Harvard + other ivy schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

[Anonymous]

A high school acquaintance who I haven’t seen in decades recently argued on Facebook that he was disadvantaged because one of his grandparents was “straight off the boat” from Italy. Sounds like the “night school” poster here. Lol

[Anonymous]

I am a successful attorney who despite my non-ivy undergrad and law school made it. I am the son of an immigrant and came to this country when I was 6. My parents knew nothing of the college admission process. I know have high school-aged kids.

I can tell you affirmative action and legacy are garbage. It is discriminatory towards other qualified applicants because their ancestors were either slaves or slave owners.

As to legacy specifically, in employment and housing law there is a theory called disparate impact. This means that if an otherwise neutral policy has a discriminatory impact, it can be challenged.

Colleges need to be held accountable to see if legacies are having a disparate impact on minorities, particularly Asian-Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a successful attorney who despite my non-ivy undergrad and law school made it. I am the son of an immigrant and came to this country when I was 6. My parents knew nothing of the college admission process. I know have high school-aged kids.

I can tell you affirmative action and legacy are garbage. It is discriminatory towards other qualified applicants because their ancestors were either slaves or slave owners.

As to legacy specifically, in employment and housing law there is a theory called disparate impact. This means that if an otherwise neutral policy has a discriminatory impact, it can be challenged.

Colleges need to be held accountable to see if legacies are having a disparate impact on minorities, particularly Asian-Americans.

Anything can be challenged, but to prevail you’d have to prove the disparate impact on a legally protected minority group. Not likely to prevail here, because on the whole legally protected minority groups get even bigger admissions boosts from elite colleges than legacies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:actually no, being as I am an alum and my husband is as well (same school), I am hoping my kids get extra points for legacy admissions

I am too. You do know you have to give high six figures or low seven for legacy to actually count for anything? We didn't give that amount and DS didn't get in (but had all the stats).

Of course I know that. At this point, we are prepared to give 2-3M.

Your child must be very average for you to have to do that. Perhaps they would be a better fit an an average college.

He's 8. It's difficult to say whether he is average or not at this point.

Why are you posting on a college board then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:actually no, being as I am an alum and my husband is as well (same school), I am hoping my kids get extra points for legacy admissions

I am too. You do know you have to give high six figures or low seven for legacy to actually count for anything? We didn't give that amount and DS didn't get in (but had all the stats).

Of course I know that. At this point, we are prepared to give 2-3M.

Your child must be very average for you to have to do that. Perhaps they would be a better fit an an average college.

He's 8. It's difficult to say whether he is average or not at this point.

Why are you posting on a college board then?

I click on recent topics and post in threads that are interesting to me. I don't go to individual boards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-I vy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

Never claimed to be disadvantaged. I wrote as a poster who did not, herself, benefit from legacy preference at Harvard but whose kid is a double legacy. And explained how that left me ambivalent about whether there should be such a preference.

And, yeah, I realize I live in an area where lots of my neighbors have Ivy League degrees — that’s an example of what I meant by Harvard being a life-changing experience. (I didn’t say it was all for the good, LOL!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

I think it is unlikely that Harvard was life changing for you. You and your husband probably have some different personality characteristics from your siblings that made you more successful. You probably would have done just as well graduating from a selection of colleges.. Siblings are not exactly the same you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

You’ve missed the point completely. Your question should be directed at the poster to whom I was responding. Are she or her husband running a company, private equity firm or in IB? Because none of the many many Harvard grads in DC who I know are, whether they’re in the law business or not. Somehow I doubt that she is running around more rarified social circles than I am.

[Anonymous]

Harvard has graduates who often do very well in power and prestige circles but that is most likely due to their family wealth and connections. It is probably not that closely connected to the education these students are receiving at Harvard.
Harvard knows this and that is partly why they take such a large number of legacies and famous students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

You’ve missed the point completely. Your question should be directed at the poster to whom I was responding. Are she or her husband running a company, private equity firm or in IB? Because none of the many many Harvard grads in DC who I know are, whether they’re in the law business or not. Somehow I doubt that she is running around more rarified social circles than I am.

Law partners are renting space in those circle by PPP. Some law partners are permanent members of the circle based on outside law firm income/assets. That is what is was saying. The jobs that give you and your decedents life time membership in the circle are generally given to people that go to elite schools. Its like the legacy preferences at elite schools (state like UVA and private like Harvard-some 46 or so elite schools) its always been there but people outside did not focus. So are you really equal with everyone in your rarefied circle? You may not notice until people put the full weight of their social and wealth resources behind their kids applying to college and jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a successful attorney who despite my non-ivy undergrad and law school made it. I am the son of an immigrant and came to this country when I was 6. My parents knew nothing of the college admission process. I know have high school-aged kids.

