cutoff scores for Fairfax County GT centers for this year?

[Anonymous]

Whoops, PP here. I reversed two of her scores. It was 146 on quantitative (48 out of 4*) and 118 on nonverbal (42 out of 48)

[Anonymous]

I would be surprised because a 150 or 146 is significantly above the cutoff score. About 60-70% of the kids in the pool get in, so your chances are good just by being in the pool at all. Few kids will have a perfect score on anything. So your child is probably in the top 10% of the pool in terms of test scores, and again, 60-70% of the pool is getting in.

Also, I don't believe that lower scores in other subsections detract from the high scores. Keep in mind the purpose of the screening tests - to identify gifted children whose needs will not be met in the base school classroom. A child who scores a perfect score on the nonverbal or quantitative sections NEEDS to be in the Center - the base school does not meet that child's needs in that area, even if the child would be fine in the base school with regard to another area, such as verbal.

It's also important to remember that the scores are not weighted more heavily than anything else in the application process, so there are children with lower scores getting in if there is other evidence in the file that the child needs to be in the Center. Your child's somewhat lower scores on the other test or other subsections shouldn't be an obstacle, IMO, and even less so if there is other support in the file (i.e., the classroom teacher believes the child should be in the Center, etc.), which I assume there will be.

I'm basing this on my personal experience only. I have one child in the Center, one applying now, and I have talked to a lot of parents and several people in FCPS who are involved with the process. The bottom line is that I would be surprised if a child with a perfect score on one of the screening tests was found ineligible for placement in the Center.

[Anonymous]

15:50, thanks so much for that very detailed explanation. I appreciate it. This is all very new to me. My 2nd grader is my oldest. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Thanks from me, too (I'm the other PP with a child that had uneven scores). I'm hoping the Center could be better. For some reason, the teachers at DC's school treat DC like an idiot. DC is not challenged, yet only in the middle group for the classes. The scores somewhat vindicate what I've been trying to tell them.

We were on the fence about applying, but the more I hear, themore convinced I am that it could be a good move for DC (despite the downside of having to change schools).

[Anonymous]

I'm basing this on my personal experience only. I have one child in the Center, one applying now, and I have talked to a lot of parents and several people in FCPS who are involved with the process. The bottom line is that I would be surprised if a child with a perfect score on one of the screening tests was found ineligible for placement in the Center.

This has been my experience as well. I am the PP whose DD scored a 150 (all questions right) on NNAT last year, but whose CoGAT scores were low 120s. The GT coordinator said we were a shoe-in, but I was not convinced. I went to some effort, but not a ton, to put together a package for her. I think her package was strong. She is definitely in a better fit now than before. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Hi, it's 15:50 again.

I just wanted to add another thought to my earlier post about disparities in test scores. You have to bear in mind that the GT screening is not like a college or private school application process. They are not looking for the most well-rounded candidates, and they are not looking to fill a specific number of slots with the best kids they can find. They are looking for kids who display giftedness in any of a variety of ways (one of which is test scores). Every child is evaluated individually and if eligible, they can attend the Center. Another kid with better test scores is not bumping your kid out of the Center. The number of 3rd grade classes and class size is adjusted later after the acceptances come back; in our Center, sometimes there are three GT classes in a particular grade, and other years there are four. It depends on how many children are found eligible and choose to attend.

I think we tend to approach it from the perspective of "my child is competing with these other kids for a spot" (I sometimes fall into this mindset too because, really, this is how life works in general) but that is not how this screening process works. A child with a 150 on one section and 120s on the other sections is not "less eligible" for the Center than a child with a 150 and a bunch of 140s. The 150 indicates giftedness that warrants placement in the Center. That is why they use 2 different tests and will put a child in the pool if even one score on a subsection meets the cutoff. They are casting a wide net so they can evaluate every potentially-eligible child. If it were otherwise, they would be looking for composite or full-scale IQ scores instead of accepting subtest scores to pull kids into the pool.

