Graduation HS Senior wants to go to Europe with friends

[Anonymous]

I would say no. I agree with after college and on her own dime. I say that as someone who spent the summer after high school traveling through South East Asia with a friend. The ownership and responsibility you get from paying for it yourself with money you have earned through sweat and hours at a job shapes how you will spend it.

For me, I took traveling seriously as it was a ton of money at that age. I was thoughtful and responsible and make good choices.

A teen in Europe with no financial ties, no responsibilities, and eight friends is a recipe for disaster. I also just don't think a 17 year old needs a free summer in Europe unless social status and keeping up with the rich is your main focus in life and you need to be able to throw around your Europe trips.

[Anonymous]

Another No and by the way, most of those other kids parents will also be a no so don’t worry about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In lived Spain and Italy and was aggressively groped when out in public, especially in Italy. Not sure why people think Europe is so safe. I absolutely felt like I could have been EASILY raped if I had been stumbling around drunk. I felt much much safer back in the states than southern Europe. I'm wondering how many of you have your heads up your asses. The treatment of women is despicable.

I loved Europe, but safe as a young woman? No. I would not want my 17yr old daughter getting herself white girl wasted all over Europe. Your daughter sounds terribly immature.

Glad to see someone saying this. It's true. Look up "street harassment" by country name, OP. Some legislators in Europe are trying to combat the cultural idea that street harassment is harmless but it's an uphill battle right now. YES, there is street harassment in the US, but PP probably can testify that it's much more open, aggressive and intimidating in some other countries. PP is right about how drinking would really flag a tourist teenager for worse than harassment. PPs will keep coming back to say the daughter should learn to deal, etc., but I'd take this PP's real life experience over "let her go because she's about to start college" posts.

[Anonymous]

Not a chance.

[Anonymous]

I’d let her go. Kids today are way over sheltered.

[Anonymous]

I say yes, but without the fake ID part.

My daughter traveled in Europe with a friend after graduating HS. She had an amazing and fun experience and firmly believes that that independent experience really prepared her for being away at college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d let her go. Kids today are way over sheltered.

Yes and the only cure for that is a pricey unchaperoned European trip.



How about a job for little pookie?

[Anonymous]

The girls I knew who got to do this in the 90s were rich girl promiscuous sluts who had "cool moms."

Unchaperoned Europe is for after college begins and/or once they'd had some real independence. The "what's the big deal, college begins in two months" crowd can shove it. College is a controlled environment with police, residential staff, deans and peers who were filtered by admissions department.

[Anonymous]

OP Here. The question sorted itself out without us having to make a difficult decision. DD's BFF decided she wasn't going (or her parents said no) and DD didn't want to go without her. I suggested that she could invite some friends and spend a week or so at our vacation house in Park City. Much more controlled environment where we've got lots of friends and support should they need it.

As to the fake, I misunderstood her intentions. I assumed that the fake was for the Euro trip since both came up around the same time. The real reason is that she's feeling a little insecure about being 17 for the first half of her freshman year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The girls I knew who got to do this in the 90s were rich girl promiscuous sluts who had "cool moms."

Unchaperoned Europe is for after college begins and/or once they'd had some real independence. The "what's the big deal, college begins in two months" crowd can shove it. College is a controlled environment with police, residential staff, deans and peers who were filtered by admissions department.

So you're afraid your daughter will spread her legs in Europe, but the police and residential staff will somehow keep that from happening in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As to the fake, I misunderstood her intentions. I assumed that the fake was for the Euro trip since both came up around the same time. The real reason is that she's feeling a little insecure about being 17 for the first half of her freshman year.

I was 17 for the first half of my freshman year. It didn't make any difference that I ever noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As to the fake, I misunderstood her intentions. I assumed that the fake was for the Euro trip since both came up around the same time. The real reason is that she's feeling a little insecure about being 17 for the first half of her freshman year.

I was 17 for the first half of my freshman year. It didn't make any difference that I ever noticed.

PP, the fact that the DD thought having a fake ID would make her feel better about being 17 and a senior translates like this: DD has friends who as seniors will be old enough to buy alcohol.

OP, that's your red flag. DD expects her friends will be drinking senior year and she doesn't want to be left out. In your shoes I'd be thinking about why her friends are interested enough in drinking that my DD was concerned she would feel odd or left out if she too couldn't get into bars or buy alcohol. And I'd be ensuring that senior year was so busy that she didn't have time for those particular friends.

Where do you think she got the fake ID idea? Those friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only you can say how mature or not she is. If you do send her, make sure she carries notarized permission to travel solo. Our bus from France to Italy last year was delayed because the driver asked this of a French teenager traveling alone.

