A thread of optimism: why do you think Trump will win in 2020?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My step-father was visiting this weekend. He's what I call a "weak" Trump supporter: voted for him because he was sick of the status quo, encouraged everyone to "give Trump a chance" after the Inaugeration, and generally is very uncomfortable when minority Americans talk about "justice."

Now? He's completely opposed to Trump. He finds him to be despicable, both in his personal conduct and lack of respect for the troops on this Memorial Day weekend. He's excited about Biden, but admits he will likely vote for anyone the Democrats nominate.

I'd say that's the general sentiment among much of the independent white Boomer electorate.

Maybe among the wealthy class, but certainly not among those still working hard and building their 401k...

This criticism is a total non-sequitur. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who tepidly supported Trump in 2016 are majorly turned off by him this time around. You haven't really provided any thoughtful nuance to the discussion and really just polluted this thread with a baseless claim ("They're all rich!")

Whatevs. Keep your head in the sand.

Yea, maybe there is "a lot" of those people. I am not sure that real actual polling data shows that. I was a tepid supporter of Trump in 2016, but my support for him has grown stronger in the past couple of year. I'm optimistic that there are more people like me who will help reelect Trump for a second term.

I hope you don't mind my asking this - but where are you originally from? And does you being from another country influence your support of Trump, do you think?

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

No, I don’t think PP should disclose to you where they’re from. You’ll be attacking that country, no doubt.

What a strange comment. First, the PP sounds mature and wise enough to decide whether to share or not. Second, nope, my intention is not to attack any country, but to better understand PP's context and point of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My step-father was visiting this weekend. He's what I call a "weak" Trump supporter: voted for him because he was sick of the status quo, encouraged everyone to "give Trump a chance" after the Inaugeration, and generally is very uncomfortable when minority Americans talk about "justice."

Now? He's completely opposed to Trump. He finds him to be despicable, both in his personal conduct and lack of respect for the troops on this Memorial Day weekend. He's excited about Biden, but admits he will likely vote for anyone the Democrats nominate.

I'd say that's the general sentiment among much of the independent white Boomer electorate.

Maybe among the wealthy class, but certainly not among those still working hard and building their 401k...

This criticism is a total non-sequitur. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who tepidly supported Trump in 2016 are majorly turned off by him this time around. You haven't really provided any thoughtful nuance to the discussion and really just polluted this thread with a baseless claim ("They're all rich!")

Whatevs. Keep your head in the sand.

Yea, maybe there is "a lot" of those people. I am not sure that real actual polling data shows that. I was a tepid supporter of Trump in 2016, but my support for him has grown stronger in the past couple of year. I'm optimistic that there are more people like me who will help reelect Trump for a second term.

I hope you don't mind my asking this - but where are you originally from? And does you being from another country influence your support of Trump, do you think?

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

No, I don’t think PP should disclose to you where they’re from. You’ll be attacking that country, no doubt.

What a strange comment. First, the PP sounds mature and wise enough to decide whether to share or not. Second, nope, my intention is not to attack any country, but to better understand PP's context and point of view.

Which part needs to be clarified for you? Let’s just be honest here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

[Anonymous]

I don't know whether Trump will be reelected but I can tell you that I personally, at this point, intend to vote for Trump - although I did not vote for him in 2016.

Why would I vote for Trump? I really believe the Democrats are unhinged at this point and some of their proposals are just totally bizarre. Some of these proposals, if implemented, will have the net effect of undoing this economy and that is something that I am not willing to be a party to.

There is not a single candidate for the Democratic nomination who I can get behind based on what I know about them at this point. Biden has some appeal for me but the guy really has a checkered history in terms of the positions he has adopted over the years and that tells me that he is saying and doing things as a matter of expediency. What are his core beliefs? Does he have any?

I don't like Trump as a person but he has all in all done a decent job as president.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know whether Trump will be reelected but I can tell you that I personally, at this point, intend to vote for Trump - although I did not vote for him in 2016.

Why would I vote for Trump? I really believe the Democrats are unhinged at this point and some of their proposals are just totally bizarre. Some of these proposals, if implemented, will have the net effect of undoing this economy and that is something that I am not willing to be a party to.