If my child had a perfect score on any subtest, I would be pretty relaxed about the whole process. Yes, supplement the file, but don't make yourself crazy as if you were applying to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

My son has scored 123 in NNAT and 110 in COGAT. In submitting the referral, can we attach tuition center awards (KUMON)? Is this good? or will they take it in a negative way..as he needs tuitions to come up to this level?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Hi,

My son has scored 123 in NNAT and 110 in COGAT. In submitting the referral, can we attach tuition center awards (KUMON)? Is this good? or will they take it in a negative way..as he needs tuitions to come up to this level?

Thanks

Those scores are not great, so you're going to have to do some work to get a good application together. I'm not saying that to be mean, but I've been posting on this thread a lot and have done a lot of investigating into the whole screening process, and my sense is that one those scores alone, your child will not get in. My own child is only slightly higher than that on test scores and is not in the pool, and we are doing a referral. I also have a 4th-grader in the Center, but she was in the screening pool, and the process is a little different if your child is not in the pool.

In a case where the scores are not strong, it is crucial to have strong support from the school. I would make that my number one priority if I were you. If the scores are weak AND the classroom teacher does not advocate for the child to be in the Center, you don't have a very good chance.

Yes, parents can put in awards, recommendations, and student work samples, but those are not given as much weight as other elements of the file. With respect to work samples, one FCPS employee told me directly that they don't value them that much because they don't know if the child actually created them. (Things like photos of some amazing Lego creation could have been done with a lot of assistance from the parents, and even things in the child's handwriting may not be original work that the child did on his own.)

I don't know what the certificates from Kumon say specifically or how they were earned, but if they're the kind of thing that every kid gets as they work through the program, I don't think they are of much value. If your kid is in 2nd grade and is doing 6th grade math at Kumon, then maybe. But if it's standard tutoring, I don't know that I would include it. Also, the fact that they are "academic" is not necessarily a good thing. Gifted kids often display intense, sustained interest in a particular topic, so if your child were really into something, whatever it is, and you had something to submit that demonstrated his 'unusual for his age' ability to delve into this interest, that would be more useful that certificates from a tutoring service.

Again, the evaluations from FCPS staff carry a lot of weight, and I would consult with your child's teacher and/or the GT specialist to see if they are supportive of your child being in the Center. Ask them for an honest assessment of your child and whether you should do the referral. That's what I did.

I was disappointed with my child's scores; I don't think they fully reflect his ability. But we all think our kids are bright, don't we? So I called both the GT specialist and the classroom teacher and asked each of them to tell me, honestly, if they thought my child belonged in the Center. I told them I was not dead set on referring him and that I didn't want to do it if the Center was not what he needed. However, they both said they were surprised by his scores, and the GT specialist told me I should definitely refer him. The classroom teacher said he feels my son won't be challenged enough in the base school in 3rd grade and that he is one of the brightest students he's had. If they had said something different, I don't know that I would be referring him. There is nothing wrong with the base school. Getting into the GT Center is not a badge of honor or like getting into a really great college. It is a matter of putting your child in the environment that meets his/her academic needs.

[Anonymous]

My Child has 132 on Nonverbal in COGAT and 140 in NNAT test. My child was a GT student on first grade by local school GT committee. So I don’t my child has change to get in AAP center or not. Do we should ask the recommend letter from Kinder garden school and Art center? Because my child did not attend the K in FCPS and my child showed the GT at the K on private school.
Thanks,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Hi,

My son has scored 123 in NNAT and 110 in COGAT. In submitting the referral, can we attach tuition center awards (KUMON)? Is this good? or will they take it in a negative way..as he needs tuitions to come up to this level?

Thanks

Those scores are not great, so you're going to have to do some work to get a good application together. I'm not saying that to be mean, but I've been posting on this thread a lot and have done a lot of investigating into the whole screening process, and my sense is that one those scores alone, your child will not get in. My own child is only slightly higher than that on test scores and is not in the pool, and we are doing a referral. I also have a 4th-grader in the Center, but she was in the screening pool, and the process is a little different if your child is not in the pool.

