Do prayers really work and if they do is it fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your premise is faulty because you express a fundamental misunderstanding (on the elementary school level) of God and prayer. But there are people who share your misunderstanding, so if that is who you want to discuss this with, carry on.

Thanks for explaining it for him so he can understand.

Oh, wait...

(the irony again, it burns)

Belief in religion is a personal discovery, journey, etc.

I don’t know why people here want religious people to explain everything to them.

Read the Bible. Read a good study Bible- or several. Come to your own conclusions before you try to debate theology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually do know exactly which verses are applicable here (namely Mark 10:17-31 and hello most of the Bible) but no, I haven’t been impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum about the Bible. It’s basically a bunch of ignoramuses pontificating on something they hardly know. Very few people seem to know anything about the Bible other than as you say, there are rules on what foods to eat (gasp! Rules about eating in a time where there were all kinds of diseases associated with unsanitary conditions!!) and some random “impossible” thing they saw on some atheist reddit post like there was a talking donkey, which wasn’t even the most interesting part of that story.

Is it really surprising that people point out the parts of the book they find objectionable, contradictory, offensive, or impossible?

The problem many people have is with biblical literalists. You'll see very little argument to people who view it as allegory written by men, even if they choose to make it an important part of their life.

If you accept the premise of a creator who is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., why would the “impossible” parts bother you at all? The entire premise is impossible without faith.

Secondly I have no problem discussing contradictions in the Bible, but when your knowledge and understanding are so superficial, you really don’t have anything of interest to say. Yes, guys, we know some innocent babies get cancer and that is super terrible, but it is really not a slam dunk as far as seeing religion as illegitimate. The fallout of free will and living in the natural world is suffering. The Bible is actually not about avoiding suffering or having the easiest life possible.

Don’t try to point out issues about something that you didn’t read all the way through without at least googling or investigating yourself. So basic!

Because literalists try to impose their will on the rest of us, through legal or societal means. You know this.

For the record I have had a great deal of biblical instruction. By "superficial" you mean "You don't compartmentalize the problem areas so that faith is easy, therefore I do not want to hear from you".

And if you think I "really don’t have anything of interest to say", well, then why did you respond?

We both know the answer to that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people here want religious people to explain everything to them.

Generally, when making assertions in a discussion, the person making the assertions is responsible for supporting them with data. You are under no obligation to do so, but choose not to at the cost of the weakness of your assertion.

Anonymous wrote:Read the Bible. Read a good study Bible- or several. Come to your own conclusions before you try to debate theology.

Been there, done that, as the saying goes. Have come to my own conclusions through exhaustive reading, research, and discussion, which continues here. Willing to change my mind when presented with sufficient evidence. Are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people here want religious people to explain everything to them.

Generally, when making assertions in a discussion, the person making the assertions is responsible for supporting them with data. You are under no obligation to do so, but choose not to at the cost of the weakness of your assertion.

Anonymous wrote:Read the Bible. Read a good study Bible- or several. Come to your own conclusions before you try to debate theology.

Been there, done that, as the saying goes. Have come to my own conclusions through exhaustive reading, research, and discussion, which continues here. Willing to change my mind when presented with sufficient evidence. Are you?

No. A stranger trolling an anonymous forum will never be important enough for anyone to base, decide, or change their opinion or belief in religion upon.

You aren’t anyone special except to maybe your mom.

You don’t have a degree in theology. You are just a troll who is very proud of their thoughts and opinions. Congrats.

Meanwhile:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people here want religious people to explain everything to them.

Generally, when making assertions in a discussion, the person making the assertions is responsible for supporting them with data. You are under no obligation to do so, but choose not to at the cost of the weakness of your assertion.

Anonymous wrote:Read the Bible. Read a good study Bible- or several. Come to your own conclusions before you try to debate theology.

Been there, done that, as the saying goes. Have come to my own conclusions through exhaustive reading, research, and discussion, which continues here. Willing to change my mind when presented with sufficient evidence. Are you?

No. A stranger trolling an anonymous forum will never be important enough for anyone to base, decide, or change their opinion or belief in religion upon.

You aren’t anyone special except to maybe your mom.

