Rejected by Oyster for Pre-K4 Spanish dominant - what are our options?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We are at Oyster after moving inbounds at K. [b]No testing. /b]Lots of friends at the school whose kids speak Russian/German/French etc at home in addition to the expected Spanish speaking and monolingual households.

Sorry your kiddo didn’t pass the test, but we’ve enjoyed our time there. We lived in another area for ps/Pk and didn’t get into a language immersion so finally just made the move. Lots of friends whose younger siblings were at either private daycare or Reed/Bruce Monroe for first two years.

Good luck with the languages!

Do your children speak a language other than English at home, though? That's the testing that the PP was referencing--it assesses the child's fluency in English for ELL services, not for admission to the school. DCPS is supposed to be testing all children who speak a language other than English at home. The challenge that might arise would be if they test OP's child in K and find that he is not fluent in either Spanish or English. It sounds like the school does not provide services for English Language Learners who aren't Spanish-speaking, so he might then get moved to another school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

We've been advised at two DCPS schools (Title 1 and WOTP) not to check "no" on the HLS form to avoid testing for our kid who hears and (sometimes) speaks a second language at home but is completely proficient and English dominant. The testing should really not be an automatic consequence of answering the question truthfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

I knew a kid transfering from Walls to Wilson who checked other language on that form, and ended up in ELL classes, took a lot of stress to get schedule fixed, was shut out some AP classes by the time it was fixed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

We've been advised at two DCPS schools (Title 1 and WOTP) not to check "no" on the HLS form to avoid testing for our kid who hears and (sometimes) speaks a second language at home but is completely proficient and English dominant. The testing should really not be an automatic consequence of answering the question truthfully.

Oops, I meant to say "we have been advised to check 'no'", i.e. to lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We are at Oyster after moving inbounds at K. [b]No testing. /b]Lots of friends at the school whose kids speak Russian/German/French etc at home in addition to the expected Spanish speaking and monolingual households.

Sorry your kiddo didn’t pass the test, but we’ve enjoyed our time there. We lived in another area for ps/Pk and didn’t get into a language immersion so finally just made the move. Lots of friends whose younger siblings were at either private daycare or Reed/Bruce Monroe for first two years.

Good luck with the languages!

Do your children speak a language other than English at home, though? That's the testing that the PP was referencing--it assesses the child's fluency in English for ELL services, not for admission to the school. DCPS is supposed to be testing all children who speak a language other than English at home. The challenge that might arise would be if they test OP's child in K and find that he is not fluent in either Spanish or English. It sounds like the school does not provide services for English Language Learners who aren't Spanish-speaking, so he might then get moved to another school.

There don't seem to be hard and fast rules about kid qualifying for ELL services in DCPS if their English is OK or good. My two in an EotP get tested every year, some years they qualify, other years they don't. Some years they get pulled out regularly for support services, other years only occasionally, other years not at all, or one gets pulled out and the other doesn't (without our being given a reason). Our new principal has them pulled out more than the old one. System is very hard to fathom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

We've been advised at two DCPS schools (Title 1 and WOTP) not to check "no" on the HLS form to avoid testing for our kid who hears and (sometimes) speaks a second language at home but is completely proficient and English dominant. The testing should really not be an automatic consequence of answering the question truthfully.

Oops, I meant to say "we have been advised to check 'no'", i.e. to lie.

I'd be okay doing this for a bilingual kid who is English dominant to avoid the hoops of the testing. But OP's kid doesn't speak English, so he will definitely need ELL services--somewhat different situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

I knew a kid transfering from Walls to Wilson who checked other language on that form, and ended up in ELL classes, took a lot of stress to get schedule fixed, was shut out some AP classes by the time it was fixed

Wilson does the same thing too. It all depends on the grade level counselor to let a student who speaks multiple languages take any AP classes. The best advice I can give, when this happens is go with a student advocate or private counselor, especially when the parents are not native English speaker. It is an implicit bias in America to think that anyone who speaks English with a non-native (American, British, Irish, Aussie) accent lacks fluency and comprehension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

I knew a kid transfering from Walls to Wilson who checked other language on that form, and ended up in ELL classes, took a lot of stress to get schedule fixed, was shut out some AP classes by the time it was fixed

