Rejected by Oyster for Pre-K4 Spanish dominant - what are our options?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's really messed up. Oyster's loss. My son would've failed the test too, but would've been caught up with other within months. I'm from Northern Europe and his father is from South America.
We also speak several languages at home. His Spanish and English are not as good as they could be, but they would only get better at school.

The purpose of the Spanish/English split is top reserve the model where there are children who are fluent models of each language. Oyster doesn’t have a shortage of English models so they don’t give them priority. They do prioritize kids who are fluent in Spanish. OP’s kid isn’t fluent in Spanish. Her husband might be but it sounds like he’s not the primary parent.

I also find it amazing the OP paid for one of the most expensive neighborhoods and didn’t do enough research to know how two way immersion works. The test shouldn’t have been a surprise.

This. Thank you, PP. That's the most concise description I've seen of why this makes perfect sense. OP - read this.

I agree. The OP's child isn't a good model for fluent English nor Spanish speaking students. She should have put the child in a Spanish immersion preschool. It amazes me how many people really don't plan the most basic things related to their children's education.

If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

Of for fox sake. Can we stop with the parent shaming? The DC public and charter system is the most complicated in the country. Even the former chancellor's wife couldn't figure it out for a high school student.

Oyster-Adams is different from all the other bilingual programs. It also has a political history more complicated than a Colombian telenovela translated into Mandarin. It used to let principals decide whom to accept. Now they get to basically do the same thing through their own subjective testing of 3 and 4 year olds.

Add on top of that, DCPS requires testing any student who lives in a household where any language other than or in addition to English is spoken. Our "born bilingual," IB for Oyster children were tested, as required, by the city in kinder. One tested as ELL/bilingual and the other English proficient. Had the ELL child tested just 1 point lower, DCPS would have moved that child out of Oyster to the Marie Reed English-only track for English Language Learners. Same family, same genes, same DCPS tester.

Eventually, one of our children had language-based learning disabilities that could not have been diagnosed when DCPS tested them. Oyster was unable to address the child's need in either language. We moved that child later and the other child for different reasons. No school is perfect.

You can do all the research you want, but you can't anticipate how a child will develop. And you certainly can't anticipate how adults will assess the language skills of a preschooler on any particular day.

OP asked for help. They did not ask for judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at Communikids in Tenleytown.

Thank you for pointing this one out, looks very promising. Any idea how hard it is at this point to get into its paid Pre-K? I got on the waitlist.

The wait list is pretty long OP. https://communikids.com/pre-k-3-and-4-free-preschool-in-dc/

For paid pre-K, you should keep in touch with them regularly. Someone from the paid list might drop out. The school would backfill from the paid list, not the free list. So you wouldn't be "taking" a slot from the free list.

CommuniKids summer and afterschool programs worked out well for our bilingual kids even when they were in English school during the day and school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's really messed up. Oyster's loss. My son would've failed the test too, but would've been caught up with other within months. I'm from Northern Europe and his father is from South America.
We also speak several languages at home. His Spanish and English are not as good as they could be, but they would only get better at school.

The purpose of the Spanish/English split is top reserve the model where there are children who are fluent models of each language. Oyster doesn’t have a shortage of English models so they don’t give them priority. They do prioritize kids who are fluent in Spanish. OP’s kid isn’t fluent in Spanish. Her husband might be but it sounds like he’s not the primary parent.

I also find it amazing the OP paid for one of the most expensive neighborhoods and didn’t do enough research to know how two way immersion works. The test shouldn’t have been a surprise.

This. Thank you, PP. That's the most concise description I've seen of why this makes perfect sense. OP - read this.

I agree. The OP's child isn't a good model for fluent English nor Spanish speaking students. She should have put the child in a Spanish immersion preschool. It amazes me how many people really don't plan the most basic things related to their children's education.

If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

Of for fox sake. Can we stop with the parent shaming? The DC public and charter system is the most complicated in the country. Even the former chancellor's wife couldn't figure it out for a high school student.

Oyster-Adams is different from all the other bilingual programs. It also has a political history more complicated than a Colombian telenovela translated into Mandarin. It used to let principals decide whom to accept. Now they get to basically do the same thing through their own subjective testing of 3 and 4 year olds.

Add on top of that, DCPS requires testing any student who lives in a household where any language other than or in addition to English is spoken. Our "born bilingual," IB for Oyster children were tested, as required, by the city in kinder. One tested as ELL/bilingual and the other English proficient. Had the ELL child tested just 1 point lower, DCPS would have moved that child out of Oyster to the Marie Reed English-only track for English Language Learners. Same family, same genes, same DCPS tester.

Eventually, one of our children had language-based learning disabilities that could not have been diagnosed when DCPS tested them. Oyster was unable to address the child's need in either language. We moved that child later and the other child for different reasons. No school is perfect.

You can do all the research you want, but you can't anticipate how a child will develop. And you certainly can't anticipate how adults will assess the language skills of a preschooler on any particular day.

