I think my U of Chicago bound DD just got off Brown's waiting list. Any debate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at Brown and loves it. My nephew just finished first year at Chicago and will be taking a year off and applying to transfer elsewhere -- he's a bright, intellectually curious and hard-working kid who has found Chicago to be filled with too many kids who are either self-consciously quirky or disgruntled b/c they didn't get into HYPS. He likes the Core, but feels many students are engaged in intellectual combat with profs who are bent on grade deflation.

He sounds lazy

Hmmm . . . "lazy" -- your presumption -- is the opposite of "hard-working" -- my description, based on fact. Try to read more carefully; you'll find it helpful!

Despite your description, he sounds like a kid that is really lazy. He's a kid that finds "intellectual combat" disagreeable. He dislikes "grade deflation." That a kid that just does enough to get by. He's checking boxes. He is intellectually lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at Brown and loves it. My nephew just finished first year at Chicago and will be taking a year off and applying to transfer elsewhere -- he's a bright, intellectually curious and hard-working kid who has found Chicago to be filled with too many kids who are either self-consciously quirky or disgruntled b/c they didn't get into HYPS. He likes the Core, but feels many students are engaged in intellectual combat with profs who are bent on grade deflation.

Yikes. This sounds like a really honest appraisal. But isn’t your nephew screwed trying to transfer with, I presume, a low gpa?

He should be fine. He's got a good GPA, actually, and has connected with three students from the class ahead who were all successful transfer applicants. We hope he'll switch to Brown, actually, which has a better applied math program than UofC.

Good for him! How did he meet three other older students that transferred out? Are there that many kids leaving Chicago for Ivies or back-home state colleges?

Chicago is challenging, but it has a freshman retention rate of 81%. National average is 71%. On the other hand, Harvard's retention rate is 98%. Once you get into Harvard, they are going to let you graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at Brown and loves it. My nephew just finished first year at Chicago and will be taking a year off and applying to transfer elsewhere -- he's a bright, intellectually curious and hard-working kid who has found Chicago to be filled with too many kids who are either self-consciously quirky or disgruntled b/c they didn't get into HYPS. He likes the Core, but feels many students are engaged in intellectual combat with profs who are bent on grade deflation.

Yikes. This sounds like a really honest appraisal. But isn’t your nephew screwed trying to transfer with, I presume, a low gpa?

He should be fine. He's got a good GPA, actually, and has connected with three students from the class ahead who were all successful transfer applicants. We hope he'll switch to Brown, actually, which has a better applied math program than UofC.

Good for him! How did he meet three other older students that transferred out? Are there that many kids leaving Chicago for Ivies or back-home state colleges?

Chicago is challenging, but it has a freshman retention rate of 81%. National average is 71%. On the other hand, Harvard's retention rate is 98%. Once you get into Harvard, they are going to let you graduate.

81% is UIC’s freshman retention rate. UChicago’s is much higher.

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2016/02/26/uchicago-has-highest-freshman-retention-rate-says-u-s-news/
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-illinois-at-chicago/academic-life/graduation-and-retention/

[Anonymous]

More recent data suggests freshmen retention rate is still 99% at UChicago

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/freshmen-least-most-likely-return

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brown, no question!!

Has Chicago gone up in esteem since the 90s? When I was at a big three they accepted anyone who applied from NCS and STA. No way would anyone have turned down Brown for Chicago.

Yup, 1990s was the nadir of the College’s rep among HS students. IIRC, there was even talk within UofC of shutting it down and just doing graduate education. Instead, they decided to invest in undergrad amenities (dorms, food, athletic facilities, arts center, career services) and those efforts, coupled with external factors (diversification of Ivy undergrads, renewed interest in cities, Obama) have really turned things around dramatically in a relatively short period of time (my BIL was there in the mid80s and can’t believe the difference).

[Anonymous]

Tell us what happened, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, as a parent I’ve been blown away by UChicago’s undergrad resources and intellectual environment. And I graduated from 2 HYPS, taught at another t15 and started my grad training at Cal, so this is not my first exposure to elite schools). I can’t imagine a better school for my DC at this point.

But your DC has to want it — Chicago will mean a lot more work and a lower GPA than Brown. It’s a real firing on all cylinders kind of environment. And by that I mean to there are so many different, exciting, challenging opportunities both in and outside the classroom and such a diverse collection of people that DC has to carve out downtime.

[Anonymous]

UC is ranked higher and IMHO has a far stronger academic reputation in most fields. That said, as some have suggested in a less kind way, Brown offers more of a "safe space" for those who don't want to be challenged in a non-academic sense.

[Anonymous]

If you offered every undergrad at Chicago an option to transfer to Brown at least a 1,000 would say yes. Vise versa? 5 if not zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, as a parent I’ve been blown away by UChicago’s undergrad resources and intellectual environment. And I graduated from 2 HYPS, taught at another t15 and started my grad training at Cal, so this is not my first exposure to elite schools). I can’t imagine a better school for my DC at this point.

But your DC has to want it — Chicago will mean a lot more work and a lower GPA than Brown. It’s a real firing on all cylinders kind of environment. And by that I mean to there are so many different, exciting, challenging opportunities both in and outside the classroom and such a diverse collection of people that DC has to carve out downtime.

Brown’s grading scale is A/B/C, no Ds, unlimited pass-fail courses (with failures left off the transcript), no required courses, and you can drop courses very late in the semester (with nearly 40% of the drops occurring in the last 2 week’s of class). Over 50% of the grades in most classes are As. This is a very different scenario from Chicago.

https://ripplematch.com/journal/article/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you offered every undergrad at Chicago an option to transfer to Brown at least a 1,000 would say yes. Vise versa? 5 if not zero.

100% of those who use "vise versa" instead of vice versa would choose Brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you offered every undergrad at Chicago an option to transfer to Brown at least a 1,000 would say yes. Vise versa? 5 if not zero.

Really? Chicago is ranked #3 between Harvard and Yale. Brown is ranked #14 between Northwestern and Cornell. That's a pretty big step down - comparable to Brown vs. UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at Brown and loves it. My nephew just finished first year at Chicago and will be taking a year off and applying to transfer elsewhere -- he's a bright, intellectually curious and hard-working kid who has found Chicago to be filled with too many kids who are either self-consciously quirky or disgruntled b/c they didn't get into HYPS. He likes the Core, but feels many students are engaged in intellectual combat with profs who are bent on grade deflation.

He sounds lazy

Hmmm . . . "lazy" -- your presumption -- is the opposite of "hard-working" -- my description, based on fact. Try to read more carefully; you'll find it helpful!

Despite your description, he sounds like a kid that is really lazy. He's a kid that finds "intellectual combat" disagreeable. He dislikes "grade deflation." That a kid that just does enough to get by. He's checking boxes. He is intellectually lazy.

I read PP's description, and the kid doesn't sound "really lazy." He just doesn't sound cut out for a school where a significant number of the students like to engage in an showy type of intellectual discourse or where professors cater to such students. Transferring is a great option for someone who realizes Chicago is a bad fit.

[Anonymous]

so.....the fun Ivy vs a miserable school for Ivy rejects? real tough call.

[Anonymous]

Brown has very attractive student body, also the wealthiest. I have it on good authority Chicago may have the least attractive student body in the top 20, and median income is super low for an elite. Where will you daughter far more like to meet an attractive, gregarious, wealthy future husband?