You don’t have a degree in theology. You are just a troll who is very proud of their thoughts and opinions. Congrats.

Meanwhile:

Who is being condescending and insulting now? lol... more irony, turned up to 11. You even went to "your mom".

And if you think "A stranger trolling an anonymous forum will never be important enough for anyone to base, decide, or change their opinion or belief in religion upon.", then neither will preaching, so why bother? I do not agree with that statement though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually do know exactly which verses are applicable here (namely Mark 10:17-31 and hello most of the Bible) but no, I haven’t been impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum about the Bible. It’s basically a bunch of ignoramuses pontificating on something they hardly know. Very few people seem to know anything about the Bible other than as you say, there are rules on what foods to eat (gasp! Rules about eating in a time where there were all kinds of diseases associated with unsanitary conditions!!) and some random “impossible” thing they saw on some atheist reddit post like there was a talking donkey, which wasn’t even the most interesting part of that story.

Is it really surprising that people point out the parts of the book they find objectionable, contradictory, offensive, or impossible?

The problem many people have is with biblical literalists. You'll see very little argument to people who view it as allegory written by men, even if they choose to make it an important part of their life.

If you accept the premise of a creator who is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., why would the “impossible” parts bother you at all? The entire premise is impossible without faith.

Secondly I have no problem discussing contradictions in the Bible, but when your knowledge and understanding are so superficial, you really don’t have anything of interest to say. Yes, guys, we know some innocent babies get cancer and that is super terrible, but it is really not a slam dunk as far as seeing religion as illegitimate. The fallout of free will and living in the natural world is suffering. The Bible is actually not about avoiding suffering or having the easiest life possible.

Don’t try to point out issues about something that you didn’t read all the way through without at least googling or investigating yourself. So basic!

Because literalists try to impose their will on the rest of us, through legal or societal means. You know this.

For the record I have had a great deal of biblical instruction. By "superficial" you mean "You don't compartmentalize the problem areas so that faith is easy, therefore I do not want to hear from you".

And if you think I "really don’t have anything of interest to say", well, then why did you respond?

We both know the answer to that one.

You are certainly launching into your own thing so good luck with that. I haven’t told you to have faith or “compartmentalize” so I’m not sure who or what you’re arguing about. This isn’t really about being literal with the text, but having a working understanding.

If you have knowledge, have a knowledgeable discussion about the text. If you don’t, don’t. I don’t see you showing off any deep thinking.

What do you think the Bible says about being rich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So let's discuss this one. If God is loving Father he should love all his creatures and children alike. No favs. Right? But if one prays for something, why should God fulfill that request? For one it is favoritism, for two it is not fair to others who did not ask... because God as a Good Father
should see the needs of his children and do his best to help them just as humans do right? A good father does not wait for a child to ask or pray but gives freely according to his abilities to help a child in need.

But! just but.. what if God does not really play favorites with humans and things happen at random? What if God wants to be just and does not help nobody over the next person? Then it would be fair and then the prayer for things and gains would have no basis. Then people would just have to be nice to God and God would not give nothing to no one. Would then people love God knowing that no matter how hard they would pray they would not get ahead of the next dude? That would be interesting to see.

Discuss

Yes, God loves all his creatures but not all creatures are his children. Until one accepts Jesus as the leader of their life — giving up control and confessing their immorality —-, there is no relationship with God. Until then, one is not a child of His. Those who decide to accept him as leader of their life (believers/children) have access to God through prayer. Those who have not accepted him do not have access to a relationship with him through prayer.

We live in a fallen world (since the fall of Adam and Eve) and as a result, bad things are going to happen while we’re here. Believers/children trust in God to help them through this difficult life until they reach eternity (his 2nd coming). There is no playing favorites. He wants everyone to come into a personal relationship with him. Love is not forced and many have rejected Him in favor of their own way. Believers/children can pray to Him but ultimately His will is going to prevail. We are to trust His will even if it doesn’t make sense to us on this side of Heaven. He sees the whole picture —- we do not and we are naive if we think we know more than the creator. As the great Billy Graham once said, “I’ve read the end of the Bible, it’s all going to turn out right.”

Bottom line, He loves each and every one of us and wants us to love Him back.