Wow, our kid is totally English dominant, which is WHY I frequently speak Spanish to him at home and insist that we watch TV movies in Spanish as a family. I have sometimes checked "yes" on this form. This has never resulted in any talk of ELL testing or classes. I wonder if it's because we didn't check Hispanic/Latino for ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved IB for Oyster last year, applied as Spanish dominant (our son is actually Russian dominant, then Spanish, then English - in that order). After having been congratulated for winning a spot, got confronted with the Spanish test for our 3.5 year old (admittedly did not see that coming). During the testing did not hide the fact that Spanish is his second native (yes, when he wakes up from a nightmare, he screams in Russian) and were rejected. Oyster could care less, gave us "get the hell out of here, fraudsters" treatment. Still in shock.
The Google search for alternatives is very frustrating. Apparently, we have already missed all deadlines. Ideally, would like a bilingual school, ok with private, in NW DC but will consider all options. Many thanks for any leads.

Just an FYI - it is a thing that people try and work the system and get into schools Spanish dominant when the child is not fluent in the language. Parent's say - the baby sitter has been speaking to them since they were an infant. It is common knowledge that there is a test - and it is also common that there are families like yours that do not meet the bar for fluency. The school set guidelines - communicated those guidelines and you decided to ignore them.

The school has put the test out there so that they can have a bi-lingual classroom and every family that tries to work the system chips away at the program.

You did nothing wrong and forget about the preparation. There is a test but it is not an objective test, so you did well trying. Some children are given the test before hand and many children are admitted that do not pass the test. In Oyster most things work this way. It is all quite personal because they can get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved IB for Oyster last year, applied as Spanish dominant (our son is actually Russian dominant, then Spanish, then English - in that order). After having been congratulated for winning a spot, got confronted with the Spanish test for our 3.5 year old (admittedly did not see that coming). During the testing did not hide the fact that Spanish is his second native (yes, when he wakes up from a nightmare, he screams in Russian) and were rejected. Oyster could care less, gave us "get the hell out of here, fraudsters" treatment. Still in shock.
The Google search for alternatives is very frustrating. Apparently, we have already missed all deadlines. Ideally, would like a bilingual school, ok with private, in NW DC but will consider all options. Many thanks for any leads.

Just an FYI - it is a thing that people try and work the system and get into schools Spanish dominant when the child is not fluent in the language. Parent's say - the baby sitter has been speaking to them since they were an infant. It is common knowledge that there is a test - and it is also common that there are families like yours that do not meet the bar for fluency. The school set guidelines - communicated those guidelines and you decided to ignore them.

The school has put the test out there so that they can have a bi-lingual classroom and every family that tries to work the system chips away at the program.

You did nothing wrong and forget about the preparation. There is a test but it is not an objective test, so you did well trying. Some children are given the test before hand and many children are admitted that do not pass the test. In Oyster most things work this way. It is all quite personal because they can get away with it.

Wow, that is terrible then. No consistency or standard. People trying to gain the system.

This dilutes the quality of the dual language immersion program then when you do not actually have a good percentage of native Spanish speaking children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved IB for Oyster last year, applied as Spanish dominant (our son is actually Russian dominant, then Spanish, then English - in that order). After having been congratulated for winning a spot, got confronted with the Spanish test for our 3.5 year old (admittedly did not see that coming). During the testing did not hide the fact that Spanish is his second native (yes, when he wakes up from a nightmare, he screams in Russian) and were rejected. Oyster could care less, gave us "get the hell out of here, fraudsters" treatment. Still in shock.
The Google search for alternatives is very frustrating. Apparently, we have already missed all deadlines. Ideally, would like a bilingual school, ok with private, in NW DC but will consider all options. Many thanks for any leads.

Just an FYI - it is a thing that people try and work the system and get into schools Spanish dominant when the child is not fluent in the language. Parent's say - the baby sitter has been speaking to them since they were an infant. It is common knowledge that there is a test - and it is also common that there are families like yours that do not meet the bar for fluency. The school set guidelines - communicated those guidelines and you decided to ignore them.