There is not a single candidate for the Democratic nomination who I can get behind based on what I know about them at this point. Biden has some appeal for me but the guy really has a checkered history in terms of the positions he has adopted over the years and that tells me that he is saying and doing things as a matter of expediency. What are his core beliefs? Does he have any?

I don't like Trump as a person but he has all in all done a decent job as president.

I really didn't believe that it would happen. But, people really are listening to Mitch and the line of attack he is pushing and is admitting he is pushing on people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know whether Trump will be reelected but I can tell you that I personally, at this point, intend to vote for Trump - although I did not vote for him in 2016.

Why would I vote for Trump? I really believe the Democrats are unhinged at this point and some of their proposals are just totally bizarre. Some of these proposals, if implemented, will have the net effect of undoing this economy and that is something that I am not willing to be a party to.

There is not a single candidate for the Democratic nomination who I can get behind based on what I know about them at this point. Biden has some appeal for me but the guy really has a checkered history in terms of the positions he has adopted over the years and that tells me that he is saying and doing things as a matter of expediency. What are his core beliefs? Does he have any?

I don't like Trump as a person but he has all in all done a decent job as president.

You are 100% correct. You are far wiser than most on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

Agreed, maybe PP wants to share an article or two

And, thank you for providing that context. I hope your family is doing better these days under Marxism 2.0 ...

From your original post, the only part that sounded a bit awkward to me was

"I am not sure that real actual polling data shows that."

Real and actual are basically the same so you don't need both. And, if for some reason you do, I'd probably say "actual, real polling data."

But PP may want to share his/ her much more incisive analysis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

I am the PP writer - cruel and evil seems like a vast understatement for what your family went through.

Just, for whatever it's worth - I loathe Trump but am a capitalist. I lean toward libertarian/liberal. We used to (jokingly) be called liberalatarians, and now I guess we get disparagingly called neoliberals. I do want some things that I think anti-socialists fear - government healthcare available to all, for example - but I do not want to do away with our capitalist system overall. I think it's the best of our imperfect choices. The most opportunity, the most freedom, the most safety. (Largely) free markets and freely available healthcare. I guess that would be my overall platform. I think immigrants make our society stronger, that we want to cultivate businesses, and protection of the environment is critical.

Anyway, thank you for your response. More than you could know, and probably more than is really mentally healthy, it's given me a bit of hope to be able to have a friendly back and forth with someone on this board like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know whether Trump will be reelected but I can tell you that I personally, at this point, intend to vote for Trump - although I did not vote for him in 2016.

Why would I vote for Trump? I really believe the Democrats are unhinged at this point and some of their proposals are just totally bizarre. Some of these proposals, if implemented, will have the net effect of undoing this economy and that is something that I am not willing to be a party to.

There is not a single candidate for the Democratic nomination who I can get behind based on what I know about them at this point. Biden has some appeal for me but the guy really has a checkered history in terms of the positions he has adopted over the years and that tells me that he is saying and doing things as a matter of expediency. What are his core beliefs? Does he have any?

I don't like Trump as a person but he has all in all done a decent job as president.

You are 100% correct. You are far wiser than most on this forum.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

I am the PP writer - cruel and evil seems like a vast understatement for what your family went through.

Just, for whatever it's worth - I loathe Trump but am a capitalist. I lean toward libertarian/liberal. We used to (jokingly) be called liberalatarians, and now I guess we get disparagingly called neoliberals. I do want some things that I think anti-socialists fear - government healthcare available to all, for example - but I do not want to do away with our capitalist system overall. I think it's the best of our imperfect choices. The most opportunity, the most freedom, the most safety. (Largely) free markets and freely available healthcare. I guess that would be my overall platform. I think immigrants make our society stronger, that we want to cultivate businesses, and protection of the environment is critical.

Anyway, thank you for your response. More than you could know, and probably more than is really mentally healthy, it's given me a bit of hope to be able to have a friendly back and forth with someone on this board like this.

I exactly feel the same. I believe in markets and the mechanism of price discovery. I think government should stay out of the way, but I believe also government has a very important role in protecting its citizens from unscrupulous people who will pollute and poison just to make a buck. As a Adam Smith-style capitalist, I believe EVERYTHING has a cost and that individuals/businesses should pay for the externalities they impose on others and the public goods they consume.