In a case where the scores are not strong, it is crucial to have strong support from the school. I would make that my number one priority if I were you. If the scores are weak AND the classroom teacher does not advocate for the child to be in the Center, you don't have a very good chance.

Yes, parents can put in awards, recommendations, and student work samples, but those are not given as much weight as other elements of the file. With respect to work samples, one FCPS employee told me directly that they don't value them that much because they don't know if the child actually created them. (Things like photos of some amazing Lego creation could have been done with a lot of assistance from the parents, and even things in the child's handwriting may not be original work that the child did on his own.)

I don't know what the certificates from Kumon say specifically or how they were earned, but if they're the kind of thing that every kid gets as they work through the program, I don't think they are of much value. If your kid is in 2nd grade and is doing 6th grade math at Kumon, then maybe. But if it's standard tutoring, I don't know that I would include it. Also, the fact that they are "academic" is not necessarily a good thing. Gifted kids often display intense, sustained interest in a particular topic, so if your child were really into something, whatever it is, and you had something to submit that demonstrated his 'unusual for his age' ability to delve into this interest, that would be more useful that certificates from a tutoring service.

Again, the evaluations from FCPS staff carry a lot of weight, and I would consult with your child's teacher and/or the GT specialist to see if they are supportive of your child being in the Center. Ask them for an honest assessment of your child and whether you should do the referral. That's what I did.

I was disappointed with my child's scores; I don't think they fully reflect his ability. But we all think our kids are bright, don't we? So I called both the GT specialist and the classroom teacher and asked each of them to tell me, honestly, if they thought my child belonged in the Center. I told them I was not dead set on referring him and that I didn't want to do it if the Center was not what he needed. However, they both said they were surprised by his scores, and the GT specialist told me I should definitely refer him. The classroom teacher said he feels my son won't be challenged enough in the base school in 3rd grade and that he is one of the brightest students he's had. If they had said something different, I don't know that I would be referring him. There is nothing wrong with the base school. Getting into the GT Center is not a badge of honor or like getting into a really great college. It is a matter of putting your child in the environment that meets his/her academic needs.

Totally agree with this advice. You need to find out what the classroom teacher thinks. If your son's teacher isn't going to be submitting a strong recommendation for GT, your son doesn't stand much of a chance with those scores. Without strong advocacy from the teacher, or excellent scores on another test like the WISC, you don't have much evidence to suggest that your son needs to be in a GT center environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be surprised because a 150 or 146 is significantly above the cutoff score. About 60-70% of the kids in the pool get in, so your chances are good just by being in the pool at all. Few kids will have a perfect score on anything. So your child is probably in the top 10% of the pool in terms of test scores, and again, 60-70% of the pool is getting in.

Also, I don't believe that lower scores in other subsections detract from the high scores. Keep in mind the purpose of the screening tests - to identify gifted children whose needs will not be met in the base school classroom. A child who scores a perfect score on the nonverbal or quantitative sections NEEDS to be in the Center - the base school does not meet that child's needs in that area, even if the child would be fine in the base school with regard to another area, such as verbal.

It's also important to remember that the scores are not weighted more heavily than anything else in the application process, so there are children with lower scores getting in if there is other evidence in the file that the child needs to be in the Center. Your child's somewhat lower scores on the other test or other subsections shouldn't be an obstacle, IMO, and even less so if there is other support in the file (i.e., the classroom teacher believes the child should be in the Center, etc.), which I assume there will be.

I'm basing this on my personal experience only. I have one child in the Center, one applying now, and I have talked to a lot of parents and several people in FCPS who are involved with the process. The bottom line is that I would be surprised if a child with a perfect score on one of the screening tests was found ineligible for placement in the Center.

