AAP official percentage of 20.8%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then, by all means, take your 1% special snowflake who needs to be catered to and find a private school that will meet your needs.

Wow. So, in your view, parents who have kids with a 140+ IQ and want them to receive appropriate gifted education, as mandated by the state, are whiny special snowflakes, yet the masses of parents with bright, mainstream kids who are expecting their kids to be given a gifted label, bused to a completely different school, and separated from those unwashed masses with IQs and achievement levels only a hair's breadth lower are perfectly fine? My DD is a very average AAP kid. She's bright and high achieving, but not gifted. We're going along with the system, because it is what it is, but the whole thing is really absurd. Of the 30 kids in her grade who were accepted into LIV, maybe 5 of them really needed it. The rest are just normal, bright kids.

Truly gifted kids cannot be educated in a mass produced setting like public school. Nurturing a true gift requires a highly individualized, tailored approach. You won't find this in public schools because it is simply impossible, just like it's impossible to raise an Olympic champion in group lessons.

AAP is a program for bright, high-performing kids who can easily master the program and keep up with an advanced pace. Nothing else. If your child is truly gifted, you will have to shape his or her education depending on what their particular gift requires.

[Anonymous]

FCPS G/T served gifted kids quite well. There’s no reason that they needed to expand the program from 5% to 20%. Many smaller metro regions have dedicated gifted programming that requires a 99th percentile score. FCPS certainly could do the same.

[Anonymous]

While looking for something else, I came across this article from 1990. It describes the Fairfax G/T program as 20% of students.

https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1990122800

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason for all the bloat is AAP kids aren't very special.

It's embarrassing when Gen Ed kids do better academically. AAP begrudgingly, eventually, admits the high performers rather than suffer more embarrassment.

This is part of it. Whenever I read someone complaining about AAP being “watered down” for the “truly gifted” child I roll my eyes. I child with a wisc IQ of 137 is actually not that different from a child with an IQ in the above average range. A kid who has been heavily prepped in math so that he tests 3 years ahead on standardized tests isn’t that different from a kid with an above average IQ.

The midwestern town I’m from has a self contained classroom for kids with math and reading (both. Not just one domain. And an IQ above 140) scores above the 99.8th percentile. Very few of your kids would make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for all the bloat is AAP kids aren't very special.

It's embarrassing when Gen Ed kids do better academically. AAP begrudgingly, eventually, admits the high performers rather than suffer more embarrassment.

This is part of it. Whenever I read someone complaining about AAP being “watered down” for the “truly gifted” child I roll my eyes. I child with a wisc IQ of 137 is actually not that different from a child with an IQ in the above average range. A kid who has been heavily prepped in math so that he tests 3 years ahead on standardized tests isn’t that different from a kid with an above average IQ.

The midwestern town I’m from has a self contained classroom for kids with math and reading (both. Not just one domain. And an IQ above 140) scores above the 99.8th percentile. Very few of your kids would make the cut.

I agree that very few AAP kids would make the cut for your town's program. But, there really isn't much of a difference between a WISC 137 and a WISC 140. It's like one question and a difference between 99.5th and 99.7th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for all the bloat is AAP kids aren't very special.

It's embarrassing when Gen Ed kids do better academically. AAP begrudgingly, eventually, admits the high performers rather than suffer more embarrassment.

This is part of it. Whenever I read someone complaining about AAP being “watered down” for the “truly gifted” child I roll my eyes. I child with a wisc IQ of 137 is actually not that different from a child with an IQ in the above average range. A kid who has been heavily prepped in math so that he tests 3 years ahead on standardized tests isn’t that different from a kid with an above average IQ.

The midwestern town I’m from has a self contained classroom for kids with math and reading (both. Not just one domain. And an IQ above 140) scores above the 99.8th percentile. Very few of your kids would make the cut.

I agree that very few AAP kids would make the cut for your town's program. But, there really isn't much of a difference between a WISC 137 and a WISC 140. It's like one question and a difference between 99.5th and 99.7th percentile.

Right. I agree with you. If you had a kid who missed the cutoff by 3 points you might be pretty upset, understandably. Is the 137 kid incapable of holding his own in my town’s program? Probably not. It’s a great, individualized program. Many kids with lower IQs would do well. There is no criteria that will make everyone happy.

My town’s program is for serving the “exceptionally gifted”. It’s in the program’s title.

AAP is a different ball of wax. I think it benefits more students by serving more students. I agree that if you have a kid who needs more than AAP the onus is on you not the public school. But most of it is just idle hand wringing. Between AAP and the Aops academy and CTY summer camp you’ve signed junior up for your kid is going to be fine.

