No financial aid for middle class at public college???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t middle class.

Two-years of CC and transfer to 4-year.

Many privates offer merit to bring cost down to that of in-state public.

You really should have been saving all along. Make your money work for you rather than try to play catch up.

DP. In this area with three kids, $200,000 is middle class.

That is not middle class and you choose to have 3 kids. You could have stopped at 1-2 kids if you could not afford to send three to college. Some of us think about those things when we plan our families. We live comfortably on less and heavily saved for college. But we live in a tiny crappy house to do that.

The post you're responding to is not OP. Living in a "tiny crappy house" doesn't sound like living comfortably, maybe you should have stopped at 1 kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t middle class.

Two-years of CC and transfer to 4-year.

Many privates offer merit to bring cost down to that of in-state public.

You really should have been saving all along. Make your money work for you rather than try to play catch up.

DP. In this area with three kids, $200,000 is middle class.

That is not middle class and you choose to have 3 kids. You could have stopped at 1-2 kids if you could not afford to send three to college. Some of us think about those things when we plan our families. We live comfortably on less and heavily saved for college. But we live in a tiny crappy house to do that.

The post you're responding to is not OP. Living in a "tiny crappy house" doesn't sound like living comfortably, maybe you should have stopped at 1 kid.

We did stop and have a huge college savings and spend a fortune on activities as ours is our priority. That poster is not middle class at $200K income and 3 kids. They are selfish if they cannot afford college and living above their means. They should downsize their house and lifestyle to pay vs. expect others to pay for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Community College does not offer the same quality of education as a well respected 4 year institution. If your goal is just to get a degree that is fine, but don’t kid yourself that a student is learning critical thinking or leadership skills. Both my MIL and aunt teach at different community colleges and it is a very different student body. Community College fills an extreme important niche, but don’t kid yourself on the quality of education.

A lot of 1st year and 2nd year classes at Ivies, UVA, CMU, etc... are NOT taught by professors. Those classes are taught by TAs. Furthermore, a lot of 1st and 2nd year classes at those universities have at least 100 students per class. Some even have like 200+ students. Quite frankly, those classes do not need to be taught by professors. 1st & 2nd classes are not that difficult to begin with.

At CC, classes are actually taught my professors and the class sizes are ten times smaller than at Universities.

yes, the student body at CC is very different than Universities and there are much more "less motivated" students at CC. If your kid is motivated and self-driven, he/she will be fine. The smart kids from CC will end up @UVA, VT, UMD, Ivies. CC is just a springboard to better things.

Not one of my DS's intro courses (engineering) at UVA was taught by a TA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Community College does not offer the same quality of education as a well respected 4 year institution. If your goal is just to get a degree that is fine, but don’t kid yourself that a student is learning critical thinking or leadership skills. Both my MIL and aunt teach at different community colleges and it is a very different student body. Community College fills an extreme important niche, but don’t kid yourself on the quality of education.

A lot of 1st year and 2nd year classes at Ivies, UVA, CMU, etc... are NOT taught by professors. Those classes are taught by TAs. Furthermore, a lot of 1st and 2nd year classes at those universities have at least 100 students per class. Some even have like 200+ students. Quite frankly, those classes do not need to be taught by professors. 1st & 2nd classes are not that difficult to begin with.

At CC, classes are actually taught my professors and the class sizes are ten times smaller than at Universities.

yes, the student body at CC is very different than Universities and there are much more "less motivated" students at CC. If your kid is motivated and self-driven, he/she will be fine. The smart kids from CC will end up @UVA, VT, UMD, Ivies. CC is just a springboard to better things.

Not one of my DS's intro courses (engineering) at UVA was taught by a TA

They had quite a few in sciences in particular when I was there.

[Anonymous]

OP needs to take this over to the relationship forum. She doesn't have a college financial aid issue, she had a DH issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not one of my DS's intro courses (engineering) at UVA was taught by a TA

two of my DS's intro courses, in CS, at UVA, are taught by TAs. Wishful thinking if you don't think it happens: https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/faculty-composition/#secComposition


You May End Up Getting Taught by a Grad Assistant

University of Virginia - Main Campus has 740 instructional graduate assistants that teach or provide teaching-related duties. These responsibilities could range from entirely teaching lower-level courses themselves, to assisting professors by developing teaching materials, preparing or giving exams and grading student work. We suggest you ask the college to what extent graduate assistants are relied on for instruction, so you know what you are paying for.

Additionally, the school has 780 non-instructional graduate assistants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First year classes at Harvard and MIT are taught by faculty members.

Be careful what you wish for. My daughter is a 2nd year professor at one of the Ivies and she doesn't care about teaching first year classes. She spends all of her times doing research and teaching first year classes is, in her words, a distraction. All of her colleagues think the same way.

You can't provide a quality education if you think teaching first year classes is a distraction.

Harvard specifically has freshman seminars taught by faculty. All freshman are encouraged to take one a semester. MIT has older and more established faculty teach. The younger faculty are often not as strong pedagogically.