There may be other logistical issues for under 18’s:

- My son is younger, but when we sent him to the UK on his own for summer camp at 12yo, I contacted the currency exchange vendor at Heathrow and they said it would be at the discretion of the manager that day as to whether or not they would change money for a minor; we obtained pounds ahead of time to avoid trouble. My son was able to use a credit card, but probably shouldnt have been allowed, as they are illegal for anyone under 18 to use in the UK (minors are technically not allowed to sign any kind of promissory note).

- Set clear expectations of how often you expect her to check in with you. My son was scared of running up a huge overseas data bill, so he turned off cellular service, making it impossible to track him or communicate with him while he was in transit.

- Also, a group of barely 18yo girls will most likely not be allowed to rent a car: I’d have a hard no-hitchhiking rule. Uber may/may not work in their destination countries. Find out ahead of time and make sure her account works, if you’re ok with her using it.

New poster here. We travel in Europe frequently with our teen and have friends there (locals) who have teens. OP, please heed the excellent post above and the points about travel.

This post also raises a good point: Do the girls plan to rent cars? They won't find vehicles big enough for so many; car rental is much more expensive there than here; and many rentals (at least, in the UK) are manual transmission. Can they drive a stick shift confidently, if all that a rental firm has in stock that day is a manual?

Say they're not planning to rent cars, but--what if there's an emergency and they need to?

And they can take trains, which are great, but the likelihood of getting seven or eight seats on the same train can be dicey during certain times. Do they know to check whether they're traveling on a local holiday when trains are sold out in advance? Are they OK with standing up to ride the train? Because that does happen. For hours. I can't picture a group this size NOT ending up arguing about logistics and costs of schlepping around. Two or three people? Sure. Seven or eight? They won't end up sticking together.

All this to say--a hard no. My own DD has traveled a lot and I would say no to this setup your DD describes.

So you are a hard no because they will have to rely on mass transportation, may not be able to get on the same trains sometimes, and might argue during the trip?

Seriously?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only you can say how mature or not she is. If you do send her, make sure she carries notarized permission to travel solo. Our bus from France to Italy last year was delayed because the driver asked this of a French teenager traveling alone.

There may be other logistical issues for under 18’s:

- My son is younger, but when we sent him to the UK on his own for summer camp at 12yo, I contacted the currency exchange vendor at Heathrow and they said it would be at the discretion of the manager that day as to whether or not they would change money for a minor; we obtained pounds ahead of time to avoid trouble. My son was able to use a credit card, but probably shouldnt have been allowed, as they are illegal for anyone under 18 to use in the UK (minors are technically not allowed to sign any kind of promissory note).

- Set clear expectations of how often you expect her to check in with you. My son was scared of running up a huge overseas data bill, so he turned off cellular service, making it impossible to track him or communicate with him while he was in transit.

- Also, a group of barely 18yo girls will most likely not be allowed to rent a car: I’d have a hard no-hitchhiking rule. Uber may/may not work in their destination countries. Find out ahead of time and make sure her account works, if you’re ok with her using it.

New poster here. We travel in Europe frequently with our teen and have friends there (locals) who have teens. OP, please heed the excellent post above and the points about travel.

This post also raises a good point: Do the girls plan to rent cars? They won't find vehicles big enough for so many; car rental is much more expensive there than here; and many rentals (at least, in the UK) are manual transmission. Can they drive a stick shift confidently, if all that a rental firm has in stock that day is a manual?

Say they're not planning to rent cars, but--what if there's an emergency and they need to?

And they can take trains, which are great, but the likelihood of getting seven or eight seats on the same train can be dicey during certain times. Do they know to check whether they're traveling on a local holiday when trains are sold out in advance? Are they OK with standing up to ride the train? Because that does happen. For hours. I can't picture a group this size NOT ending up arguing about logistics and costs of schlepping around. Two or three people? Sure. Seven or eight? They won't end up sticking together.

All this to say--a hard no. My own DD has traveled a lot and I would say no to this setup your DD describes.

So you are a hard no because they will have to rely on mass transportation, may not be able to get on the same trains sometimes, and might argue during the trip?

Seriously?

The hard no was not just because of transit. I also think the whole setup was asking for trouble with groups splintering off and for other reasons. Sorry it came out as seeming that transport alone was the reason. The post was mostly addressing ONE aspect of this trip, in response to another post that also raised the travel issues for such a group. But the proposed trip had problems on several levels including but not limited to naïveté about details of travel as the first PP was noting.
It's moot now as the DD isn't going....