The school has put the test out there so that they can have a bi-lingual classroom and every family that tries to work the system chips away at the program.

You did nothing wrong and forget about the preparation. There is a test but it is not an objective test, so you did well trying. Some children are given the test before hand and many children are admitted that do not pass the test. In Oyster most things work this way. It is all quite personal because they can get away with it.

Wow, that is terrible then. No consistency or standard. People trying to gain the system.

This dilutes the quality of the dual language immersion program then when you do not actually have a good percentage of native Spanish speaking children.

What PP above is saying is simply false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that people do try to fudge it. But if your kid is borderline, how can you tell whether they will pass or not? Little kids are squirrely and it is hard to predict how they will respond to a testing environment.

Precisely. How can you test a small kid? There is no way to predict how they react: mine can be quite silly or completely quiet: depends on the moment. The school knows this (or should know it if they were to read something on testing little kids) and for that reason they pick who enters and who does not. Do not worry about the test at all (but do a lot of inside networking). If you did not get in, ask for a second chance. Some parents get a second chance, others get help from teachers or from other parents with connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you go with your son to take the test or did your husband? If your son isn't used to speaking Spanish with you and instead speaks Russian then perhaps that is why he didn't do as well as you thought. Maybe your husband should go and plead your case. I don't understand how a public school can discriminate against children who are not fluent in any language. Your son is certainly not English language dominant if you are speaking Russian and your husband is speaking Spanish. How can there only be two categories- Fluent English speaker and Fluent Spanish speaker. What about a child who has a language delay and can't pass a test in either language? Is there a test for English speakers as well?

We used exactly the same arguments. Oyster did not care. We both went, as we figured, we can't hide such an obvious fact that our son speaks Russian. It seemed only logical to choose Spanish on the application, as his English is almost non-existent. If we had chosen English and still won the lottery, would Oyster care that our son still can't form a complete sentence in English?

They don't administer an English test, because I don't think the situation comes up very often.

And of course there are many more English-dominant applicants, so you might not have gotten in anyway. It is easier to get into the Spanish; a spanish-dominant IB child is pretty much a sure thing because there simply aren't many who live in the boundary.

You are wrong. Students are chosen whether they are in boundary or not for other reasons. Perhaps the school does not want to teach them (or does not teach them well) so if they accept "fluent" children, they do not have much to do and a lot to show in terms of good scores. A good school? Maybe not so. It just has the benefits of a small school the first three years, then it is like the rest of DCPS or worse (worse than Mann, Jeanney, Murch, Lafayette...). The best is to research schools that actually teach the children to be bilingual. It is hard work to teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that people do try to fudge it. But if your kid is borderline, how can you tell whether they will pass or not? Little kids are squirrely and it is hard to predict how they will respond to a testing environment.

Precisely. How can you test a small kid? There is no way to predict how they react: mine can be quite silly or completely quiet: depends on the moment. The school knows this (or should know it if they were to read something on testing little kids) and for that reason they pick who enters and who does not. Do not worry about the test at all (but do a lot of inside networking). If you did not get in, ask for a second chance. Some parents get a second chance, others get help from teachers or from other parents with connections.

Either a child is native Spanish speaking at home or not. What is the primary language that the child communicates in since infancy? It’s not weather the child understands some Spanish or can speak a little Spanish when asked to.

If OP’s child speaks Russian at home, then that is the native language.

We are in a language immersion program and no one considers a child native Spanish speaking just because they understand some Spanish but thinks and speaks in English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that people do try to fudge it. But if your kid is borderline, how can you tell whether they will pass or not? Little kids are squirrely and it is hard to predict how they will respond to a testing environment.

Precisely. How can you test a small kid? There is no way to predict how they react: mine can be quite silly or completely quiet: depends on the moment. The school knows this (or should know it if they were to read something on testing little kids) and for that reason they pick who enters and who does not. Do not worry about the test at all (but do a lot of inside networking). If you did not get in, ask for a second chance. Some parents get a second chance, others get help from teachers or from other parents with connections.

The school has been doing this for decades. They don't approach it as a "test" but as a natural conversation with the kid and (separately) with the parent/s.

Nothing is perfect...but IMO the school does a good and fair job.