Harvard + other ivy schools

[Anonymous]

I didn't go to Harvard or any other Ivy (Seven Sister alum here). But I don't find it that hard to believe people when they say "Harvard changed my life." Before I received mailing material from my college, I had just accepted that I'd be going to my state university because I didn't realize I could do better. It didn't even enter into my parents' minds that I could do better or should try. This was pre Internet by the way. I ended up getting a scholarship to attend the Seven Sisters school and was introduced to a whole new world of privilege, ambition, and social connection that I never knew existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to Harvard or any other Ivy (Seven Sister alum here). But I don't find it that hard to believe people when they say "Harvard changed my life." Before I received mailing material from my college, I had just accepted that I'd be going to my state university because I didn't realize I could do better. It didn't even enter into my parents' minds that I could do better or should try. This was pre Internet by the way. I ended up getting a scholarship to attend the Seven Sisters school and was introduced to a whole new world of privilege, ambition, and social connection that I never knew existed.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

You’ve missed the point completely. Your question should be directed at the poster to whom I was responding. Are she or her husband running a company, private equity firm or in IB? Because none of the many many Harvard grads in DC who I know are, whether they’re in the law business or not. Somehow I doubt that she is running around more rarified social circles than I am.

No, you missed the point completely. And I can’t tell if it’s because you have a giant chip on your shoulder about not having gone to an Ivy or if it’s because you have an extremely stunted view of what education has to offer people. Maybe both.

Ha ha looks like I struck a nerve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to Harvard or any other Ivy (Seven Sister alum here). But I don't find it that hard to believe people when they say "Harvard changed my life." Before I received mailing material from my college, I had just accepted that I'd be going to my state university because I didn't realize I could do better. It didn't even enter into my parents' minds that I could do better or should try. This was pre Internet by the way. I ended up getting a scholarship to attend the Seven Sisters school and was introduced to a whole new world of privilege, ambition, and social connection that I never knew existed.

Exactly!

Seven sisters? Try dime a dozen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

You’ve missed the point completely. Your question should be directed at the poster to whom I was responding. Are she or her husband running a company, private equity firm or in IB? Because none of the many many Harvard grads in DC who I know are, whether they’re in the law business or not. Somehow I doubt that she is running around more rarified social circles than I am.

No, you missed the point completely. And I can’t tell if it’s because you have a giant chip on your shoulder about not having gone to an Ivy or if it’s because you have an extremely stunted view of what education has to offer people. Maybe both.

Ha ha looks like I struck a nerve.

Your own, perhaps. Stop running around in circles, no matter how rarefied. No one’s interested in where you went to school or how much money you make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has graduates who often do very well in power and prestige circles but that is most likely due to their family wealth and connections. It is probably not that closely connected to the education these students are receiving at Harvard.
Harvard knows this and that is partly why they take such a large number of legacies and famous students.

Isn't being exposed to/making connections with those in "power and prestige circles" supposedly part of the attraction of a Harvard education? If Harvard only admitted kids from blue collar/non-college educated families, would Harvard lose some of it's "prestige" over time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has graduates who often do very well in power and prestige circles but that is most likely due to their family wealth and connections. It is probably not that closely connected to the education these students are receiving at Harvard.
Harvard knows this and that is partly why they take such a large number of legacies and famous students.

Isn't being exposed to/making connections with those in "power and prestige circles" supposedly part of the attraction of a Harvard education? If Harvard only admitted kids from blue collar/non-college educated families, would Harvard lose some of it's "prestige" over time?

People believe those connections will happen however the reality is that kids tend to congregate like to like. Int'l wealth, private school, 1st gens have their own circles. May be UMC kids can cross over during college. They're the ones being squeezed out though. It's crossed my mind that today's admission focus could be deleting the glue that holds the stratifications together.