OP asked for help. They did not ask for judgement.

OP here. Thank you so much for this insight. I skipped the description of the actual testing experience at Oyster, but you actually nailed it. I also skipped to mention that in the last three years we lived in three countries, one of them was French speaking. And that for us the priority was that our child gets a good command of Russian first. As I am sure some of the parents here know, it is a challenge to bring up a trilingual child. It feels like you are juggling three balls in the air at all times.

I am still confused though: you mentioned that your kids were tested by the city in kindergarten, although other posters said there is no testing at the K level and a bilingual school must take all IB children. I will make sure our son attends a bilingual immersion program this year and improves his Spanish and English, but I am wondering whether he will be tested in English and/or Spanish at the K level even though we live IB.

Again, thank you for making sense of all this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at Communikids in Tenleytown.

Thank you for pointing this one out, looks very promising. Any idea how hard it is at this point to get into its paid Pre-K? I got on the waitlist.

The wait list is pretty long OP. https://communikids.com/pre-k-3-and-4-free-preschool-in-dc/

For paid pre-K, you should keep in touch with them regularly. Someone from the paid list might drop out. The school would backfill from the paid list, not the free list. So you wouldn't be "taking" a slot from the free list.

CommuniKids summer and afterschool programs worked out well for our bilingual kids even when they were in English school during the day and school year.

OP here. Thank you for this insight. Some of our friends have already recommended to us that keeping in touch with schools where we are waitlisted might help us to get in if someone drops out. I will also look into their summer program. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Good luck OP! Our family is also raising trilingual children and it is a challenge and a joy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's really messed up. Oyster's loss. My son would've failed the test too, but would've been caught up with other within months. I'm from Northern Europe and his father is from South America.
We also speak several languages at home. His Spanish and English are not as good as they could be, but they would only get better at school.

The purpose of the Spanish/English split is top reserve the model where there are children who are fluent models of each language. Oyster doesn’t have a shortage of English models so they don’t give them priority. They do prioritize kids who are fluent in Spanish. OP’s kid isn’t fluent in Spanish. Her husband might be but it sounds like he’s not the primary parent.

I also find it amazing the OP paid for one of the most expensive neighborhoods and didn’t do enough research to know how two way immersion works. The test shouldn’t have been a surprise.

This. Thank you, PP. That's the most concise description I've seen of why this makes perfect sense. OP - read this.

I agree. The OP's child isn't a good model for fluent English nor Spanish speaking students. She should have put the child in a Spanish immersion preschool. It amazes me how many people really don't plan the most basic things related to their children's education.

If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

Of for fox sake. Can we stop with the parent shaming? The DC public and charter system is the most complicated in the country. Even the former chancellor's wife couldn't figure it out for a high school student.

Oyster-Adams is different from all the other bilingual programs. It also has a political history more complicated than a Colombian telenovela translated into Mandarin. It used to let principals decide whom to accept. Now they get to basically do the same thing through their own subjective testing of 3 and 4 year olds.

Add on top of that, DCPS requires testing any student who lives in a household where any language other than or in addition to English is spoken. Our "born bilingual," IB for Oyster children were tested, as required, by the city in kinder. One tested as ELL/bilingual and the other English proficient. Had the ELL child tested just 1 point lower, DCPS would have moved that child out of Oyster to the Marie Reed English-only track for English Language Learners. Same family, same genes, same DCPS tester.

Eventually, one of our children had language-based learning disabilities that could not have been diagnosed when DCPS tested them. Oyster was unable to address the child's need in either language. We moved that child later and the other child for different reasons. No school is perfect.

You can do all the research you want, but you can't anticipate how a child will develop. And you certainly can't anticipate how adults will assess the language skills of a preschooler on any particular day.

OP asked for help. They did not ask for judgement.

OP here. Thank you so much for this insight. I skipped the description of the actual testing experience at Oyster, but you actually nailed it. I also skipped to mention that in the last three years we lived in three countries, one of them was French speaking. And that for us the priority was that our child gets a good command of Russian first. As I am sure some of the parents here know, it is a challenge to bring up a trilingual child. It feels like you are juggling three balls in the air at all times.

I am still confused though: you mentioned that your kids were tested by the city in kindergarten, although other posters said there is no testing at the K level and a bilingual school must take all IB children. I will make sure our son attends a bilingual immersion program this year and improves his Spanish and English, but I am wondering whether he will be tested in English and/or Spanish at the K level even though we live IB.

Again, thank you for making sense of all this.

We are at Oyster after moving inbounds at K. No testing. Lots of friends at the school whose kids speak Russian/German/French etc at home in addition to the expected Spanish speaking and monolingual households.

Sorry your kiddo didn’t pass the test, but we’ve enjoyed our time there. We lived in another area for ps/Pk and didn’t get into a language immersion so finally just made the move. Lots of friends whose younger siblings were at either private daycare or Reed/Bruce Monroe for first two years.

Good luck with the languages!

