No financial aid for middle class at public college???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have freshman twins and did our first college tour. The twins are excited to go to school together at the same school, and are willing to go wherever we can afford. They are very bright with great grades at public high school so they can likely get in many schools but we are only letting them go to public colleges that we can afford.

Even at public colleges, tuition plus expenses (room/board) will be about $25k each year at the cheapest options and we are not considering schools more than $10k tuition/year due to our finances. How can DH and I afford the $50k/year for the twins? We won't qualify for help with FAFSA. We make $200k together and and all that money goes to the mortgage that won't be paid off for another 29 years (we couldn't afford a house until we paid off our college debts). We've been saving in our 529 but will only have about $50k total, after scraping by.

We would be willing to sell our house but we have a younger child who will only be in 6th grade when they start college so we need to stay here meanwhile. Then we will sell our house and rent a small apartment to pay these debts.

How have other families managed? Did you take loans against your house? Did you rent out rooms in house when they were at college? Did you have your kids sign up for ROTC/join army? Other ideas? Did you take jobs you hated for more money? We are worried and don't know how to tell our twins that they may need to work for many years before they can go to college.

You’re bringing home let’s say $9k per month. How much is your mortgage?!? You should be able to contribute $3k per month towards college.

You say that college is $50k per year for both kids

That’s $36k of your own money
$10k in loans
$4k your kids working over the summer

Not understanding why you can’t afford this?

Here’s what a budget should look like at your income level:

3k - mortgage
500 - transportation
500 - utilities
2k - living expenses
2k - savings
1k - other crap

You forgot health care! Duh. Let’s say that’s $1500 mo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - while you got some suggestions above about some schools that may provide financial assistance, I think you need to realize that MC and UMC parents for the most parent don't get a break anymore at most public or private institutions. We didn't. The FAFSA gave us the min. $5K loans, which we took but not one of my three kids received merit offers. Granted we took advantage of in-state schools (less merit aid) but even at the top Ivies they applied to, we were not offered any merit aid. It's pretty much dried up for people like us. The community college guaranteed admissions program is the best way to go. If your kids can to ROTC I know of a number of fine young men and women who succeeded brilliantly in those programs. Be upfront with your children about how much you can afford in after-tax dollars and don't tour any schools that you cannot afford. Also, BTW, we tried for all sorts of private scholarships (some requiring essays) but didn't snag even one.

Ivy League and similar schools do not give anyone merit aid. They give need-based aid, full stop. That's it.

If you want or need merit money, you need to look at second and third-tier schools and below.

[Anonymous]

A few private colleges are starting to expand their limits for financial aid in recognition of the fact that wages have been largely stagnant for the last two decades and they don’t want their student body to be comprised of mostly wealthy of kids whose parents make less than $65K per year.

Rice is most prestigious school doing this but some others are quietly doing it too. Whether this trend takes off or continues will probably depend on how the broader economy goes in the next few years.

Generally speaking someone in a similar boat to OP should 1) start aggressively saving and 2) look hard for colleges with large student to endowment ratios.

[Anonymous]

NP. I was under the impression that having twins attending college at the same time improves one's opportunities for aid. Is this not true anymore? HHI of 170K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I was under the impression that having twins attending college at the same time improves one's opportunities for aid. Is this not true anymore? HHI of 170K

It is true. But the expectation for savings is also a bit high. You will also likely get more of a break at a school that has more money to give, or where they want your kid for some specific reason — that 35 ACT score halos bring up their average or they need a tuba player for the marching band because 2 tuba players are graduating.

Consider colleges a notch or two down from your child’s perceived match level, such as a small LAC that has a 40-60% admit rate, gives merit aid and where your kid will be an academic standout. Or try a less selective state school (St Mary’s or Salisbury vs UMD-CP or CNU vs UVA.

Finally talk to your kids about your finances. You need your kid to be price sensitive and not fall in love with the idea or Duke or Williams which will not give them financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I was under the impression that having twins attending college at the same time improves one's opportunities for aid. Is this not true anymore? HHI of 170K

The FAFSA will generate an EFC (expected family contribution) based on your income and assets (and some other factors like your age and number of dependents and their ages). Having twins helps because the EFC remains the same no matter how many kids are in college. Essentially the formula is that you are expected to pay this much--if the costs are doubled because of twins you are still expected to just pay this much. The things that tweak this formula are 1) your child has an expected contribution from their own earnings and so twins will have both, 2) you are expected to have saved a certain amount per child based on your income. But it still most definitely helps on the FAFSA to have two in college at he same time.

HOWEVER, many institutions look at this, and the CSS profile and adjust their aid according to their own rules. They may be more inclined to adjust to the fact that a family with twins is not 1/2 as capable of paying for college as a family who has kids separated by 4 years. They may adjust your expected cash flow contributions by having two in college, but not your savings. They may adjust your capacity to borrow.

But overall it's better for financial aid to have twins than two kids that don't attend college at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I was under the impression that having twins attending college at the same time improves one's opportunities for aid. Is this not true anymore? HHI of 170K

The FAFSA will generate an EFC (expected family contribution) based on your income and assets (and some other factors like your age and number of dependents and their ages). Having twins helps because the EFC remains the same no matter how many kids are in college. Essentially the formula is that you are expected to pay this much--if the costs are doubled because of twins you are still expected to just pay this much. The things that tweak this formula are 1) your child has an expected contribution from their own earnings and so twins will have both, 2) you are expected to have saved a certain amount per child based on your income. But it still most definitely helps on the FAFSA to have two in college at he same time.

