best place for second opinion on ASD diagnosis?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it probably doesn’t matter, as a practical matter, if she has ASD or not. So I would wait to reassess until she’s a little older. You may never get a definitive answer or unanimous agreement. But some of the things you mention as counter-evidence, like being social and affectionate, are common in children with ASD, so you also may have a skewed sense of what the current diagnostic criteria are.

Of course a correct diagnosis matters. Nobody has unlimited time and money for therapies; so OP needs to focus on what is actually needed, which is informed by the diagnosis. Also, kids with ASD are not "social and affectionate' in the same way NT kids are. Social deficits are core ASD deficits. You can't get an ASD diagnosis without serious impairment in that area. So, if OP is observing that her child has similar social skills as her twin, then that's pretty important evidence to consider.

I’m not sure it does. Therapies are determined by the child’s needS. I have a kid with ASD and he is socially motivated and cuddly (or was—he’s a teen now). Deficits in pragmatics aren’t the same thing as not being social or wanting to connect. I find that people unfamiliar with ASD often expect ASD kids to be asocial and cold, but that isn’t what I see in my son or his friends, and I think OP’s description of her dad reflects an inaccurate perception of ASD.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

Oh her *dd*. I didn’t read it that she was saying her dad had the same level of social skills as the twin, only that she shows social motivation and makes some eye contact. Neither of these are inconsistent with ASD.

Fixed quotes:

Same with my kid. Very social and affectionate but poor pragmatic skills. Like OP, my kid was also a preemie. A followup assessment at 18 months found advanced cognitive and behavioral skills. Poor social pragmatic skills weren't apparent until about age 4.5.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

I'm sure you subjectively perceive your child as social and affectionate, but *differences* in social skills is a core aspect of ASD. That isn't to say that kids with ASD are feelingless automatons. They just have visible differences in how they interact socially. If OP is not seeing those differences, that's very important.

Yes, there are differences in social skills. But the issue of not being "social and affectionate" is just a false stereotype and a red herring that you are perpetrating. Stop it.

Kids with ASD just don't socialize and respond to others the same way NT kids do. This is a basic fact. It's not false - it's the defining feature of autism!

You did not understand my post!

+1 the PP seems to either not get or to willfully misunderstand the point several of us are making.

I actually don't understand the point you're making. what is it?

All ASD kids have social deficits, but the nature of the deficits covers a very broad range. Some are social. Some are loners. Some are affectionate. Some are not. So you can't say "My kid is 'social and affectionate' therefore he can't have ASD." It simply doesn't work that way. You have to compare ALL of a kid's social behaviors to a group of peers and look for abnormalities across the entire range of possible interactions.

Not relevant at all.

Could you be a little more specific?

This is not relevant to this topic of conversation.

For OP, the fact that her child is "sweet and affectionate" is not a reliable indicator for ASD. One PP encouraged that sort of thinking and several others responded to correct the information.

OP's bigger concern is that one inexperienced tester got results inconsistent with tests and observations of other professionals.

No - parents' understanding of their child's social function matters. If OP perceived her child as responding socially similarly to her twin or other kids, that's important information. ASD is not hidden - the kids have obvious differences.

Do you have any experience with ASD children or is your knowledge on what you have read on the internet or in books?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it probably doesn’t matter, as a practical matter, if she has ASD or not. So I would wait to reassess until she’s a little older. You may never get a definitive answer or unanimous agreement. But some of the things you mention as counter-evidence, like being social and affectionate, are common in children with ASD, so you also may have a skewed sense of what the current diagnostic criteria are.

Of course a correct diagnosis matters. Nobody has unlimited time and money for therapies; so OP needs to focus on what is actually needed, which is informed by the diagnosis. Also, kids with ASD are not "social and affectionate' in the same way NT kids are. Social deficits are core ASD deficits. You can't get an ASD diagnosis without serious impairment in that area. So, if OP is observing that her child has similar social skills as her twin, then that's pretty important evidence to consider.

I’m not sure it does. Therapies are determined by the child’s needS. I have a kid with ASD and he is socially motivated and cuddly (or was—he’s a teen now). Deficits in pragmatics aren’t the same thing as not being social or wanting to connect. I find that people unfamiliar with ASD often expect ASD kids to be asocial and cold, but that isn’t what I see in my son or his friends, and I think OP’s description of her dad reflects an inaccurate perception of ASD.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

Oh her *dd*. I didn’t read it that she was saying her dad had the same level of social skills as the twin, only that she shows social motivation and makes some eye contact. Neither of these are inconsistent with ASD.

Fixed quotes:

Same with my kid. Very social and affectionate but poor pragmatic skills. Like OP, my kid was also a preemie. A followup assessment at 18 months found advanced cognitive and behavioral skills. Poor social pragmatic skills weren't apparent until about age 4.5.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

I'm sure you subjectively perceive your child as social and affectionate, but *differences* in social skills is a core aspect of ASD. That isn't to say that kids with ASD are feelingless automatons. They just have visible differences in how they interact socially. If OP is not seeing those differences, that's very important.