Unfortunately, Republicans are no longer Adam Smith capitalists. They are cronyists - imposing tariffs, tax giveaway to corporations, stifling innovation of small businesses, and not paying for use of public goods - all in exchange for campaign contributions. That is not capitalism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My step-father was visiting this weekend. He's what I call a "weak" Trump supporter: voted for him because he was sick of the status quo, encouraged everyone to "give Trump a chance" after the Inaugeration, and generally is very uncomfortable when minority Americans talk about "justice."

Now? He's completely opposed to Trump. He finds him to be despicable, both in his personal conduct and lack of respect for the troops on this Memorial Day weekend. He's excited about Biden, but admits he will likely vote for anyone the Democrats nominate.

I'd say that's the general sentiment among much of the independent white Boomer electorate.

Maybe among the wealthy class, but certainly not among those still working hard and building their 401k...

This criticism is a total non-sequitur. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who tepidly supported Trump in 2016 are majorly turned off by him this time around. You haven't really provided any thoughtful nuance to the discussion and really just polluted this thread with a baseless claim ("They're all rich!")

Whatevs. Keep your head in the sand.

Yea, maybe there is "a lot" of those people. I am not sure that real actual polling data shows that. I was a tepid supporter of Trump in 2016, but my support for him has grown stronger in the past couple of year. I'm optimistic that there are more people like me who will help reelect Trump for a second term.

I hope you don't mind my asking this - but where are you originally from? And does you being from another country influence your support of Trump, do you think?

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

Great post worth reading a few times. Well done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

I am the PP writer - cruel and evil seems like a vast understatement for what your family went through.

Just, for whatever it's worth - I loathe Trump but am a capitalist. I lean toward libertarian/liberal. We used to (jokingly) be called liberalatarians, and now I guess we get disparagingly called neoliberals. I do want some things that I think anti-socialists fear - government healthcare available to all, for example - but I do not want to do away with our capitalist system overall. I think it's the best of our imperfect choices. The most opportunity, the most freedom, the most safety. (Largely) free markets and freely available healthcare. I guess that would be my overall platform. I think immigrants make our society stronger, that we want to cultivate businesses, and protection of the environment is critical.

Anyway, thank you for your response. More than you could know, and probably more than is really mentally healthy, it's given me a bit of hope to be able to have a friendly back and forth with someone on this board like this.

I exactly feel the same. I believe in markets and the mechanism of price discovery. I think government should stay out of the way, but I believe also government has a very important role in protecting its citizens from unscrupulous people who will pollute and poison just to make a buck. As a Adam Smith-style capitalist, I believe EVERYTHING has a cost and that individuals/businesses should pay for the externalities they impose on others and the public goods they consume.

Unfortunately, Republicans are no longer Adam Smith capitalists. They are cronyists - imposing tariffs, tax giveaway to corporations, stifling innovation of small businesses, and not paying for use of public goods - all in exchange for campaign contributions. That is not capitalism.

Couldn't disagree more. That's Democrats these days, including the loonies who made Amazon cancel its NY project which would have provided significant opportunities to a whole region. That's why Hillary raised so much more money than Trump -- she had the corporations and the big donors in the bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My step-father was visiting this weekend. He's what I call a "weak" Trump supporter: voted for him because he was sick of the status quo, encouraged everyone to "give Trump a chance" after the Inaugeration, and generally is very uncomfortable when minority Americans talk about "justice."

Now? He's completely opposed to Trump. He finds him to be despicable, both in his personal conduct and lack of respect for the troops on this Memorial Day weekend. He's excited about Biden, but admits he will likely vote for anyone the Democrats nominate.

I'd say that's the general sentiment among much of the independent white Boomer electorate.

Maybe among the wealthy class, but certainly not among those still working hard and building their 401k...

This criticism is a total non-sequitur. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who tepidly supported Trump in 2016 are majorly turned off by him this time around. You haven't really provided any thoughtful nuance to the discussion and really just polluted this thread with a baseless claim ("They're all rich!")

Whatevs. Keep your head in the sand.

Yea, maybe there is "a lot" of those people. I am not sure that real actual polling data shows that. I was a tepid supporter of Trump in 2016, but my support for him has grown stronger in the past couple of year. I'm optimistic that there are more people like me who will help reelect Trump for a second term.

