MCPS Local Magnet Middle School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Except that the highest achievers are in the magnets.

Genuinely curious here. You know that this isn't true. MCPS has been clear that with the cohort criteria high achieving kids from high performing schools will get rejected while lower scoring kids from lower performing schools will get in.

What are you gaining from lying about something that even MCPS isn't disputing?

Not PP, but the point is that zero feeder middle schools sent no kids under the revised system. This suggests that the highest performers in each cohort were selected. Yes, it means kids are being graded on a curve, but that's not the same as what is being alleged.

I don't think a curve is the right analogy. There is a wide range of performance and number of high performers across the schools.

Lets say school A has the top 5 high performers in the entire county but school B only has students barely meeting the bottom of the lowered standard. 4 of the students that are at the very top of the system get rejected and the student at the bottom of the lowered standard gets in. This by definition means that the magnet is no longer made up of the highest performing students. The larger number of highest achievers are back in the top home schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Except that the highest achievers are in the magnets.

Genuinely curious here. You know that this isn't true. MCPS has been clear that with the cohort criteria high achieving kids from high performing schools will get rejected while lower scoring kids from lower performing schools will get in.

What are you gaining from lying about something that even MCPS isn't disputing?

Only the very highest scores are admitted. Isn't that what all this winging is about?

[Anonymous]

I guess central office PR spinners are out today. Good job bringing down the quality of the magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How will equity change the numbers? This small percentage of kids won't make a dent in the achievement gap. The state and feds look at the aggregate for each group. Even if the entire magnets were comprised of FARM and/or URM kids it wouldnt change the average scores across the county.

It doesn't but many in MCPS hate that millions are spent on educating pre-dominantly gifted asian students when that money could be going toward ending the achievement gap. This started back with Starr who pushed for the consultant engagement on the GT/Magnet program with an eye toward ending it. The end goal is shutting down the magnet program and using the funds elsewhere.
They've already gotten closer to that goal by lowering the academic qualifications of students in the magnets. The next step is to revise the magnet curriculum so that the less qualified kids can do well. The home schools will end up with he same watered down magnet curriculum. There will be no reason to bus a kid to a magnet anymore so money saved.

..... and the highest achievers who would have been in the true magnet program will flee to privates. This will help the overall goal of reducing the achievement gap by working top down.

If my high achiever CES kid could stay at home middle school with an enriched curriculum that is similar to, but not quite as good as, the current magnet enrichment, I would be absolutely thrilled. I want DC with kids who can move at a similar pace, who actually care to learn, and in classes that have high expectations and decent challenges. I don’t care if it isn’t the HIGHEST challenge. Just basic decent school.

Good luck finding 10 science teachers who can effectively teach Quantum Physics, Thermodynamics, Cellular Physiology, Genetic Analysis, Organic Chemistry, and Neuroscience. The idea of creating an "enriched curriculum" at the W's that's anywhere near the one offered at Blair is a pipe dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How will equity change the numbers? This small percentage of kids won't make a dent in the achievement gap. The state and feds look at the aggregate for each group. Even if the entire magnets were comprised of FARM and/or URM kids it wouldnt change the average scores across the county.

It doesn't but many in MCPS hate that millions are spent on educating pre-dominantly gifted asian students when that money could be going toward ending the achievement gap. This started back with Starr who pushed for the consultant engagement on the GT/Magnet program with an eye toward ending it. The end goal is shutting down the magnet program and using the funds elsewhere.
They've already gotten closer to that goal by lowering the academic qualifications of students in the magnets. The next step is to revise the magnet curriculum so that the less qualified kids can do well. The home schools will end up with he same watered down magnet curriculum. There will be no reason to bus a kid to a magnet anymore so money saved.

..... and the highest achievers who would have been in the true magnet program will flee to privates. This will help the overall goal of reducing the achievement gap by working top down.

If my high achiever CES kid could stay at home middle school with an enriched curriculum that is similar to, but not quite as good as, the current magnet enrichment, I would be absolutely thrilled. I want DC with kids who can move at a similar pace, who actually care to learn, and in classes that have high expectations and decent challenges. I don’t care if it isn’t the HIGHEST challenge. Just basic decent school.

