MCPS Local Magnet Middle School

[Anonymous]

If I knew my kid, who scored 99% on quantitative and 99% on nonverbal CogAT, would get high-level math instruction at his home middle school, I would be fine sending him there. However, I've been reading that even the enriched class instruction level varies by school, and that our home school is particularly low, and is pretty much the same as previous "regular" math classes there, with the "regular" math classes being that much lower now. Last year's class couldn't actually make up a real "cohort" of advanced students. Either the central office lied and just put the "top" kids together, or so many moved away (I know of 2 who were at CES for 5th grade, got rejected form magnets, and moved) that they no longer had 20 qualified students. Regardless, the teacher has been working to keep the lowest students at minimum levels, while the higher-level students are bored and worried about their chances at Blair SMAC in 2 years. From what I've heard about the world studies class, they throw a few extra facts at them, but it's not significantly different, either.

One mom currently at that school, whose child is in the enriched math class, said she's planning on moving her family after this school year because she's compared what her child is learning to friends' kids at other 6th grade enriched math and it's not even close. She wants to move to the Sligo MS area.

I feel really sorry for anyone moving to MoCo in the summer after the decisions have been made for spots, or changing schools between middle school grades, as their options are severely limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I knew my kid, who scored 99% on quantitative and 99% on nonverbal CogAT, would get high-level math instruction at his home middle school, I would be fine sending him there. However, I've been reading that even the enriched class instruction level varies by school, and that our home school is particularly low, and is pretty much the same as previous "regular" math classes there, with the "regular" math classes being that much lower now. Last year's class couldn't actually make up a real "cohort" of advanced students. Either the central office lied and just put the "top" kids together, or so many moved away (I know of 2 who were at CES for 5th grade, got rejected form magnets, and moved) that they no longer had 20 qualified students. Regardless, the teacher has been working to keep the lowest students at minimum levels, while the higher-level students are bored and worried about their chances at Blair SMAC in 2 years. From what I've heard about the world studies class, they throw a few extra facts at them, but it's not significantly different, either.

One mom currently at that school, whose child is in the enriched math class, said she's planning on moving her family after this school year because she's compared what her child is learning to friends' kids at other 6th grade enriched math and it's not even close. She wants to move to the Sligo MS area.

I feel really sorry for anyone moving to MoCo in the summer after the decisions have been made for spots, or changing schools between middle school grades, as their options are severely limited.

Is that 99% MCPS average? If so, are you appealing--clearly, your child is an outlier? Seems like your kid doesn't have a large cohort and I am surprised your child wasn't at least waitlisted for TPMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the sound of some of these posts, parents are more concerned about the status of getting into Eastern or Takoma than the actual classroom experience their children will have. Why this immediate assumption that enriched classes at home middle schools won’t be good? Are the Takoma and Eastern classes taught by Harvard faculty? They are all MCPS middle school teachers. Some of them move from teaching at one school to teaching at another every year. They’re all qualified. There’s no reason they can’t teach good enriched classes.

Sure, that should be true at W feeder schools or where a class full of CES students (Carson, Stonegate, Matsunaga, etc.) was rejected from magnets, there will be plenty of high achievers left behind to form an enriched class that can be fast-moving and appeal to all of the high achievers. But lots of the local MS, especially in the DCC, do not have a student population that supports a cohort that can learn at that level. Even the best teacher in MCPS has to make sure that her students are keeping up. Maybe 10 are sufficiently advanced (and at some schools, that's pushing it), but the teacher has to slow down for the other 10+. Last year, when they determined the cohorts, they did not take into account people who can leave moving, getting into a lottery MS, or appealing and getting into a magnet off of the waitlist. The magnet waitlist is not based on local schools or cohorts - it's a straight-up lottery, and being unranked means there's too much uncertainty to build a future. Therefore, by the time the school year started, at some DCC middle schools, there were significantly fewer than 20 students left for the originally-defined cohort, so the spots were filled with students from the next tier down based on elementary school recommendations.

There's also the simple fact that the magnet decision committee refuses to publish how they define a "cohort" and how they define an outlier. I get there being 20+ students in the 95+% (i.e., 2 standard deviations) in some of the W feeder schools, but that's simply not the case for many DCC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than re-creating "magnet" programs in middle schools, why not offer true honors classes for the MS core courses (Social Studies, English, Math, Science). Most advanced children would be served by these, and they can stay in neighborhood schools. MCPS can keep the regional magnets open for the kids who are true outliers.

This seems like a no-brainer. As much as magnet programs that focus on STEM or humanities appeal to some kids, keeping it more general ala carte as it were is probably a good idea too.

I also think communities impacted by this should advocate for these changes strongly.

