Vox admissions article

[Anonymous]

I have a theory about the AA SAT scores. I’m a black female who went into a test heavy field (medicine) later in life, my family was pretty well off. The biggest thing I realized is the black community does not value these tests period. For example, we don’t really practice for the sat in my community or see it as something you can practice for. You kind of just take it and move on... we value other things in life. So when I went to take my McAT and was researching it, I can to find out that you can practice for these tests! I know it sounds dumb but literally I just thought it was a measure of intelligence that you couldn’t prep for.. Many of the Asian kids learned to drill for standardized tests at a young age, so of course they knew how to take the tests or tests. Simply put, the black community does not value these tests in the same way. At least in my community, we valued church and community. One should def look into Nigerian test scores as they are black but def value tests more as a community. Anyway, my husband and I will likely be UMC and have UMC kids but again we don’t value drilling SAT tests and such, we haven’t decided yet how we will handle this, as we also don’t see the huge point of drilling for tests at a young age, but I guess that would reproduce the chart above.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for all grammar mistakes! On iPad. But you get the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Excellent read!!

I thought it was interesting, too. I guess I'm not one of the minimally well-informed PPs who already knew all of this information.

FTFY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory about the AA SAT scores. I’m a black female who went into a test heavy field (medicine) later in life, my family was pretty well off. The biggest thing I realized is the black community does not value these tests period. For example, we don’t really practice for the sat in my community or see it as something you can practice for. You kind of just take it and move on... we value other things in life. So when I went to take my McAT and was researching it, I can to find out that you can practice for these tests! I know it sounds dumb but literally I just thought it was a measure of intelligence that you couldn’t prep for.. Many of the Asian kids learned to drill for standardized tests at a young age, so of course they knew how to take the tests or tests. Simply put, the black community does not value these tests in the same way. At least in my community, we valued church and community. One should def look into Nigerian test scores as they are black but def value tests more as a community. Anyway, my husband and I will likely be UMC and have UMC kids but again we don’t value drilling SAT tests and such, we haven’t decided yet how we will handle this, as we also don’t see the huge point of drilling for tests at a young age, but I guess that would reproduce the chart above.

What are you trying to say here? That the black community, regardless of SES, is so fundamentally clueless about the college admissions process that it, collectively, ignores an important component of that process, because there isn't "value" in it? Or that the black community doesn't "value" a college education?

I really have no idea of the point you're trying to make, but it's clear that whatever it is, it's not very flattering to you, your family, or the other members of your community.

[Anonymous]

No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

DP. Your post makes little sense. Nobody inherently “values” practicing for a standardized test but you’d be a fool not to realize that like with everything, practice can only improve the outcome. And what does any of this have to do with status? It has everything to do with culturally placing a value on education.....that’s it. And why resort to vulgarities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

Thanks PP, exactly right. This is what I meant but you put it elegantly. My husband and I struggle with this as I made the decision to pursue a test heavy path and I now prep tirelessly and get great results and top scores but there is a mental health toll I’ve noticed for my some of Asian classmates so I’m not sure how to balance this with future kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

Not the PP you’re responding to but when I took the SATs 25 years ago Kaplan and Princeton Review would bombard us all with their marketing for test prep courses and books. You couldn’t possibly not realize that prep was an option. You could choose to ignore it of course but that’s an issue of priorities. And nobody bills these college admissions standardized tests as general IQ tests.....that’s not how they are positioned nor perceived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

NP. Yes, the original PP was completely clear and forthright, the PP above is willfully twisting her points, and insulting. But there's a lot invested in this, of course there are communities that want the tests to have an outsized importance. That doesn't have to break down along race lines, anyone who has discovered that these tests are beatable, is going to beat them, and then claim the results are a measure of innate intelligence and should be the decider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

Not the PP you’re responding to but when I took the SATs 25 years ago Kaplan and Princeton Review would bombard us all with their marketing for test prep courses and books. You couldn’t possibly not realize that prep was an option. You could choose to ignore it of course but that’s an issue of priorities. And nobody bills these college admissions standardized tests as general IQ tests.....that’s not how they are positioned nor perceived.

This post shows you completely missed the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

Not the PP you’re responding to but when I took the SATs 25 years ago Kaplan and Princeton Review would bombard us all with their marketing for test prep courses and books. You couldn’t possibly not realize that prep was an option. You could choose to ignore it of course but that’s an issue of priorities. And nobody bills these college admissions standardized tests as general IQ tests.....that’s not how they are positioned nor perceived.

DP. Yeah, I remember the same, but one it was a smaller thing than today, and two the flip side of the ads were the stories and studies about how prep has negligible effect. Truth is prep is very effective, especially individual tutoring, but the families who don't give the cost of prep a second thought are most likely to stumble on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No asshole it’s that’s not everything isn’t about a stupid test and maybe we value other important things in life and also we were feed the idea that it measures intelligence, so the Why prep for something that is intelligence based. Not every community is obsessed with status.

Of course not everything is about a test. But, a significant portion of college admissions *is* about the SAT/ACT. If you, or the black community, value other things in life, go for it. But that comes at a cost.

The more you post, though, the more I come to believe that your "thoughts" about the black community are nonsense, and you're just not very bright. And that is the most charitable thing I can say about you.

DP: Wow, your interpretation of her/his post is wildly off the mark. Actually she is pointing to something that is well-supported by research--not just in the black community, but more generally in the US. We tend towards a fixed mindset about intelligence/intelligence tests and SATs are billed as a test of intelligence. Asian communities tend towards an effort-based approach to tests. She was pointing out that this was such an ingrained part of the culture (which it was in my middle class white upbringing too) that she didn't even realize you could practice for it. She pointed to how she changed when she figured out that she could study for the MCAT. Yes, the fixed mindset has limitations, but it was a cultural pattern that has shaped a lot of practices in US community--there isn't a culture of test prep. Sure, now that so many people are "prepping" it has grown, but it's a reluctant acceptance--because we have a world-class university system that wasn't based on test prep. And since many elite colleges are responding to the massive test prep for a test that doesn't predict much by becoming test optional, she's not alone in her views.

NP. Yes, the original PP was completely clear and forthright, the PP above is willfully twisting her points, and insulting. But there's a lot invested in this, of course there are communities that want the tests to have an outsized importance. That doesn't have to break down along race lines, anyone who has discovered that these tests are beatable, is going to beat them, and then claim the results are a measure of innate intelligence and should be the decider.

No one's claiming that. But, if it is common knowledge that (i) the tests are "beatable" and (ii) have a significant impact on college admissions, and a PP, (or, in her telling, and entire community) decided to ignore that fact because other things in life are more important, then I'm not terribly inclined to give two hoots when college admissions for that community are "inferior" to those of other communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vox is a regressive propaganda company.
It's like listening to MTV on advice for college.

Only conservatives who are stuck in their billionaire-controlled bubble of lies think this.

Vox is a bunch of smart people who think deeply and speak the truth.
That’s threatening to conservatives, who need to control the media message. That’s why they slam Vox.