Good luck finding 10 science teachers who can effectively teach Quantum Physics, Thermodynamics, Cellular Physiology, Genetic Analysis, Organic Chemistry, and Neuroscience. The idea of creating an "enriched curriculum" at the W's that's anywhere near the one offered at Blair is a pipe dream.

We're talking about middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I knew my kid, who scored 99% on quantitative and 99% on nonverbal CogAT, would get high-level math instruction at his home middle school, I would be fine sending him there. However, I've been reading that even the enriched class instruction level varies by school, and that our home school is particularly low, and is pretty much the same as previous "regular" math classes there, with the "regular" math classes being that much lower now. Last year's class couldn't actually make up a real "cohort" of advanced students. Either the central office lied and just put the "top" kids together, or so many moved away (I know of 2 who were at CES for 5th grade, got rejected form magnets, and moved) that they no longer had 20 qualified students. Regardless, the teacher has been working to keep the lowest students at minimum levels, while the higher-level students are bored and worried about their chances at Blair SMAC in 2 years. From what I've heard about the world studies class, they throw a few extra facts at them, but it's not significantly different, either.

One mom currently at that school, whose child is in the enriched math class, said she's planning on moving her family after this school year because she's compared what her child is learning to friends' kids at other 6th grade enriched math and it's not even close. She wants to move to the Sligo MS area.

I feel really sorry for anyone moving to MoCo in the summer after the decisions have been made for spots, or changing schools between middle school grades, as their options are severely limited.

So ... back to the thread topic about three pages ago ...

Newsflash - even in the MSCS magnets the math classes are still following MCPS curriculum. Algebra 1 is still Algebra 1 and Magnet Geometry is actually still just Honors Geometry. Yes they go through concepts quickly because it is a strong cohort, but they don't cover more material, they just do extensions for each topic - projects and critical thinking about challenge problems. My kid in the middle school humanities program was also math/science smart and did just fine taking Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry with the general population (yes, horribly bored). They are still just flying through MVC in high school. And my kid in the MSCS magnet didn't get some special leg up - they are on track to just fly through MVC at the same grade the humanities kid did. My point is, by the time you hit IM and Algebra 1, your pathway is pretty much set, and if you have a strong math student, they will be just fine no matter the exact program.

The actual curriculum is not as huge of a factor as the cohort of kids is. The curriculum has a set pace. Slower kids don't "slow down" the curriculum, they just take the entire designated time to cover the topic. A mixed class of slow kids and fast kids just means that some are done and waiting, while others are still working. A good teacher can manage that and provide enrichment. Many teachers unfortunately don't. A full class of fast kids means that at the end of each unit there is extra time, which can be filled with enrichment. The magnet curriculum includes that enrichment and teachers teach it. The new enriched classes are supposed to have that enrichment.

If the teachers are not teaching the enrichment in the new courses, that is the fault of the teachers, department head, and principal, and parents need to demand that they do. This is the very first year of implementation, and it isn't like it was rolled out with full understanding of everyone involved. If it isn't effective yet, parents need to make a stink at their middle school until it is effective. If you were identified for a home-school cohort and don't think your kid was placed in a cohort, they go ask RIGHT NOW how they are scheduling 7th grade classes. Call an emergency PTA meeting. Start a local school GT-Parent Advisory Committee to monitor and ask questions. Schools are doing course placement right now for next year. Ask what the course code it for the enriched classes and make sure that is the course code your child is scheduled for.

In the long run, a home-school test in (by MCPS COGAT %) criteria is more sustainable and will serve more students. If it can be effective for two classes, there's better argument to stretch it to the four core classes. If your school has at least 20 kids, you get the classes. Otherwise the outliers go to a central magnet. (And hopefully the county figures out how to program for all kids that meet the criteria one way or another.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash - even in the MSCS magnets the math classes are still following MCPS curriculum. Algebra 1 is still Algebra 1 and Magnet Geometry is actually still just Honors Geometry. Yes they go through concepts quickly because it is a strong cohort, but they don't cover more material, they just do extensions for each topic - projects and critical thinking about challenge problems. My kid in the middle school humanities program was also math/science smart and did just fine taking Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry with the general population (yes, horribly bored). They are still just flying through MVC in high school. And my kid in the MSCS magnet didn't get some special leg up - they are on track to just fly through MVC at the same grade the humanities kid did. My point is, by the time you hit IM and Algebra 1, your pathway is pretty much set, and if you have a strong math student, they will be just fine no matter the exact program.