This will not achieve the school boards #1 goal which is reducing the achievement gap. The achievement gap must be closed in both directions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the sound of some of these posts, parents are more concerned about the status of getting into Eastern or Takoma than the actual classroom experience their children will have. Why this immediate assumption that enriched classes at home middle schools won’t be good? Are the Takoma and Eastern classes taught by Harvard faculty? They are all MCPS middle school teachers. Some of them move from teaching at one school to teaching at another every year. They’re all qualified. There’s no reason they can’t teach good enriched classes.

Sure, that should be true at W feeder schools or where a class full of CES students (Carson, Stonegate, Matsunaga, etc.) was rejected from magnets, there will be plenty of high achievers left behind to form an enriched class that can be fast-moving and appeal to all of the high achievers. But lots of the local MS, especially in the DCC, do not have a student population that supports a cohort that can learn at that level. Even the best teacher in MCPS has to make sure that her students are keeping up. Maybe 10 are sufficiently advanced (and at some schools, that's pushing it), but the teacher has to slow down for the other 10+. Last year, when they determined the cohorts, they did not take into account people who can leave moving, getting into a lottery MS, or appealing and getting into a magnet off of the waitlist. The magnet waitlist is not based on local schools or cohorts - it's a straight-up lottery, and being unranked means there's too much uncertainty to build a future. Therefore, by the time the school year started, at some DCC middle schools, there were significantly fewer than 20 students left for the originally-defined cohort, so the spots were filled with students from the next tier down based on elementary school recommendations.

There's also the simple fact that the magnet decision committee refuses to publish how they define a "cohort" and how they define an outlier. I get there being 20+ students in the 95+% (i.e., 2 standard deviations) in some of the W feeder schools, but that's simply not the case for many DCC schools.

Um, you claim to know a great deal about "lots of" or "some" or "many" DCC middle schools. Do you work for MCPS, or are you just making stuff up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the sound of some of these posts, parents are more concerned about the status of getting into Eastern or Takoma than the actual classroom experience their children will have. Why this immediate assumption that enriched classes at home middle schools won’t be good? Are the Takoma and Eastern classes taught by Harvard faculty? They are all MCPS middle school teachers. Some of them move from teaching at one school to teaching at another every year. They’re all qualified. There’s no reason they can’t teach good enriched classes.

Sure, that should be true at W feeder schools or where a class full of CES students (Carson, Stonegate, Matsunaga, etc.) was rejected from magnets, there will be plenty of high achievers left behind to form an enriched class that can be fast-moving and appeal to all of the high achievers. But lots of the local MS, especially in the DCC, do not have a student population that supports a cohort that can learn at that level. Even the best teacher in MCPS has to make sure that her students are keeping up. Maybe 10 are sufficiently advanced (and at some schools, that's pushing it), but the teacher has to slow down for the other 10+. Last year, when they determined the cohorts, they did not take into account people who can leave moving, getting into a lottery MS, or appealing and getting into a magnet off of the waitlist. The magnet waitlist is not based on local schools or cohorts - it's a straight-up lottery, and being unranked means there's too much uncertainty to build a future. Therefore, by the time the school year started, at some DCC middle schools, there were significantly fewer than 20 students left for the originally-defined cohort, so the spots were filled with students from the next tier down based on elementary school recommendations.

There's also the simple fact that the magnet decision committee refuses to publish how they define a "cohort" and how they define an outlier. I get there being 20+ students in the 95+% (i.e., 2 standard deviations) in some of the W feeder schools, but that's simply not the case for many DCC schools.

It would be interesting to see the numbers for the entire county’s middle schoolers - how many schools really do not have a cohort for the enriched classes. Perhaps it would be effective to have a few schools with smaller, truly enriched classes (10-15 kids) than to bus them to central magnets. If many middle schools do not have a basic cohort for at least 2 classes, then I could see the magnets remaining more effective, both in cost and student impact. This policy of 20 kids in the class, whether or not they were initially selected, seems to just bring back the whole problem of the honors classes becoming so watered down.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know who determines placement at the home school magnet classes? Is it the home school or the same group that made the Eastern/Takoma decisions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know who determines placement at the home school magnet classes? Is it the home school or the same group that made the Eastern/Takoma decisions?

Last year it was the central office created the original list; However, principals could add to the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than re-creating "magnet" programs in middle schools, why not offer true honors classes for the MS core courses (Social Studies, English, Math, Science). Most advanced children would be served by these, and they can stay in neighborhood schools. MCPS can keep the regional magnets open for the kids who are true outliers.

This seems like a no-brainer. As much as magnet programs that focus on STEM or humanities appeal to some kids, keeping it more general ala carte as it were is probably a good idea too.

I also think communities impacted by this should advocate for these changes strongly.

This will not achieve the school boards #1 goal which is reducing the achievement gap. The achievement gap must be closed in both directions.

