What does "most rigorous" mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't speak for public. But our private school college counselor said that taking more than four or five APs has no incremental value.

Our program is obviously different than public and there is rigor in the standard and honors courses as well. But I can't believe that selective colleges -- and they are the ones who actually read the whole applications --are going to get stuck on the number of AP courses when you also have standardized test scores, teacher recs, and all the unique things that each applicant brings to the table.

Each school counselor submits a generic profile sheet with the application, as mentioned above. It lays out how many and what kind of classes available, including how many APs, Honors, etc. It also shows what the average SAT and ACT score is for the class your kids is in, and the average number of APs taken by students at that school and where your student's GPA falls (top 10%, top 25% etc).

They don't get stuck on the precise number, but if you are applying for a highly selective college, being above the average for APs, and in the top tier by GPA matters. And at big public high schools for better or worse, the students who have loaded up on AP classes and done well will have a higher GPA due to weighting than those who took fewer.

The combination of weighting and required reporting of general rank is what's fueling the drive for a half dozen or more AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means AP Physics C not 1 or 2
It means Calculus BC not AB
It means AP Chem and/or AP Bio not AP Psych or AP Environmental Science
It means both AP Lit and AP Language
It means AP Histories for 3+ years
It means AP Foreign Language
AP Stats is a nice add on but not in lieu of BC Calc

This is not true for my Tysons area FCPS, which offers 25+ different AP classes.
Our GC says students only need to take 7 (but must include at least 1 in each core subject) + 3 years of the same Foreign Language
Also that Honors didn't matter because that was a prereq for AP anyway.
My kid didn't want to take more than 3 AP classes per year, and the school only allows 1 in 10th grade; so this is what my kid took in addition to FL through Spanish 4.
10 - World Hist AP
11 - AP Chem, AP US Hist, AP Lang
12 - AP Calc AB, AP Computer Science, AP Gov
The box will be checked on my kid's transcript. That is how the colleges compare each student to his classmates... just that designation. So as far as colleges are concerned, my kid took a rigorous load; even though I personally know some of my kid's peers took 10-12 APs.. it's good to know that the GC is not encouraging it.

The HS counselor checking the "box" doesn't mean much. What matters is whether the admissions committees at colleges your DC applies to determine that after looking at your DC's transcript.

It does for FCPS and in-state public school admissions to UVA/WM/VT. The grades are recalculated according to college formulas, but the GC checking the box essentially gets the college admissions to check that box also.

[Anonymous]

It means top math track and reached AP level in core courses. Number of APs isn't the issue. No one can take all of them.

[Anonymous]

My TJ senior didn't take any AP classes until junior year (he did take the AP World History exam after his sophmore year, although the class is not offered at TJ). As a junior, he ended up with 4 AP classes (computer science, Spanish, Calc AB, and US History), and is taking 3 more this year (Calc. BC, AP Gov't, and AP English), plus 3 post-AP classes (he wanted to take AP Spanish Lit, but it wasn't offered this year). So to my mind he's taken a pretty rigorous course load, but didn't take any of AP Bio, Chem, or Physics. So I don't know how this would measure up for the kinds of schools he's interested in (top level LAC's). My younger is currently a sophmore at our base school. He took AP World History as a freshman, and is currently in AP Spanish, AP Gov't, and AP Psych. He'll likely end up doing the IB program starting next year, so he won't have any more AP's, but will have the full complement of IB courses. So will his course load be considered more rigorous than my TJ- attending son? Who knows, but I know they are both working hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My TJ senior didn't take any AP classes until junior year (he did take the AP World History exam after his sophmore year, although the class is not offered at TJ). As a junior, he ended up with 4 AP classes (computer science, Spanish, Calc AB, and US History), and is taking 3 more this year (Calc. BC, AP Gov't, and AP English), plus 3 post-AP classes (he wanted to take AP Spanish Lit, but it wasn't offered this year). So to my mind he's taken a pretty rigorous course load, but didn't take any of AP Bio, Chem, or Physics. So I don't know how this would measure up for the kinds of schools he's interested in (top level LAC's). My younger is currently a sophmore at our base school. He took AP World History as a freshman, and is currently in AP Spanish, AP Gov't, and AP Psych. He'll likely end up doing the IB program starting next year, so he won't have any more AP's, but will have the full complement of IB courses. So will his course load be considered more rigorous than my TJ- attending son? Who knows, but I know they are both working hard.

How is your son taking AP Spanish as a sophomore?

[Anonymous]

Not at all uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read that "most rigorous" thread and shake my head. I think it is too much pressure and stress for most normal kids. Are there some kids who can handle it and even thrive? Yes but I think they are statistically a small number. More common are kids who will try and fail to keep up and therefore feel bad about themselves and their abilities.

Is anyone planning to opt out of this madness? What do you think will happen as far as college admissions go?

Most "normal" kids aren't competing for the single digit admission rate colleges. Most colleges don't care whether a student took the most rigorous course load. A happy well-adjusted student with average grades in a standard curriculum will undoubtedly get into a wonderful college where he will meet great friends, learn a lot, and eventually start a career. It's just not going to be at one of the most competitive colleges. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the top 25% are considered losers because they can't get in to the top 10% and those in the top 10% get lapped by the top 1%. Works with incomes, wealth, and colleges.

I guess the issue on here is that many (most) of us attended top 25 colleges and now make 1% incomes. Good but not enough to just buy your way through the front door.

With average kids, we can’t get them into those same schools. So what are we supposed to do?

You look around and finally realize that lots of people who did not attend a top 25 colleges are also making 1% incomes. Then you back off.