The point is, people shouldn't spread rumors about elite schools.

[Anonymous]

"First year classes at Harvard and MIT are taught by faculty members.


Be careful what you wish for. My daughter is a 2nd year professor at one of the Ivies and she doesn't care about teaching first year classes. She spends all of her times doing research and teaching first year classes is, in her words, a distraction. All of her colleagues think the same way.

You can't provide a quality education if you think teaching first year classes is a distraction.


Harvard specifically has freshman seminars taught by faculty. All freshman are encouraged to take one a semester. MIT has older and more established faculty teach. The younger faculty are often not as strong pedagogically.

The point is, people shouldn't spread rumors about elite schools."

There seems to be spreading of rumors on both sides. This is DCUM after all.

One faculty taught seminar per semester would seem to support the idea that 3 or 4 classes per semester at Harvard are taught be TAs.

I don't think that TAs teach that much at Harvard but I do think Ivies and MIT and similar schools do use TAs for teaching more than many would admit.

But we also have to slice and dice what that means. Often in huge classes there are "teaching" faculty who don't have research. Is that better or worse? Teaching faculty are chosen for their teaching ability.

But huge is almost never ideal for the student's point of view. Then "discussion or homework review" sections are taught by TAs. These TAs are often more approachable and can have more offices hours than a professor.

I think the trend toward online courses where students watch videos of lectures and take tests with randomly generated questions and a student's only in person contact is at a "help center" is more worrisome.

I don't know how often the online model occurs at top level schools. Does anyone know? Just like TA's, I doubt it is zero and maybe there are classes it works well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"First year classes at Harvard and MIT are taught by faculty members.


Be careful what you wish for. My daughter is a 2nd year professor at one of the Ivies and she doesn't care about teaching first year classes. She spends all of her times doing research and teaching first year classes is, in her words, a distraction. All of her colleagues think the same way.

You can't provide a quality education if you think teaching first year classes is a distraction.


Harvard specifically has freshman seminars taught by faculty. All freshman are encouraged to take one a semester. MIT has older and more established faculty teach. The younger faculty are often not as strong pedagogically.

The point is, people shouldn't spread rumors about elite schools."

There seems to be spreading of rumors on both sides. This is DCUM after all.

One faculty taught seminar per semester would seem to support the idea that 3 or 4 classes per semester at Harvard are taught be TAs.

I don't think that TAs teach that much at Harvard but I do think Ivies and MIT and similar schools do use TAs for teaching more than many would admit.

But we also have to slice and dice what that means. Often in huge classes there are "teaching" faculty who don't have research. Is that better or worse? Teaching faculty are chosen for their teaching ability.

But huge is almost never ideal for the student's point of view. Then "discussion or homework review" sections are taught by TAs. These TAs are often more approachable and can have more offices hours than a professor.

I think the trend toward online courses where students watch videos of lectures and take tests with randomly generated questions and a student's only in person contact is at a "help center" is more worrisome.

I don't know how often the online model occurs at top level schools. Does anyone know? Just like TA's, I doubt it is zero and maybe there are classes it works well.

Believe what you want. This knowledge only applies to a very small percentage of students whose parents will have the social and cultural capital to understand the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"First year classes at Harvard and MIT are taught by faculty members.


Be careful what you wish for. My daughter is a 2nd year professor at one of the Ivies and she doesn't care about teaching first year classes. She spends all of her times doing research and teaching first year classes is, in her words, a distraction. All of her colleagues think the same way.

You can't provide a quality education if you think teaching first year classes is a distraction.


Harvard specifically has freshman seminars taught by faculty. All freshman are encouraged to take one a semester. MIT has older and more established faculty teach. The younger faculty are often not as strong pedagogically.

The point is, people shouldn't spread rumors about elite schools."

There seems to be spreading of rumors on both sides. This is DCUM after all.

One faculty taught seminar per semester would seem to support the idea that 3 or 4 classes per semester at Harvard are taught be TAs.

I don't think that TAs teach that much at Harvard but I do think Ivies and MIT and similar schools do use TAs for teaching more than many would admit.

But we also have to slice and dice what that means. Often in huge classes there are "teaching" faculty who don't have research. Is that better or worse? Teaching faculty are chosen for their teaching ability.

But huge is almost never ideal for the student's point of view. Then "discussion or homework review" sections are taught by TAs. These TAs are often more approachable and can have more offices hours than a professor.

I think the trend toward online courses where students watch videos of lectures and take tests with randomly generated questions and a student's only in person contact is at a "help center" is more worrisome.

I don't know how often the online model occurs at top level schools. Does anyone know? Just like TA's, I doubt it is zero and maybe there are classes it works well.

Believe what you want. This knowledge only applies to a very small percentage of students whose parents will have the social and cultural capital to understand the system.

People are paying more and more to universities where faculty are paid more and more to teach less and less.