The actual curriculum is not as huge of a factor as the cohort of kids is. The curriculum has a set pace. Slower kids don't "slow down" the curriculum, they just take the entire designated time to cover the topic. A mixed class of slow kids and fast kids just means that some are done and waiting, while others are still working. A good teacher can manage that and provide enrichment. Many teachers unfortunately don't. A full class of fast kids means that at the end of each unit there is extra time, which can be filled with enrichment. The magnet curriculum includes that enrichment and teachers teach it. The new enriched classes are supposed to have that enrichment.

If the teachers are not teaching the enrichment in the new courses, that is the fault of the teachers, department head, and principal, and parents need to demand that they do. This is the very first year of implementation, and it isn't like it was rolled out with full understanding of everyone involved. If it isn't effective yet, parents need to make a stink at their middle school until it is effective. If you were identified for a home-school cohort and don't think your kid was placed in a cohort, they go ask RIGHT NOW how they are scheduling 7th grade classes. Call an emergency PTA meeting. Start a local school GT-Parent Advisory Committee to monitor and ask questions. Schools are doing course placement right now for next year. Ask what the course code it for the enriched classes and make sure that is the course code your child is scheduled for.

In the long run, a home-school test in (by MCPS COGAT %) criteria is more sustainable and will serve more students. If it can be effective for two classes, there's better argument to stretch it to the four core classes. If your school has at least 20 kids, you get the classes. Otherwise the outliers go to a central magnet. (And hopefully the county figures out how to program for all kids that meet the criteria one way or another.)

At the beginning of Magnet Geometry, there is an extra "Boolean Algebra" unit. TPMS magnet students do more enrichment and application AND have an extra unit or two with more information. As for Eastern, the discussion and depth is what matters and counts. Often teachers discuss the topics in depth more and have more writing projects and it's at a quicker pace, which allows for the coverage of more material or projects like Shakespeare skits, Greekfest, IDRP, Constitutional Convention, and a month-long essay about the crucible. DS has interesting Geometry class in 8th grade-- two 7th graders taking it and at least five "non-magnet' kids. Doesn't change the pace or content of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the key here is still keep a test-in requirement to prevent watering down the curriculum.

+ 1

Do both. Keep the magnets as is and increase magnet offerings in the home schools.

Frankly, there is no reason that magnet curriculum cannot be offered to home school students grouped by abilities within the homeschool. Why not? But you will realize that there is no magnet curriculum per se and the magnet teachers do not have any special certification to teach magnet kids.

Magnet curriculum should be made public and be available online. All students who want to access it should be allowed to at least access the curriculum, if not the instruction.

FWIW, my kids have been in the test-in magnets since ES and my youngest is in HS now. He got into a highly selective STEM institute of technology. At this point the fate of magnet programs does not impact my children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the key here is still keep a test-in requirement to prevent watering down the curriculum.

+ 1

Do both. Keep the magnets as is and increase magnet offerings in the home schools.

Frankly, there is no reason that magnet curriculum cannot be offered to home school students grouped by abilities within the homeschool. Why not? But you will realize that there is no magnet curriculum per se and the magnet teachers do not have any special certification to teach magnet kids.

Magnet curriculum should be made public and be available online. All students who want to access it should be allowed to at least access the curriculum, if not the instruction.

FWIW, my kids have been in the test-in magnets since ES and my youngest is in HS now. He got into a highly selective STEM institute of technology. At this point the fate of magnet programs does not impact my children.

I do think the experience of teaching magnet kids does affect teacher ability, though. I have a kid in CES and the teaching style is so different. They give the kids a lot more ownership of their learning — less instruction and more exploration. The kids check their own math homework and figure out why they got work wrong. They never drill. They have multiple overlapping homework projects to plan and complete. The teachers spend a lot of time helping the kids learn to listen to other points of view and debate topics while listening to and responding to the points of others (these are kids who are used to being “right” and can really use some lessons in listening to other classmates!). They grade much more sternly, but with much more feedback. And they digress! My kid loves that his teacher often loops way from the original lesson plan to talk about some other point of interest.

It really seems like the way to teach MOST kids, and there is a joy and challenge to the class that I wish existed throughout the system.