[Anonymous]

Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

[Anonymous]

I hope you're not too put off - Oyster was trying to enforce their rules which were not clear to you. It's understandable that you would be put off by the experience... One clear reason I know you are not a "fraud" is that had you known how stringent they are about Spanish-dominant, you wouldn't have risked it in the lottery - since now you are without a spot and scrambling which is no fun.

We are also IB for Oyster but starting K the following year, so my understanding is from neighbors with kids and multiple open houses. It's a neighborhood school so once you hit K, the doors are wide open, without testing. In fact, I wouldn't worry if you can't do Spanish immersion preschool, your child will adapt super well since he already knows tons of Spanish. Some kids come in knowing zero Spanish. Just find a place where he will thrive as a little human being for the year and that fits your family's needs/commute etc, and either way he'll be good to go next year in K at Oyster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just don't answer the question about other languages in the home come K. It will simplify your life tremendously

Last I checked, the Home Language Survey is a required form for everyone enrolling at any DCPS school. The purpose is to make sure the school has adequate resources for English Languages Learners. There are levels for those who honestly complete the form: 1) fully proficient in English/not ELL, 2) technically ELL based on testing but has enough English for dual-immersion (lots of Oyster kids), and 3) zero English or Spanish comprehension (would benefit from English-only program track or school).

The initial testing is through DCPS language office. Subsequent testing is done at school. It's not a big deal if your child is English proficient. It's helpful for the school to justify additional language resources.

Here is the rationale from DCPS:
DCPS Home Language Survey (HLS) Form
To help us ensure that important opportunities to receive English Learner services are offered to students who need
them, the law requires us to ask questions about the students’ language backgrounds. Your answers below will tell us if
your student’s proficiency in English should be evaluated.

[Anonymous]

If you really want Spanish there's a bilingual parochial school http://www.sacredheartschooldc.org/ that costs about $7k. You could see if they have a PK4 slot--they're still accepting applications.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you really wanted Oyster for PreK, what were you doing teaching the kid Russian? Sounds like you could have, and should have, stuck with Spanish and English (mostly Spanish).

I speak an European language, my spouse and Asian language as a native speaker. We only use the Asian language and English at home. Raisling fully trilingual kids in DC seemed next to impossible to us. In Switzerland, sure, here, no.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, i'm an Adams Morgan parent as well, and we are a Russian/English speaking family with a tiny bit of Spanish. I'm the author of this post: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/719395.page

If you'd like to connect, you can find me and others on facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/454581051569238/?ref=bookmarks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you really wanted Oyster for PreK, what were you doing teaching the kid Russian? Sounds like you could have, and should have, stuck with Spanish and English (mostly Spanish).

I speak an European language, my spouse and Asian language as a native speaker. We only use the Asian language and English at home. Raisling fully trilingual kids in DC seemed next to impossible to us. In Switzerland, sure, here, no.

Russian is her native language so she has a very good reason to speak to her child only in Russian! I am a language teacher and my children go to WIS and have plenty of friends who are fully trilingual - it is not impossible. Two even speak four languages (language of Parent 1, language of Parent 2, English, and either Spanish or French at WIS). These kids are now in high school or graduated so these results are long-term. It can be difficult because children all begin to resist speaking the parents' native language at some point, but I have seen many families over the years who are successful at it. You just have to be crazy persistent about never reverting to English with your child.

If OP's child goes to an immersion school, and dad is persistent about speaking only Spanish with him, that child will become proficient in Spanish. It's certainly not too late and he can become trilingual right here in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you really wanted Oyster for PreK, what were you doing teaching the kid Russian? Sounds like you could have, and should have, stuck with Spanish and English (mostly Spanish).

I speak an European language, my spouse and Asian language as a native speaker. We only use the Asian language and English at home. Raisling fully trilingual kids in DC seemed next to impossible to us. In Switzerland, sure, here, no.

Please don't judge someone else's parenting based on your belief in language acquisition strategy. There is no one single correct way to learn to speak and understand more than one language. A lot depends on the individual person. Human brains are pre-wired to comprehend up to 5 distinct spoken languages at once. Spend a few moments in pretty much any market in sub-Saharan Africa and you'll see how it works. Multilingualism doesn't always come from One Parent, One Language or OPOL

Literacy in any language is not the same as speaking and understanding. Human brains were are not hardwired to read or write. That's why preschoolers can't read Harry Potter, but they can easily learn to sing Frere Jacques/Brother John.

OP, do what feels right for your family. Try not to listen to people who don't know your child or your family who tell you that you're doing language learning "wrong." Whatever schools you attend, I hope you and your family enjoy the community.

[Anonymous]

Nobody's judging the parenting style, they're judging OP's strategy vis a vis Oyster for PreK. If OP wanted the kid to qualify for the Spanish dominant lottery--meaning easy access to Oyster at age 4--they needed to raise a Spanish dominant toddler. They were in a position to do this. Not to be unkind, but they were caught flat-footed only because they didn't think things through.