I can tell you affirmative action and legacy are garbage. It is discriminatory towards other qualified applicants because their ancestors were either slaves or slave owners.

As to legacy specifically, in employment and housing law there is a theory called disparate impact. This means that if an otherwise neutral policy has a discriminatory impact, it can be challenged.

Colleges need to be held accountable to see if legacies are having a disparate impact on minorities, particularly Asian-Americans.

Disparate impact on an over-represented minority? Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is unlikely that Harvard was life changing for you. You and your husband probably have some different personality characteristics from your siblings that made you more successful. You probably would have done just as well graduating from a selection of colleges.. Siblings are not exactly the same you know.

You have zero basis for saying that since you don’t know me, my husband, or any of our sibs. You may believe it, in which case it’s an article of faith for you. But that doesn’t make it true. By contrast, I know, because I experienced it, that Harvard changed my career aspirations and where I ended up living. I also know that I would have married someone different.

Re I would have “done just as well” going to college elsewhere. By your metric (which I’m guessing is income/job title/neighborhood), I might well have done better. But that’s not how I evaluate or characterize my life.

FWIW, I’ll also point out that I said (from the beginning) that Harvard would not be life-changing for my kid. DC already has knowledge of and access to a world that was alien to me at DC’s age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both Harvard grads (public school kids, first in the family in each case). Our DC thought legacy advantage was appalling and no wanted part of it. Got into a peer institution EA, so we never had to sort out our feelings about it.

I’m ambivalent about it. OTOH, I was first gen in my family to go to college FT (vs PT night school, while also working). So it feels kinda effed up that legacy becomes problematic just when the alumns with kids who might benefit from it stop being from “elite” families. OTOH, Harvard was life-changing for DH and I in a way it wouldn’t have been for DC, who grew up within those changed lives. So I certainly get the “give this kind of transformative experience to someone who needs it more than your already privileged kid” logic.

Meanwhile, tuition has gotten so ridiculously expensive that, even without legacy, rich kids will continue to be grossly over represented at these schools.

How do you know it was Harvard that was “life-changing”. You came from a family where you were first generation college. Virtually any decent college under those circumstances would’ve been “life changing” for you.

Nope, we both have sibs who went to a range of decent through public Ivy colleges and both we and our DC have very different lives than they and they kids do. And FWIW, we were both first kids in family to go to Harvard, but our parents were college educated. His dad at a state flagship. My parents (who went to college PT at night) gotten decent educations at what I think are now called directional schools — BA in Dad’s case. MA in Mom’s.

Ah ok. I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. Your and DH’s parents all DID have college degrees - night school and MAs count, you see - so you’re not first generation disadvantaged anything. Also, the anecdotal experience of you and your siblings proves nothing.

Case in point: me. My parents didn’t graduate high school and were truly working class. I went to a no-name college and non-Ivy League law school (not even that close, honestly) and ended up making partner and millions of dollars at a firm where the large majority of my colleagues were Ivy League (Harvard being most common) educated and I and my kids live “very different” lives from my siblings and their cousins as a result. But our lives aren’t different from the literally hundreds of Ivy League grads who I know. Same neighborhoods, same public/private elementary and high schools, same vacation destinations, same friends, same incomes, same connections, etc etc etc. You realize that in DC the Ivy League is a dime a dozen, right?

You seem very proud and rather exceptional. Did it ever occur to you that you might be running a company, private equity firm or in IB? That is the kind transformative wealth you could have acquired at Harvard. Are you sure that you are equal with your partners and neighbors from Harvard?? How many have other sources of wealth or income??Law partners are highly paid service providers that rarely have enough money to transformatively improve generations of a family. Have you really made it or can you just spend enough of your income to temporarily keep up? Only you know the answer but this division is painfully obvious in my law firm and DC area neighborhood.

You’ve missed the point completely. Your question should be directed at the poster to whom I was responding. Are she or her husband running a company, private equity firm or in IB? Because none of the many many Harvard grads in DC who I know are, whether they’re in the law business or not. Somehow I doubt that she is running around more rarified social circles than I am.

No, you missed the point completely. And I can’t tell if it’s because you have a giant chip on your shoulder about not having gone to an Ivy or if it’s because you have an extremely stunted view of what education has to offer people. Maybe both.