HOWEVER, many institutions look at this, and the CSS profile and adjust their aid according to their own rules. They may be more inclined to adjust to the fact that a family with twins is not 1/2 as capable of paying for college as a family who has kids separated by 4 years. They may adjust your expected cash flow contributions by having two in college, but not your savings. They may adjust your capacity to borrow.

But overall it's better for financial aid to have twins than two kids that don't attend college at the same time.

+1

Still no reason to have multiples.

[Anonymous]

Give them a choice: They can apply to colleges that are a level below what they could get into and get a free ride, or they can agree to take on debt in order to go a private college with good but not dazzling financial aid.

Oklahoma offered my kid a free ride plus a stipend, Emory offered a considerable scholarship, Columbia offered nothing.

Colleges are willing to buy friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they are really excellent students, there are public colleges and universities that will give them full tuition, and cover some of their room and board costs as well. Your kids are only freshmen so you have some time to do your research on this and figure out the requirements.

I’d like to know which colleges do this, i.e., FULL tuition. I know some that cover a large chunk for high stats kids, but the FULL tuition awards I’ve seen were for one or two highly competitive scholarships.

Mary Washington did; don’t know if the rules changed. Full tuition for good grades and tests scores. Not even astronomical test scores. It did not cover room and board. Still, made it completely doable for many.

Both of my kids got full tuition from Pitt. From MD.

+1. But from DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have freshman twins and did our first college tour. The twins are excited to go to school together at the same school, and are willing to go wherever we can afford. They are very bright with great grades at public high school so they can likely get in many schools but we are only letting them go to public colleges that we can afford.

Even at public colleges, tuition plus expenses (room/board) will be about $25k each year at the cheapest options and we are not considering schools more than $10k tuition/year due to our finances. How can DH and I afford the $50k/year for the twins? We won't qualify for help with FAFSA. We make $200k together and and all that money goes to the mortgage that won't be paid off for another 29 years (we couldn't afford a house until we paid off our college debts). We've been saving in our 529 but will only have about $50k total, after scraping by.

We would be willing to sell our house but we have a younger child who will only be in 6th grade when they start college so we need to stay here meanwhile. Then we will sell our house and rent a small apartment to pay these debts.

How have other families managed? Did you take loans against your house? Did you rent out rooms in house when they were at college? Did you have your kids sign up for ROTC/join army? Other ideas? Did you take jobs you hated for more money? We are worried and don't know how to tell our twins that they may need to work for many years before they can go to college.

I'm a bit out of the loop but is this typical? Freshmen do college tours these days?

[Anonymous]

Very few but every info session we went to had a couple 9th graders in attendance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have freshman twins and did our first college tour. The twins are excited to go to school together at the same school, and are willing to go wherever we can afford. They are very bright with great grades at public high school so they can likely get in many schools but we are only letting them go to public colleges that we can afford.

Even at public colleges, tuition plus expenses (room/board) will be about $25k each year at the cheapest options and we are not considering schools more than $10k tuition/year due to our finances. How can DH and I afford the $50k/year for the twins? We won't qualify for help with FAFSA. We make $200k together and and all that money goes to the mortgage that won't be paid off for another 29 years (we couldn't afford a house until we paid off our college debts). We've been saving in our 529 but will only have about $50k total, after scraping by.

We would be willing to sell our house but we have a younger child who will only be in 6th grade when they start college so we need to stay here meanwhile. Then we will sell our house and rent a small apartment to pay these debts.

How have other families managed? Did you take loans against your house? Did you rent out rooms in house when they were at college? Did you have your kids sign up for ROTC/join army? Other ideas? Did you take jobs you hated for more money? We are worried and don't know how to tell our twins that they may need to work for many years before they can go to college.

You’re bringing home let’s say $9k per month. How much is your mortgage?!? You should be able to contribute $3k per month towards college.

You say that college is $50k per year for both kids

That’s $36k of your own money
$10k in loans
$4k your kids working over the summer

Not understanding why you can’t afford this?

Here’s what a budget should look like at your income level:

3k - mortgage
500 - transportation
500 - utilities
2k - living expenses
2k - savings
1k - other crap

You forgot health care! Duh. Let’s say that’s $1500 mo.

I’m assuming OP has employer provided healthcare and the $9k takehome is after retirement, taxes and healthcare. Healthcare is pretax - duh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me see if I have this straight . . .

Last year, when you made $200,000, you had saved a total of $50,000 in 529 plans, and had just finished paying off your own education loans. At that time, you had twin 8th graders and a first grader. You also decided to buy a house at a price level that requires that "all that money [on a $200,000 salary] goes to the mortgage."

And you're asking how other families manage? They make different decisions, for a long time. But you decided to take on a long-term debt that chews up most of your income just 5 years before you have two (!!) kids going into college, without the savings required to pay for their schooling.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here, or why you are acting like this is unexpected.

But, all of the suggestions other have made are the right ones - CC, ROTC, substantial loans, schools with significant aid. Also, you need to stop taking your kids as freshman (!!) to look at schools, and tell them - now - what the situation is, and if they want to go someplace more expensive, they need to do the work to get the aid.

And don't leave your youngest out of the planning.

This. We are almost $500k HHI and still staying in our starter home so we can save heavily in two 529s for our two children. We did the math and we can’t save for retirement, 529s and pay for childcare AND a large mortgage at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Are your kids in private?

[Anonymous]

Lots can change between now and application time. Encourage their academic side and continue playing with net price calculators. What state are you in? State schools are usually the cheapest route, but the state schools have very little money to give. Be aware that tuition increases every. dang. year.