Expectations for Future MS Differentiation EOTP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m one where if the charters were true alternative schools and not tainted by segregation and privilege maintenance I’d love to have my kids there seeing as they’re about to exit elementary school way ahead of their peers. But I’m trying to not just look out for me and mine. So I really feel conflicted.

How are charter schools tainted by segregation when DC's charter elementary schools are pretty much the only ones with a balanced diversity that doesn't reflect the city's segregation or the city's demographic imbalance?

When the city's student population is 15% white, your ward's student population is 5% white, and and your school's white percentage is above 30%, I'd start to explain what you mean when you say your school is 'diverse.'

Basically, if these schools weren't a route to separation of communities, I'd be less concerned. We don't live in 1910s Alabama but we could definitely do better at helping children of privilege and children of poor communities mingle and grow together into the country we want. But we separate ourselves and then get defensive about it.

The schools are a route to "separation of communities" partly, perhaps mainly, because DC public balks at tracking nearly enough in MS to attract good cohorts of children of privilege to all but half a dozen schools. By contrast, many other US cities support highly diverse middle schools offering 2, even 3 different levels of the main academic subjects. When most of our public middle schools don't offer above grade-level courses for any subject but math, or even at-grade-level subjects, they inadvertently promote segregation.

Without academic tracking across the board, white and upper middle-class parents become motivated to band together in neighborhoods and schools, as at Deal. Yes, we could better at helping children of various backgrounds mingle and grow together if politicians would support the creation of schools most parents would be happy to send their children to together. Well off and poor kids wouldn't necessarily be in most MS classes together in large numbers under this paradigm for practical reasons, but many more of them would at least attend school together. The kids would be in the same hallways, on the same playing fields, in the same performance spaces. To my mind, that arrangement would represent a vast improvement over the sweeping segregation we see now in city schools.

[Anonymous]

Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

Correct you know why most people in DC don't even have kids and the school system is over 75% black 60% FARMS and something like 40% at-risk, There is your reason you are talking about less than 5% of the total system that needs to be challenged more and probably less than 2% of the actual voting population.

[Anonymous]

Bowser is like the bureaucracy - it's not that great but there's no alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

Correct you know why most people in DC don't even have kids and the school system is over 75% black 60% FARMS and something like 40% at-risk, There is your reason you are talking about less than 5% of the total system that needs to be challenged more and probably less than 2% of the actual voting population.

True, but part of the problem is that the voters who do care aren't organizing even to vote out ANC commissioners and Ward council members who ignore their concerns about schools. I've observed this is my 25 years on Capitol Hill.

While it's true that other big US cities routinely offer test-in middle school programs, our pols effectively come under no pressure to support the creation of this standard option, mainly due to voter reticence. In DC, if you agitate for appropriate challenge for an advanced learner past elementary, you become the nail that sticks up getting hammered as the East Asian saying goes. Few are game to get hammered (called racist, elitist, advised to shut up or move to Fairfax, and a good deal worse). They'd much rather move, go private, supplement extensively at home or whatever. So little changes.

[Anonymous]

There are SBOE elections coming up, including Ward 4. How many of you are even going to vote?

I know they don't hold much direct power now, but it's a start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are SBOE elections coming up, including Ward 4. How many of you are even going to vote?

I know they don't hold much direct power now, but it's a start.

SBOE members are on the ballot in November in Wards 1, 3, 5 and 6. Not Ward 4.

https://www.dcboe.org/getattachment/Elections/2018-Elections-(2)/List-of-Candidates-in-the-November-6-2018-Election-9-14-2018-(1).pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are SBOE elections coming up, including Ward 4. How many of you are even going to vote?

I know they don't hold much direct power now, but it's a start.

SBOE members are on the ballot in November in Wards 1, 3, 5 and 6. Not Ward 4.

https://www.dcboe.org/getattachment/Elections/2018-Elections-(2)/List-of-Candidates-in-the-November-6-2018-Election-9-14-2018-(1).pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

Ward 4 is a special election December 4th. The previous member left, but after the deadline for it to be part of the general election.
https://www.dcboe.org/getattachment/Elections/2018-Elections-(3)/2018-SPECIAL-ELECTION_LIST-OF-CANDIDATES-WARD-4-SBOE.pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

Correct you know why most people in DC don't even have kids and the school system is over 75% black 60% FARMS and something like 40% at-risk, There is your reason you are talking about less than 5% of the total system that needs to be challenged more and probably less than 2% of the actual voting population.

True, but part of the problem is that the voters who do care aren't organizing even to vote out ANC commissioners and Ward council members who ignore their concerns about schools. I've observed this is my 25 years on Capitol Hill.

While it's true that other big US cities routinely offer test-in middle school programs, our pols effectively come under no pressure to support the creation of this standard option, mainly due to voter reticence. In DC, if you agitate for appropriate challenge for an advanced learner past elementary, you become the nail that sticks up getting hammered as the East Asian saying goes. Few are game to get hammered (called racist, elitist, advised to shut up or move to Fairfax, and a good deal worse). They'd much rather move, go private, supplement extensively at home or whatever. So little changes.