[Anonymous]

when are we going to discuss the average level of FCPS students not in AAP? My guess is that level of academic achievement has gone down significantly widening the gap from the most gifted to the least gifted student

The current system exaggerates what usually starts as a minute difference between students. It doesn't end well. The family van ends up with 1 UVA sticker and a Radford sticker, or other dissimilar pairing. If I saw this only occasionally I would be thinking, yes parents should be proud of each of their children, but this is a very common dichotomy.

[Anonymous]

Has AAP become less rigorous over the last 15 years, or is it about the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

when are we going to discuss the average level of FCPS students not in AAP? My guess is that level of academic achievement has gone down significantly widening the gap from the most gifted to the least gifted student

The current system exaggerates what usually starts as a minute difference between students. It doesn't end well. The family van ends up with 1 UVA sticker and a Radford sticker, or other dissimilar pairing. If I saw this only occasionally I would be thinking, yes parents should be proud of each of their children, but this is a very common dichotomy.

not sure what you're trying to say, but in my neighborhood alone two Gen Ed. kids got into U.Va. an d at least 3 are going to JMU. I think some kids are just precocious at 7 and once you're inAAP you're in there until 8th, whether you live up to the potential the admission committee saw or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP doesn’t even require an IQ test to get in.

I don’t think FCPS has the resources to give an individual IQ test to every student just to see who qualifies for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

AAP is a different ball of wax. I think it benefits more students by serving more students.

I guess that's the real question. Does it truly benefit the bottom half of the kids in AAP, or would the same level of education be available at their base schools through flexible grouping? Many kids who were accepted into AAP from my base school were well served in 2nd grade through the flexible reading groups and math differentiation. If they were well served in 2nd grade with that model, it stands to reason that they would likewise be well served in 3rd.

If the bottom half of the AAP kids are receiving a decent benefit from being in AAP centers rather than at the base school, then what is wrong with the base school? Schools out to be able to challenge kids just fine when the kids are only about 1 year above grade level and have IQs in the 120s. It's fine to expand services to more kids when there's a net benefit to all. It's not great when the only benefit seems to be appeasing parents who want the status and want an education that they perceive to be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While looking for something else, I came across this article from 1990. It describes the Fairfax G/T program as 20% of students.

https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1990122800

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While looking for something else, I came across this article from 1990. It describes the Fairfax G/T program as 20% of students.

https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1990122800

Interesting.

Did they drastically reduce the numbers after that? This report shows 6% in AAP in 2000 on pg 18. https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/92UNAX5CE5A8/$file/AAP%20Expansion%20Plan%20Final_2_PPT.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have read on here and in the past seen a link showing the State of Virginia reviewed and approves FCPS's AAP program as meeting the "Mandate" of the state's gifted education law. So Virginia thinks they're in compliance, but I understand you don't.

Have they observed actual AAP classrooms, witnessed how not-overly-smart many of the kids are, how the curriculum is barely more advanced than gen ed, and how bored out of their minds the gifted kids are?

Look, I know these debates never go well, because 90% of the people here have garden variety bright kids who would be well served in gen ed, but no one wants to admit it. Most of us heavily criticizing the program have one of those garden variety bright kids in AAP, and one kid who is just leagues beyond the bright child. My bright child, all of her AAP friends, and many of her AAP classmates would be fine in a strong gen ed program, and they absolutely are slowing things down for kids like my highly gifted child. AAP teachers still have to worry about bringing up the bottom kids, passing SOLs, and all of the other things that divert attention away from the top kids in the class, and the more bright kids they have to deal with, the less attention the gifted kids will receive.

AAP cannot adequately serve the needs of both the highly gifted children and the regular bright kids. There are many more bright kids and many more parents of bright kids, so FCPS has chosen to appease the masses. As a parent with both a bright child and a gifted child in AAP, I'd give up AAP for my bright child in a heartbeat if it meant that my gifted child would have a proper gifted program.

Your highly gifted kid is being taught in a class with the top 20 percent instead of with everyone. I'd say that's enough of an accommodation. If you want more then get a tutor. I'm not sure why you think it's not ok for your child to be educated with kids in the top two percent, but think that a kid in the top twenty percent would do just fine being with kids in the bottom ten percent. The sense of entitlement is ridiculous. Supplement at home or pay someone if you want more. FCPS has clearly decided to meet the needs of more kids rather than catering only to a tiny number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS G/T served gifted kids quite well. There’s no reason that they needed to expand the program from 5% to 20%. Many smaller metro regions have dedicated gifted programming that requires a 99th percentile score. FCPS certainly could do the same.

FCPS could decide that, but they didn't. It's been like this for a while, why would you stay rather than moving to a school district that requires a 99 percentile score. FCPS has decided to use tax dollars to meet the needs of advanced kids so more kids benefit. If you don't agree with those decisions, find a system that better meets your expectations.