I hope you don't mind my asking this - but where are you originally from? And does you being from another country influence your support of Trump, do you think?

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

Great post worth reading a few times. Well done.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Holy crap, how can you tell? I didn't say anything about being a first generation immigrant. Is my English that terrible? As a matter of fact, yes I do believe that being from another country has influenced my support for Trump. Our liberal friends will find this observation incredulous but Trump reflects the traditional image of an America that values strength as a virtue and taking pride in a job well done. He has governed in the past two years by always putting the interests of America first, which is such a basic principle that for it to be somehow construed as a faulty view point by his political opponents underlines just how much the US needs to regain its sense of purpose and direction. Competition among the nations of the world is good, it is to be encouraged, and healthy - so long as everyone is competing using the same set of rules. And that brings me to the other side of the coin: I come from a country that had a failed attempt at a Marxist society, so I see the current attempt by progressives in the US to do the same as utter foolishness. The principles of classical liberalism has served the US well, and even as we adopt more socially liberal policies due to the natural progression of culture, there are certain bedrock principles that will bring the destruction of our democracy if we choose to erode them: the protection of civil liberties under the rule of law.

DP: Your English is very good! Previous PP must work for the CIA or something like that

Btw, where exactly are you from, if you don't mind? You don't sound Eastern European to me but that's the most likely "Marxist society" reference.

The PP had me pegged based on, what, three sentences? I am amazed and impressed. I hope to have read something the PP wrote. I have a lot of respect for people who are masters at their craft. Amazing.

I was originally from China. My grand parents were evil capitalists who owned printing factories, which I guess was the worst kind of capitalism. They had their factories first regulated on what they could print, then confiscated and nationalized in the name of socialism. You know what's sad is that my grandma was so scared that she didn't even dare to tell me anything about our history. On the rare occasion when my mom would slip and say something, my grandma would shush her because it was dangerous to have fond memories of the past prior to socialism. Socialism stole my family's livelihood, our freedom, and even our history. It is cruel and evil.

I am the PP writer - cruel and evil seems like a vast understatement for what your family went through.

Just, for whatever it's worth - I loathe Trump but am a capitalist. I lean toward libertarian/liberal. We used to (jokingly) be called liberalatarians, and now I guess we get disparagingly called neoliberals. I do want some things that I think anti-socialists fear - government healthcare available to all, for example - but I do not want to do away with our capitalist system overall. I think it's the best of our imperfect choices. The most opportunity, the most freedom, the most safety. (Largely) free markets and freely available healthcare. I guess that would be my overall platform. I think immigrants make our society stronger, that we want to cultivate businesses, and protection of the environment is critical.

Anyway, thank you for your response. More than you could know, and probably more than is really mentally healthy, it's given me a bit of hope to be able to have a friendly back and forth with someone on this board like this.

I exactly feel the same. I believe in markets and the mechanism of price discovery. I think government should stay out of the way, but I believe also government has a very important role in protecting its citizens from unscrupulous people who will pollute and poison just to make a buck. As a Adam Smith-style capitalist, I believe EVERYTHING has a cost and that individuals/businesses should pay for the externalities they impose on others and the public goods they consume.

Unfortunately, Republicans are no longer Adam Smith capitalists. They are cronyists - imposing tariffs, tax giveaway to corporations, stifling innovation of small businesses, and not paying for use of public goods - all in exchange for campaign contributions. That is not capitalism.

Couldn't disagree more. That's Democrats these days, including the loonies who made Amazon cancel its NY project which would have provided significant opportunities to a whole region. That's why Hillary raised so much more money than Trump -- she had the corporations and the big donors in the bank.

Amazon pulled out because NY was threatening to take away the tax incentives. How is that capitalism when a private sector incumbent is completely dependent on a tax giveaway?

Again, you are no Adam Smith capitalist. You are a cronyist.

[Anonymous]

I did not and cannot judge any particular person. What I do notice is that independent boomers in my workplace seem to appreciate the labor market we have and the significant 401k increase they have seen since 2016.

Whether they will vote against their interests is to be seen.

FYI - 50% of Americans have no investment in the stock market - not even in mutual funds or a 401k. If they ever start voting their interest things will be markedly different, that's for sure.