Yes, there are differences in social skills. But the issue of not being "social and affectionate" is just a false stereotype and a red herring that you are perpetrating. Stop it.

Kids with ASD just don't socialize and respond to others the same way NT kids do. This is a basic fact. It's not false - it's the defining feature of autism!

You did not understand my post!

+1 the PP seems to either not get or to willfully misunderstand the point several of us are making.

I actually don't understand the point you're making. what is it?

All ASD kids have social deficits, but the nature of the deficits covers a very broad range. Some are social. Some are loners. Some are affectionate. Some are not. So you can't say "My kid is 'social and affectionate' therefore he can't have ASD." It simply doesn't work that way. You have to compare ALL of a kid's social behaviors to a group of peers and look for abnormalities across the entire range of possible interactions.

Not relevant at all.

Could you be a little more specific?

This is not relevant to this topic of conversation.

For OP, the fact that her child is "sweet and affectionate" is not a reliable indicator for ASD. One PP encouraged that sort of thinking and several others responded to correct the information.

OP's bigger concern is that one inexperienced tester got results inconsistent with tests and observations of other professionals.

No - parents' understanding of their child's social function matters. If OP perceived her child as responding socially similarly to her twin or other kids, that's important information. ASD is not hidden - the kids have obvious differences.

Do you have any experience with ASD children or is your knowledge on what you have read on the internet or in books?

I know several kids with ASD and have had mine assessed. Kids with ASD respond differently to social interactions across multiple contexts - that's the core symptom!! I'm not sure why you're denying that. I'm not saying kids with ASD are not interested in socializing or can't be affectionate. It just looks different.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it probably doesn’t matter, as a practical matter, if she has ASD or not. So I would wait to reassess until she’s a little older. You may never get a definitive answer or unanimous agreement. But some of the things you mention as counter-evidence, like being social and affectionate, are common in children with ASD, so you also may have a skewed sense of what the current diagnostic criteria are.

Of course a correct diagnosis matters. Nobody has unlimited time and money for therapies; so OP needs to focus on what is actually needed, which is informed by the diagnosis. Also, kids with ASD are not "social and affectionate' in the same way NT kids are. Social deficits are core ASD deficits. You can't get an ASD diagnosis without serious impairment in that area. So, if OP is observing that her child has similar social skills as her twin, then that's pretty important evidence to consider.

I’m not sure it does. Therapies are determined by the child’s needS. I have a kid with ASD and he is socially motivated and cuddly (or was—he’s a teen now). Deficits in pragmatics aren’t the same thing as not being social or wanting to connect. I find that people unfamiliar with ASD often expect ASD kids to be asocial and cold, but that isn’t what I see in my son or his friends, and I think OP’s description of her dad reflects an inaccurate perception of ASD.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

Oh her *dd*. I didn’t read it that she was saying her dad had the same level of social skills as the twin, only that she shows social motivation and makes some eye contact. Neither of these are inconsistent with ASD.

Fixed quotes:

Same with my kid. Very social and affectionate but poor pragmatic skills. Like OP, my kid was also a preemie. A followup assessment at 18 months found advanced cognitive and behavioral skills. Poor social pragmatic skills weren't apparent until about age 4.5.

And yes, ASD looks nothing like what I thought before we had our kid.

I'm sure you subjectively perceive your child as social and affectionate, but *differences* in social skills is a core aspect of ASD. That isn't to say that kids with ASD are feelingless automatons. They just have visible differences in how they interact socially. If OP is not seeing those differences, that's very important.

Yes, there are differences in social skills. But the issue of not being "social and affectionate" is just a false stereotype and a red herring that you are perpetrating. Stop it.

Kids with ASD just don't socialize and respond to others the same way NT kids do. This is a basic fact. It's not false - it's the defining feature of autism!

You did not understand my post!

+1 the PP seems to either not get or to willfully misunderstand the point several of us are making.

I actually don't understand the point you're making. what is it?

All ASD kids have social deficits, but the nature of the deficits covers a very broad range. Some are social. Some are loners. Some are affectionate. Some are not. So you can't say "My kid is 'social and affectionate' therefore he can't have ASD." It simply doesn't work that way. You have to compare ALL of a kid's social behaviors to a group of peers and look for abnormalities across the entire range of possible interactions.

Not relevant at all.

Could you be a little more specific?

This is not relevant to this topic of conversation.

For OP, the fact that her child is "sweet and affectionate" is not a reliable indicator for ASD. One PP encouraged that sort of thinking and several others responded to correct the information.

OP's bigger concern is that one inexperienced tester got results inconsistent with tests and observations of other professionals.

No - parents' understanding of their child's social function matters. If OP perceived her child as responding socially similarly to her twin or other kids, that's important information. ASD is not hidden - the kids have obvious differences.

Do you have any experience with ASD children or is your knowledge on what you have read on the internet or in books?