I'm going to switch and push just a bit here

The Whole Wilson Pyramid wasn't created overnight it took a lot of work

Capitol Hill has plenty of good elementary schools now

Stuart Hobson is getting close to be an adequate middle school option

For high school there are a couple different test in schools that fit the bill

I don't blame Hill Parents choosing Latin/Basis over SH but there is enough of a cohort now to make it work if people would just stay at SH. Eastern is a long way from being a Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

Correct you know why most people in DC don't even have kids and the school system is over 75% black 60% FARMS and something like 40% at-risk, There is your reason you are talking about less than 5% of the total system that needs to be challenged more and probably less than 2% of the actual voting population.

True, but part of the problem is that the voters who do care aren't organizing even to vote out ANC commissioners and Ward council members who ignore their concerns about schools. I've observed this is my 25 years on Capitol Hill.

While it's true that other big US cities routinely offer test-in middle school programs, our pols effectively come under no pressure to support the creation of this standard option, mainly due to voter reticence. In DC, if you agitate for appropriate challenge for an advanced learner past elementary, you become the nail that sticks up getting hammered as the East Asian saying goes. Few are game to get hammered (called racist, elitist, advised to shut up or move to Fairfax, and a good deal worse). They'd much rather move, go private, supplement extensively at home or whatever. So little changes.

I'm going to switch and push just a bit here

The Whole Wilson Pyramid wasn't created overnight it took a lot of work

Capitol Hill has plenty of good elementary schools now

Stuart Hobson is getting close to be an adequate middle school option

For high school there are a couple different test in schools that fit the bill

I don't blame Hill Parents choosing Latin/Basis over SH but there is enough of a cohort now to make it work if people would just stay at SH. Eastern is a long way from being a Wilson.

Not everyone can go to SWW. And white Hill parents won't send their kids to any other of the application schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m one where if the charters were true alternative schools and not tainted by segregation and privilege maintenance I’d love to have my kids there seeing as they’re about to exit elementary school way ahead of their peers. But I’m trying to not just look out for me and mine. So I really feel conflicted.

How are charter schools tainted by segregation when DC's charter elementary schools are pretty much the only ones with a balanced diversity that doesn't reflect the city's segregation or the city's demographic imbalance?

When the city's student population is 15% white, your ward's student population is 5% white, and and your school's white percentage is above 30%, I'd start to explain what you mean when you say your school is 'diverse.'

Basically, if these schools weren't a route to separation of communities, I'd be less concerned. We don't live in 1910s Alabama but we could definitely do better at helping children of privilege and children of poor communities mingle and grow together into the country we want. But we separate ourselves and then get defensive about it.

The schools are a route to "separation of communities" partly, perhaps mainly, because DC public balks at tracking nearly enough in MS to attract good cohorts of children of privilege to all but half a dozen schools. By contrast, many other US cities support highly diverse middle schools offering 2, even 3 different levels of the main academic subjects. When most of our public middle schools don't offer above grade-level courses for any subject but math, or even at-grade-level subjects, they inadvertently promote segregation.

Without academic tracking across the board, white and upper middle-class parents become motivated to band together in neighborhoods and schools, as at Deal. Yes, we could better at helping children of various backgrounds mingle and grow together if politicians would support the creation of schools most parents would be happy to send their children to together. Well off and poor kids wouldn't necessarily be in most MS classes together in large numbers under this paradigm for practical reasons, but many more of them would at least attend school together. The kids would be in the same hallways, on the same playing fields, in the same performance spaces. To my mind, that arrangement would represent a vast improvement over the sweeping segregation we see now in city schools.

Agreed! But middle class African-American parents fled DCPS decades ago. So it’s not a racial issue like most believe. Highly educated parents won’t allow their kid’s education to suffer when they don’t have to. There are many AA families that will only consider private schools. DCPS needs incentives to bring those families back. Pressure by parents is the only way they get results!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m one where if the charters were true alternative schools and not tainted by segregation and privilege maintenance I’d love to have my kids there seeing as they’re about to exit elementary school way ahead of their peers. But I’m trying to not just look out for me and mine. So I really feel conflicted.

How are charter schools tainted by segregation when DC's charter elementary schools are pretty much the only ones with a balanced diversity that doesn't reflect the city's segregation or the city's demographic imbalance?

When the city's student population is 15% white, your ward's student population is 5% white, and and your school's white percentage is above 30%, I'd start to explain what you mean when you say your school is 'diverse.'

Basically, if these schools weren't a route to separation of communities, I'd be less concerned. We don't live in 1910s Alabama but we could definitely do better at helping children of privilege and children of poor communities mingle and grow together into the country we want. But we separate ourselves and then get defensive about it.