[Anonymous]

But but but.. if God has a plan and everything is predestined then asking for something is either part of the plan or works against he plan and changes have to be made. Because when one person asks for something and it is granted, it is most likely taken away from another person.

Example - exams, jobs, lottery..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But but but.. if God has a plan and everything is predestined then asking for something is either part of the plan or works against he plan and changes have to be made. Because when one person asks for something and it is granted, it is most likely taken away from another person.

Example - exams, jobs, lottery..

Wow genius you are the first one to ever think of that! I guess we can all stop talking about religion and go home!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually do know exactly which verses are applicable here (namely Mark 10:17-31 and hello most of the Bible) but no, I haven’t been impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum about the Bible. It’s basically a bunch of ignoramuses pontificating on something they hardly know. Very few people seem to know anything about the Bible other than as you say, there are rules on what foods to eat (gasp! Rules about eating in a time where there were all kinds of diseases associated with unsanitary conditions!!) and some random “impossible” thing they saw on some atheist reddit post like there was a talking donkey, which wasn’t even the most interesting part of that story.

Is it really surprising that people point out the parts of the book they find objectionable, contradictory, offensive, or impossible?

The problem many people have is with biblical literalists. You'll see very little argument to people who view it as allegory written by men, even if they choose to make it an important part of their life.

If you accept the premise of a creator who is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., why would the “impossible” parts bother you at all? The entire premise is impossible without faith.

Secondly I have no problem discussing contradictions in the Bible, but when your knowledge and understanding are so superficial, you really don’t have anything of interest to say. Yes, guys, we know some innocent babies get cancer and that is super terrible, but it is really not a slam dunk as far as seeing religion as illegitimate. The fallout of free will and living in the natural world is suffering. The Bible is actually not about avoiding suffering or having the easiest life possible.

Don’t try to point out issues about something that you didn’t read all the way through without at least googling or investigating yourself. So basic!

Because literalists try to impose their will on the rest of us, through legal or societal means. You know this.

For the record I have had a great deal of biblical instruction. By "superficial" you mean "You don't compartmentalize the problem areas so that faith is easy, therefore I do not want to hear from you".

And if you think I "really don’t have anything of interest to say", well, then why did you respond?

We both know the answer to that one.

You are certainly launching into your own thing so good luck with that. I haven’t told you to have faith or “compartmentalize” so I’m not sure who or what you’re arguing about. This isn’t really about being literal with the text, but having a working understanding.

If you have knowledge, have a knowledgeable discussion about the text. If you don’t, don’t. I don’t see you showing off any deep thinking.

What do you think the Bible says about being rich?

The first one that comes to mind is the quote about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe that is directly from Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But but but.. if God has a plan and everything is predestined then asking for something is either part of the plan or works against he plan and changes have to be made. Because when one person asks for something and it is granted, it is most likely taken away from another person.

Example - exams, jobs, lottery..

Wow genius you are the first one to ever think of that! I guess we can all stop talking about religion and go home!

I am not the PP, but if it is so frequently discussed, how is it rationalized?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people here want religious people to explain everything to them.

Generally, when making assertions in a discussion, the person making the assertions is responsible for supporting them with data. You are under no obligation to do so, but choose not to at the cost of the weakness of your assertion.

Anonymous wrote:Read the Bible. Read a good study Bible- or several. Come to your own conclusions before you try to debate theology.

Been there, done that, as the saying goes. Have come to my own conclusions through exhaustive reading, research, and discussion, which continues here. Willing to change my mind when presented with sufficient evidence. Are you?

No. A stranger trolling an anonymous forum will never be important enough for anyone to base, decide, or change their opinion or belief in religion upon.

You aren’t anyone special except to maybe your mom.

You don’t have a degree in theology. You are just a troll who is very proud of their thoughts and opinions. Congrats.



What if..


No. A stranger trolling an anonymous forum will never be important enough for anyone to base, decide, or change their opinion or belief in religion upon.

What if.. not a troll but someone looking for collective wisdom?

You aren’t anyone special except to maybe your mom.

What if.. more then that? What if in God's eyes everyone is exceptional. That is more then just mom.