Oh, there's the "MCPS is deliberately trying to make my smart kid dumb!" theme again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than re-creating "magnet" programs in middle schools, why not offer true honors classes for the MS core courses (Social Studies, English, Math, Science). Most advanced children would be served by these, and they can stay in neighborhood schools. MCPS can keep the regional magnets open for the kids who are true outliers.

This seems like a no-brainer. As much as magnet programs that focus on STEM or humanities appeal to some kids, keeping it more general ala carte as it were is probably a good idea too.

I also think communities impacted by this should advocate for these changes strongly.

This will not achieve the school boards #1 goal which is reducing the achievement gap. The achievement gap must be closed in both directions.

Oh, there's the "MCPS is deliberately trying to make my smart kid dumb!" theme again.

I also don't understand how this works. The smart/high-achieving kids will still do well on MAP and PARCC tests, magnet or no magnet, which is how the achievement gap is measured. How will this move by MCPS close the achievement gap from both directions? Are their significant numbers of high-achieving kids going from 90+ to 80 or lower because they don't have access to the magnet? Someone, please explain!

[Anonymous]

This is the reason - Please explain how this would help to close the achievement gap?

Please noted that one of the Core Values is "Equity", which states that "......equity demands the elimination of all gaps......"
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/about/mission.aspx

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than re-creating "magnet" programs in middle schools, why not offer true honors classes for the MS core courses (Social Studies, English, Math, Science). Most advanced children would be served by these, and they can stay in neighborhood schools. MCPS can keep the regional magnets open for the kids who are true outliers.

This seems like a no-brainer. As much as magnet programs that focus on STEM or humanities appeal to some kids, keeping it more general ala carte as it were is probably a good idea too.

I also think communities impacted by this should advocate for these changes strongly.

This will not achieve the school boards #1 goal which is reducing the achievement gap. The achievement gap must be closed in both directions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the reason - Please explain how this would help to close the achievement gap?

Please noted that one of the Core Values is "Equity", which states that "......equity demands the elimination of all gaps......"
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/about/mission.aspx

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than re-creating "magnet" programs in middle schools, why not offer true honors classes for the MS core courses (Social Studies, English, Math, Science). Most advanced children would be served by these, and they can stay in neighborhood schools. MCPS can keep the regional magnets open for the kids who are true outliers.

This seems like a no-brainer. As much as magnet programs that focus on STEM or humanities appeal to some kids, keeping it more general ala carte as it were is probably a good idea too.

I also think communities impacted by this should advocate for these changes strongly.

This will not achieve the school boards #1 goal which is reducing the achievement gap. The achievement gap must be closed in both directions.

How will equity change the numbers? This small percentage of kids won't make a dent in the achievement gap. The state and feds look at the aggregate for each group. Even if the entire magnets were comprised of FARM and/or URM kids it wouldnt change the average scores across the county.

[Anonymous]

How will equity change the numbers? This small percentage of kids won't make a dent in the achievement gap. The state and feds look at the aggregate for each group. Even if the entire magnets were comprised of FARM and/or URM kids it wouldnt change the average scores across the county.

It doesn't but many in MCPS hate that millions are spent on educating pre-dominantly gifted asian students when that money could be going toward ending the achievement gap. This started back with Starr who pushed for the consultant engagement on the GT/Magnet program with an eye toward ending it. The end goal is shutting down the magnet program and using the funds elsewhere.
They've already gotten closer to that goal by lowering the academic qualifications of students in the magnets. The next step is to revise the magnet curriculum so that the less qualified kids can do well. The home schools will end up with he same watered down magnet curriculum. There will be no reason to bus a kid to a magnet anymore so money saved.

[Anonymous]

Back to "MCPS is deliberately trying to make my smart kid dumb!". Except in the "MCPS is deliberately trying to make my smart Asian-American kid dumb!" version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How will equity change the numbers? This small percentage of kids won't make a dent in the achievement gap. The state and feds look at the aggregate for each group. Even if the entire magnets were comprised of FARM and/or URM kids it wouldnt change the average scores across the county.

It doesn't but many in MCPS hate that millions are spent on educating pre-dominantly gifted asian students when that money could be going toward ending the achievement gap. This started back with Starr who pushed for the consultant engagement on the GT/Magnet program with an eye toward ending it. The end goal is shutting down the magnet program and using the funds elsewhere.
They've already gotten closer to that goal by lowering the academic qualifications of students in the magnets. The next step is to revise the magnet curriculum so that the less qualified kids can do well. The home schools will end up with he same watered down magnet curriculum. There will be no reason to bus a kid to a magnet anymore so money saved.

..... and the highest achievers who would have been in the true magnet program will flee to privates. This will help the overall goal of reducing the achievement gap by working top down.