I know several kids with ASD and have had mine assessed. Kids with ASD respond differently to social interactions across multiple contexts - that's the core symptom!! I'm not sure why you're denying that. I'm not saying kids with ASD are not interested in socializing or can't be affectionate. It just looks different.

You did say that, and if that's not what you meant, you should have clarified that a long time ago.

I never denied that ASD kids have differences in social interactions and neither did any other PP. But you are incorrect that the differences are always "obvious." Well trained professionals sometimes get it wrong, especially when the kid has other diagnoses, as OP's kid has.

I never denied

[Anonymous]

The truth of the matter is that any child with a disability is going to struggle socially. Maybe they can't keep up physically or intellectually, maybe the other kids ostracize them solely because they are different and kids just aren't good with different.

But kids with autism struggle for a particular reason that is the core of the diagnosis : They can't read nonverbal cues and most have very poor joint attention skills.

[Anonymous]

^^ this is what I wrote originally: " kids with ASD are not "social and affectionate' in the same way NT kids are. Social deficits are core ASD deficits. You can't get an ASD diagnosis without serious impairment in that area. So, if OP is observing that her child has similar social skills as her twin, then that's pretty important evidence to consider."

ASD is not hidden: the social deficits are apparent! There would be something obviously different in social interactions; otherwise the child would never even be screened. Whether those differences are due to ASD or a different issue (language delay, hearing loss, anxiety, ADHD) is a different question.

[Anonymous]

Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ this is what I wrote originally: " kids with ASD are not "social and affectionate' in the same way NT kids are.

That way of stating it is confusing, and that's why several PPs reacted the way they did. My kid actually is social and affectionate. That's different than saying she has social deficits. She definitely does. But not in the way this implies. This implies they aren't as interested in being social or are not as affectionate. This is a sensitive area in the history of autism because many kids with serious social deficits were missed due to the exactly this stereotype, and continue to be missed. They are missed because people say, "My kid can do "X," so he can't be autistic."

. Social deficits are core ASD deficits. You can't get an ASD diagnosis without serious impairment in that area. So, if OP is observing that her child has similar social skills as her twin, then that's pretty important evidence to consider."

OP didn't actually say her kid has similar social skills as her twin. She just said she is sweet and affectionate and asks for her twin in the morning. My response previously was that she has to look at ALL social interactions and compare to a GROUP of children. "Sweet and affectionate" does not preclude autism. Differences in social skills or behavior between just two children does not imply autism.

ASD is not hidden: the social deficits are apparent! There would be something obviously different in social interactions; otherwise the child would never even be screened. Whether those differences are due to ASD or a different issue (language delay, hearing loss, anxiety, ADHD) is a different question.

What is causing the social deficits is the entire argument! Lots of kids have social deficits. Most don't have ASD, they have something else. Some have nothing, they are just quirky. Some kids with ASD learn to mask their deficits.

At age 2, my kid had no apparent social deficits. We had a screening around 18 months due to her being a preemie. No cognitive or behavioral problems were found, so even with a professional evaluation, nothing was obvious until much later. OP's child has language and developmental delays. That's going to confound things for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

And what is your experience with autistic kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

Yes, there is very mild. It was PDD-NOS, but now they changed it to ASD or social communication disorder. Some kids can be very mildly impacted (or wrongly diagnosed).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

Yes, there is very mild. It was PDD-NOS, but now they changed it to ASD or social communication disorder. Some kids can be very mildly impacted (or wrongly diagnosed).

PDD-NOS was not mild; it was atypical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

Yes, there is very mild. It was PDD-NOS, but now they changed it to ASD or social communication disorder. Some kids can be very mildly impacted (or wrongly diagnosed).

PDD-NOS was not mild; it was atypical.

It was considered very mild. It was not atypical. It was the we don't know what's wrong so we are going to label it and/PDD-NOS and send you to therapies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

And what is your experience with autistic kids?

I have a special needs child evaluated muliple times for autism. While he was never found to be autistic, his other issues have meant IEPs and some special education classes .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

And what is your experience with autistic kids?

I have a special needs child evaluated muliple times for autism. While he was never found to be autistic, his other issues have meant IEPs and some special education classes .

So you don't have any actual experience with autistic children. You just have a kid with something else and you can read the DSM, but somehow that tells something relevant about other people's children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need the what does ASD look like when it looks different for every child and its such a huge range given ASD encompasses everything from very mild concerns to someone who cannot speak or function without a caretaker.

There is nothing in the ASD criteria that is mild. It is only mild relative to the severe end of autism.

I know people don't want to believe this, but a quick look at severity levels spells this out.

And what is your experience with autistic kids?

I have a special needs child evaluated muliple times for autism. While he was never found to be autistic, his other issues have meant IEPs and some special education classes .

So you don't have any actual experience with autistic children. You just have a kid with something else and you can read the DSM, but somehow that tells something relevant about other people's children?

If ASD is so mild as to be undetectable by parents and the children are typically social and affectionate ... what's the issue needing treatment?