[Anonymous]

^^very scientific.

[Anonymous]

FCPS family. Regular schedule is seven classes. Once PE requirement is over, is it common to turn that period into a study hall/free period considering DC will likely take 4 APs? Still considered "rigorous"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS family. Regular schedule is seven classes. Once PE requirement is over, is it common to turn that period into a study hall/free period considering DC will likely take 4 APs? Still considered "rigorous"?

Take a light course with no homework instead like band or chorus etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DD (in LCPS) was not allowed to take Aps freshman year and only one (AP World History) sophomore year. This is typical of LCPS. For her junior year, when she signed up for three APs (Calc AB, US History and Language/Comp.) along with DE Physics, her guidance counselor wanted to make sure she knew what she was getting into. She understood and, while it’s been a lot of work this year, she’s handling it well. Based on her counselor’s reaction, I think this kind of schedule was unusual.

However, I’ve heard of students (not in LCPS) finishing with 12-15 APs, and that’s not possible unless you start with one or two each during freshman/sophomore year. Some school districts encourage this because it makes them look good.

Our DD plans to take 4 or 5 APs senior year in subjects that interest her, but these will also be her only classes. Her senior year will look more like a college schedule, which was the plan.

Is she doing Early Release? Is that the general consensus at LCPS, that only taking 5 classes senior year is "most rigorous?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means AP Physics C not 1 or 2
It means Calculus BC not AB
It means AP Chem and/or AP Bio not AP Psych or AP Environmental Science
It means both AP Lit and AP Language
It means AP Histories for 3+ years
It means AP Foreign Language
AP Stats is a nice add on but not in lieu of BC Calc

This is not true for my Tysons area FCPS, which offers 25+ different AP classes.
Our GC says students only need to take 7 (but must include at least 1 in each core subject) + 3 years of the same Foreign Language
Also that Honors didn't matter because that was a prereq for AP anyway.
My kid didn't want to take more than 3 AP classes per year, and the school only allows 1 in 10th grade; so this is what my kid took in addition to FL through Spanish 4.
10 - World Hist AP
11 - AP Chem, AP US Hist, AP Lang
12 - AP Calc AB, AP Computer Science, AP Gov
The box will be checked on my kid's transcript. That is how the colleges compare each student to his classmates... just that designation. So as far as colleges are concerned, my kid took a rigorous load; even though I personally know some of my kid's peers took 10-12 APs.. it's good to know that the GC is not encouraging it.

The HS counselor checking the "box" doesn't mean much. What matters is whether the admissions committees at colleges your DC applies to determine that after looking at your DC's transcript.

It does for FCPS and in-state public school admissions to UVA/WM/VT. The grades are recalculated according to college formulas, but the GC checking the box essentially gets the college admissions to check that box also.

I think you need to call and ask because it’s clear from their talks that UVA and W&M have a different admissions review that what you are describing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD (in LCPS) was not allowed to take Aps freshman year and only one (AP World History) sophomore year. This is typical of LCPS. For her junior year, when she signed up for three APs (Calc AB, US History and Language/Comp.) along with DE Physics, her guidance counselor wanted to make sure she knew what she was getting into. She understood and, while it’s been a lot of work this year, she’s handling it well. Based on her counselor’s reaction, I think this kind of schedule was unusual.

However, I’ve heard of students (not in LCPS) finishing with 12-15 APs, and that’s not possible unless you start with one or two each during freshman/sophomore year. Some school districts encourage this because it makes them look good.

Our DD plans to take 4 or 5 APs senior year in subjects that interest her, but these will also be her only classes. Her senior year will look more like a college schedule, which was the plan.

Is she doing Early Release? Is that the general consensus at LCPS, that only taking 5 classes senior year is "most rigorous?"

I would think a heavy load of APs and Early Release for a purpose like a job or internship would be fine in the eyes of admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means AP Physics C not 1 or 2
It means Calculus BC not AB
It means AP Chem and/or AP Bio not AP Psych or AP Environmental Science
It means both AP Lit and AP Language
It means AP Histories for 3+ years
It means AP Foreign Language
AP Stats is a nice add on but not in lieu of BC Calc

The amount of pressure and stress a child would be under completing this kind of workload, at 14-17 years old, is horrible. I am disturbed that parents are allowing the colleges to demand this kind of load on someone who is not actually at the age of a college level class. We are not buying into this and if our DDs go to a lower ranked college because they only completed 5 APs and all honors, and 2 of those honors were AP Psych and AP Environmental Science, then so be it. They’ll still have a college degree and in most fields, thar’s what matters. We are not demanding more of them unless they ask for those other classes.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read that "most rigorous" thread and shake my head. I think it is too much pressure and stress for most normal kids. Are there some kids who can handle it and even thrive? Yes but I think they are statistically a small number. More common are kids who will try and fail to keep up and therefore feel bad about themselves and their abilities.

Is anyone planning to opt out of this madness? What do you think will happen as far as college admissions go?

Most "normal" kids aren't competing for the single digit admission rate colleges. Most colleges don't care whether a student took the most rigorous course load. A happy well-adjusted student with average grades in a standard curriculum will undoubtedly get into a wonderful college where he will meet great friends, learn a lot, and eventually start a career. It's just not going to be at one of the most competitive colleges. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the top 25% are considered losers because they can't get in to the top 10% and those in the top 10% get lapped by the top 1%. Works with incomes, wealth, and colleges.

+1. I am opting out. I have had it. Kid is in 9th grade and already struggling in math. I won't do this to her.