfairly benched/blackballed, but like I said you need to take that up with the coach, club leadership, find a new team or simply drop to rec if you want guaranteed playing time. Just because I’m playing devil’s advocate and not blindly taking up your position, does not mean that I play politics with youth players. Best of luck and hope you and your player can figure this out.

Coach, thank you for your clarification. My level of disgust with club philosophies is not specific to my own player. If you coach a team of minority and often low income families,you will understand why, regardless of my own kid's playing time, I don't want to be part of a club with coaches who roster kids for out of town tournaments, some of them who are from low income families, and then refuse to give those kids any playing time at all in a weekend long tournament. These families make sacrifices to travel and get hotel rooms and it is not right for them to play maybe 5 minutes of garbage time at most in a weekend long tournament. That's my opinion, even if you think it is "soft."

The other thing that happens commonly (it has happened to us at two clubs) is that side arrangements and politics often dictate playing time or team assignments, rather than a player's commitment and work ethic. A club will bring over a group of players from another club, and suddenly they are playing over the old bench players, even though they seem to be on par with or below the level of the existing players. It happens all the time. It actually undermines a kids's motivation, because if he is working hard and has never been told anything negative by the coach, his logical conclusion is that he isn't good enough. Because, how did those kids who showed up for one practice earn the right to play over someone who has been at every practice working hard all season long?

Since 6th grade, our parenting philosophy has been to tell our son to speak directly to the coach about any issues.However, if year after year the answer is always "you are doing great. Keep up the good work" and playing time is still limited, we will ask questions directly.It is easy to say "find a new club" but you would be surprised how difficult it is to find the right club that balances competition with player development.

Also, who is "undersized" is relative, but the issue is often more one of late puberty than size. A 5 foot tall Hispanic kid whose father is 5'2 likely is developmentally further along than a 5 foot kid whose parents are 6 footers. Unfortunately, U13 and U14 is usually when coaches start significantly limiting playing time for the less developed kids, so by the time they are U15 or U16, when the top players would be expected to play the entire game, those kids are at a disadvantage even if they are growing. And trust me, it isn't sour grapes based on my own kids' situation. He ha been hanging in with the big guys for years and I can see him getting "better" as in stronger and more physical, as he approaches puberty. But he is still up against players who reached puberty years ago. The sad thing is that most of the kids we have known in our son's situation, those smaller, more technical players, have quit soccer entirely.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with the kids you coach Too bad there aren't more of you!

You made some sensible points, I was referring more to the Soccer culture in the US in general being soft, not you per se. Sorry if I didn’t express myself properly. As for playing against manchildren, I get it. 12 of our players are playing up 1 age group. 7 are playing up 2 age groups. It can be a struggle. Just keeps believing in them, things balance themselves out in the end.

So many play ups. Then why have age groups? This is only benefiting the play ups not the other players.

Because they’re good enough? Or should they just be in their own age group ruining everyone and going thru the motions?

Playing kids 2 age groups up is insane. You would be taking a 5th grader and playing them with 7th and 8th graders. This is not about the player being good enough, this is irresponsible leadership.

It's even worse when it's a middle schooler against high schoolers. Puberty and size becomes a factor, and it becomes either dangerous to the player or forces the other team to play down so as not to hurt the younger player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a U12 DD. It seems like most people posting are talking about their boys. Does this apply to girls too? We have a bunch of tiny girls who are great now. You look at the sideline and see the mom who is 4'11" tall and dad who is 5'6". Their DD is probably going to be 5 feet tall. How is that going to turn out?

It really depends on how far you want to go, and slightly on what position she wants to play (GK is out at the high levels if she's 5') A lot can be said for superior technical ability and soccer IQ. Additionally I've seen some very quick short players accomplish a lot - it's not all about top end speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

What the other poster was doing is calling out irresponsible parents and coaches. It is the coaches who are asinine to think any player wants players 2 years younger playing up with them. For the play ups, they do it to please their parents.

Only thing coming out of it, is bragging rights for parents and the coach is getting a h-job.

Our player who plays up 2 age groups is a starter, plays most of the game, and is constantly one of the best players on the field. You’re just soft.

[Anonymous]

Honestly if your son or daughter is good enough to play up two age groups in your league, chances are they need to find a better team in their own age group. Eventually this will matter more and more if they plan to play beyond into and beyond HS years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly if your son or daughter is good enough to play up two age groups in your league, chances are they need to find a better team in their own age group. Eventually this will matter more and more if they plan to play beyond into and beyond HS years.

I have never seen a player in Virginia good enough to play up two years. I saw one player up in NJ and she was very big and solid for her age. In fact, I didn't realize she was an underage player until it was pointed out to me. In Virginia, I have seen a few who are good enough to play up one, and some who play up who shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

What the other poster was doing is calling out irresponsible parents and coaches. It is the coaches who are asinine to think any player wants players 2 years younger playing up with them. For the play ups, they do it to please their parents.

Only thing coming out of it, is bragging rights for parents and the coach is getting a h-job.

Our player who plays up 2 age groups is a starter, plays most of the game, and is constantly one of the best players on the field. You’re just soft.

Starting and playing up is very political in many clubs, so that isn't proof of skill. I'm sure you as the parent say this player is one of the best. That's also not a proof of skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

What the other poster was doing is calling out irresponsible parents and coaches. It is the coaches who are asinine to think any player wants players 2 years younger playing up with them. For the play ups, they do it to please their parents.

Only thing coming out of it, is bragging rights for parents and the coach is getting a h-job.

Our player who plays up 2 age groups is a starter, plays most of the game, and is constantly one of the best players on the field. You’re just soft.

Apparently your coach isn’t. Is your hand tired yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not, and your example is a false equivalency. It’s more like a freshman playing with juniors. You’re just soft. If they’re good enough, they’re old enough.

Like another poster said, a December birthday at 13 is essentially playing up in his own age group.

We had a kid on my son’s 08 team that everyone was marveling that he was playing up as an 09 at U9. He had a January 4th bday. He was the same age basically as all of the Dec/Nov bdays.

Now if he were a Dec 09 playing up with the 08s that would have been different.

Seeing the difference at U15 boys with those that are turning 15 in Jan/Feb and those turning 14 this month and next is eye-opening. Kids vs men.

My younger son was always playing with his older brother and older brother’s friends so he was more challenged playing up initially—but physicality down the road makes it eventually better to be among age peers. It’s not static. We have a kid that really should drop back down on U12s roster because he is no longer keeping up.

This. Again, it’s dependent on the specific player. What the other post was doing calling it irresponsible is a huge generalization and it’s asinine, especially considering they know absolutely nothing about the particulars of the situation.

What the other poster was doing is calling out irresponsible parents and coaches. It is the coaches who are asinine to think any player wants players 2 years younger playing up with them. For the play ups, they do it to please their parents.

Only thing coming out of it, is bragging rights for parents and the coach is getting a h-job.

Our player who plays up 2 age groups is a starter, plays most of the game, and is constantly one of the best players on the field. You’re just soft.

Apparently your coach isn’t. Is your hand tired yet?

Hire this guy to write for Conan. This is first-rate.