I'm not the PP, but I hope you're right. My child has a perfect NNAT and CogAT scores are in the 99th percentile. Nevertheless, I have heard from other parents of multiple instances where a child obtained a perfect score on either the NNAT or a CogAT subsection and still was denied entry to the GT center. The GBRS scores seem to carry a lot of weight. Also, some base school principals are reluctant to send their "best" students away to a GT center, so you may have to look out for that. The selection process is imperfect, of course.

[Anonymous]

12:16 here. I forgot to add that the argument AGAINST admitting a child with high scores in one subsection but mediocre scores in the other subsections to a GT center is that Level II and Level III programs in the child's base school are designed to accommodate those students who exhibit advanced ability in certain areas, but not all. The argument would be that such students don't need Level IV services in all areas of instruction. I don't necessarily agree with this argument, nor do I contend that the Level II or Level III programs actually operate like this in reality. I'm just pointing out a possible basis or excuse that can be used to reject students with high scores in one subsection but mediocre scores in the other subsections from admission to a GT center.

[Anonymous]

I'm not the PP, but I hope you're right. My child has a perfect NNAT and CogAT scores are in the 99th percentile. Nevertheless, I have heard from other parents of multiple instances where a child obtained a perfect score on either the NNAT or a CogAT subsection and still was denied entry to the GT center. The GBRS scores seem to carry a lot of weight. Also, some base school principals are reluctant to send their "best" students away to a GT center, so you may have to look out for that. The selection process is imperfect, of course.

I'm the PP you were responding to. I would add that I talked to my child's teacher about this the other day, and the teacher said that in cases with extremely high scores, the kids who don't get in despite their high scores are the ones who have "done nothing" - meaning they don't have any good work samples (the classroom teacher submits work samples in addition to what parents may submit) and hasn't done anything to impress the classroom teacher or other specialists in the school. So yes, the GBRS does carry a lot of weight and yes, it is possible for a child with super high scores to be turned down, but generally that would happen only if the teacher/school staff don't believe the child is qualified. If you have high scores and adequate support from the school, the chances of getting in are very, very good.

As far as principals not wanting to lose their best students, I can't speak to that as our neighborhood school is a GT Center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the PP, but I hope you're right. My child has a perfect NNAT and CogAT scores are in the 99th percentile. Nevertheless, I have heard from other parents of multiple instances where a child obtained a perfect score on either the NNAT or a CogAT subsection and still was denied entry to the GT center. The GBRS scores seem to carry a lot of weight. Also, some base school principals are reluctant to send their "best" students away to a GT center, so you may have to look out for that. The selection process is imperfect, of course.

I'm the PP you were responding to. I would add that I talked to my child's teacher about this the other day, and the teacher said that in cases with extremely high scores, the kids who don't get in despite their high scores are the ones who have "done nothing" - meaning they don't have any good work samples (the classroom teacher submits work samples in addition to what parents may submit) and hasn't done anything to impress the classroom teacher or other specialists in the school. So yes, the GBRS does carry a lot of weight and yes, it is possible for a child with super high scores to be turned down, but generally that would happen only if the teacher/school staff don't believe the child is qualified. If you have high scores and adequate support from the school, the chances of getting in are very, very good.

As far as principals not wanting to lose their best students, I can't speak to that as our neighborhood school is a GT Center.

I really fear this is my child. DC is new in FCPS and the teachers here have treated her like she's stupid. I'm going to submit some stuff from the last school, so hopefully that helps. She does well on all of her quizzes. Is that the sort of work the teachers submit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I really fear this is my child. DC is new in FCPS and the teachers here have treated her like she's stupid. I'm going to submit some stuff from the last school, so hopefully that helps. She does well on all of her quizzes. Is that the sort of work the teachers submit?

Ask the Advanced Academic Resource Teacher at your school to see the portfolio that was sent on to the screening committee. Then you will know what sort of things/student work to submit as supplemental information.