The schools are a route to "separation of communities" partly, perhaps mainly, because DC public balks at tracking nearly enough in MS to attract good cohorts of children of privilege to all but half a dozen schools. By contrast, many other US cities support highly diverse middle schools offering 2, even 3 different levels of the main academic subjects. When most of our public middle schools don't offer above grade-level courses for any subject but math, or even at-grade-level subjects, they inadvertently promote segregation.

Without academic tracking across the board, white and upper middle-class parents become motivated to band together in neighborhoods and schools, as at Deal. Yes, we could better at helping children of various backgrounds mingle and grow together if politicians would support the creation of schools most parents would be happy to send their children to together. Well off and poor kids wouldn't necessarily be in most MS classes together in large numbers under this paradigm for practical reasons, but many more of them would at least attend school together. The kids would be in the same hallways, on the same playing fields, in the same performance spaces. To my mind, that arrangement would represent a vast improvement over the sweeping segregation we see now in city schools.

Agreed! But middle class African-American parents fled DCPS decades ago. So it’s not a racial issue like most believe. Highly educated parents won’t allow their kid’s education to suffer when they don’t have to. There are many AA families that will only consider private schools. DCPS needs incentives to bring those families back. Pressure by parents is the only way they get results!

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. As a white parent it has zero to do with race and everything to do with knowing that with so many kids that are below grade level, the teachers and administrators are busy focused on getting them to grade level. Unfortunately, that means no time or resources devoted to the kids above grade level. They are bored and disengaged and I don’t value diversity over my kid getting a good education. FWIW neither do my AA neighbors who thought I was nuts sending my kids to the local dcps elementary and all send their children to private. Let’s get some test in magnets in MS and ES, get rid of this “honors for all” bs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which DCPS middle school(s)are you considering? Stuart Hobson and Hardy offer a menu of "honors" classes pitched at grade level serving only around one quarter of their students. Sounds like your kids would be OK at either, generally challenged though not necessarily pushed.

If the DCPS MS you have your eye on is close to home, you could do what we do without punishing your kid, hire tutors to supplement in the afternoons and on weekends. We hire tutors and tutor the kid ourselves, 5-8 hours per week, to add rigor and personal attention rather than have the kid commute an hour and a half daily to reach a better school or go private (a real stretch for us financially).

I've never considered tutoring and have no idea what it's like. What's it like? You find someone on Craigslist? Do they come to your house? Do they teach individually or groups? Is it for math or language or what?

Many possibilities. We hire a cheerful, patient college student who's incredibly good at explaining math concepts for $25/ hour. We advertised FOR such a person on Craigslist and he found us. He comes to our house.

We also use a great on-line math tutoring service--the wonderful tutor is in India--for a $200/month subscription. We're about to form a writing tutoring group with two other 6th grade families, where everybody kicks in around $50 per week to pay a lovely tutor with a strong background in writing instruction. We spend around $150/week on tutoring, plus another $100 week on language, dance and music classes. $250/week to supplement 9 months of the year is chump change when compared to tuition to a pricey private school. Our commute to the local DCPS is 3 minutes, on foot. We could have switched to BASIS a few weeks into the school year but didn't like the way they weed middle school kids out and the over-the-top emphasis on grades, scores and testing.

You have options on tutoring if you have the dough, are resourceful about lining up good tutors, and offer your kid incentives to cooperate (e.g. cool vacations). We don't advertise the tutoring we pay for at the school, and will probably switch to a private for 8th grade +.

Makes so much sense. This is great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

This. As long as we have Grosso in charge of education in this city, we are in trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our bone-headed elected officials don't care if neighborhood middle schools don't offer nearly enough challenge to gentrifiers' kids. They don't get voted out for not caring.

Correct you know why most people in DC don't even have kids and the school system is over 75% black 60% FARMS and something like 40% at-risk, There is your reason you are talking about less than 5% of the total system that needs to be challenged more and probably less than 2% of the actual voting population.

True, but part of the problem is that the voters who do care aren't organizing even to vote out ANC commissioners and Ward council members who ignore their concerns about schools. I've observed this is my 25 years on Capitol Hill.

While it's true that other big US cities routinely offer test-in middle school programs, our pols effectively come under no pressure to support the creation of this standard option, mainly due to voter reticence. In DC, if you agitate for appropriate challenge for an advanced learner past elementary, you become the nail that sticks up getting hammered as the East Asian saying goes. Few are game to get hammered (called racist, elitist, advised to shut up or move to Fairfax, and a good deal worse). They'd much rather move, go private, supplement extensively at home or whatever. So little changes.

I'm going to switch and push just a bit here

The Whole Wilson Pyramid wasn't created overnight it took a lot of work

Capitol Hill has plenty of good elementary schools now

Stuart Hobson is getting close to be an adequate middle school option

For high school there are a couple different test in schools that fit the bill

I don't blame Hill Parents choosing Latin/Basis over SH but there is enough of a cohort now to make it work if people would just stay at SH. Eastern is a long way from being a Wilson.

Your definition of “adequate” is very different from mine.

39% ELA
18% Math

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Stuart-Hobson+Middle+School+(Capitol+Hill+Cluster)