You don’t have a degree in theology.

What if.. someone would know about theology more then the next Joe?

You are just a troll who is very proud of their thoughts and opinions. Congrats.

You are trying to roll the pave roller over someone's search for truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But but but.. if God has a plan and everything is predestined then asking for something is either part of the plan or works against he plan and changes have to be made. Because when one person asks for something and it is granted, it is most likely taken away from another person.

Example - exams, jobs, lottery..

Wow genius you are the first one to ever think of that! I guess we can all stop talking about religion and go home!

I am not the PP, but if it is so frequently discussed, how is it rationalized?

It doesn’t even make sense to be confused about this. If God is omniscient he knows the beginning and the end. He knows what you will ask and whether it will be granted before you asked it. The point is that YOU do t know the end and what will happen.

I can’t even with this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually do know exactly which verses are applicable here (namely Mark 10:17-31 and hello most of the Bible) but no, I haven’t been impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum about the Bible. It’s basically a bunch of ignoramuses pontificating on something they hardly know. Very few people seem to know anything about the Bible other than as you say, there are rules on what foods to eat (gasp! Rules about eating in a time where there were all kinds of diseases associated with unsanitary conditions!!) and some random “impossible” thing they saw on some atheist reddit post like there was a talking donkey, which wasn’t even the most interesting part of that story.

Is it really surprising that people point out the parts of the book they find objectionable, contradictory, offensive, or impossible?

The problem many people have is with biblical literalists. You'll see very little argument to people who view it as allegory written by men, even if they choose to make it an important part of their life.

If you accept the premise of a creator who is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., why would the “impossible” parts bother you at all? The entire premise is impossible without faith.

Secondly I have no problem discussing contradictions in the Bible, but when your knowledge and understanding are so superficial, you really don’t have anything of interest to say. Yes, guys, we know some innocent babies get cancer and that is super terrible, but it is really not a slam dunk as far as seeing religion as illegitimate. The fallout of free will and living in the natural world is suffering. The Bible is actually not about avoiding suffering or having the easiest life possible.

Don’t try to point out issues about something that you didn’t read all the way through without at least googling or investigating yourself. So basic!

Because literalists try to impose their will on the rest of us, through legal or societal means. You know this.

For the record I have had a great deal of biblical instruction. By "superficial" you mean "You don't compartmentalize the problem areas so that faith is easy, therefore I do not want to hear from you".

And if you think I "really don’t have anything of interest to say", well, then why did you respond?

We both know the answer to that one.

You are certainly launching into your own thing so good luck with that. I haven’t told you to have faith or “compartmentalize” so I’m not sure who or what you’re arguing about. This isn’t really about being literal with the text, but having a working understanding.

If you have knowledge, have a knowledgeable discussion about the text. If you don’t, don’t. I don’t see you showing off any deep thinking.

What do you think the Bible says about being rich?

The first one that comes to mind is the quote about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe that is directly from Jesus.

So you are so knowledgeable about the Bible you even know the top quote you are responding to!

Wow, color me impressed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But but but.. if God has a plan and everything is predestined then asking for something is either part of the plan or works against he plan and changes have to be made. Because when one person asks for something and it is granted, it is most likely taken away from another person.

Example - exams, jobs, lottery..

Wow genius you are the first one to ever think of that! I guess we can all stop talking about religion and go home!

I am not the PP, but if it is so frequently discussed, how is it rationalized?

This is kind of a trick to keep you in the loop. On one hand you need to be faithful and do as expected, but on the other hand everything is predestined so no matter what you do you end up in the same place. So in theory if you are good person or bad person it is predesigned, if you do god or do bad it is not going to change anything because whatever you are doing has been decided before you were born.

This is a seriously conflicted conundrum. On one hand you got a free will and can influence your destination, on the other
it has been all decided.

Think of Judas.. on one hand he had a choice.. but on the other hand he was always the took in God's hand he has been chosen to do what he did. So at the end this is quite confusing proposition. Free will or not free will?
What is it at the end? And if a person is chosen to do bad deeds for the sake of humanity's improvement then
is that person eternally damned or is the person rewarded. Judas ended up pretty badly here on Earth.