APS - questions about Key / ASFS building swap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There should be traffic calming devices on Kirkwood. The road is a nightmare. If you obey the speed limit you will be cruelly tailgated. Lots of speed humps in LV—a comical number, actually. Maybe add some to Kirkwood.

Yes. I walk across to get to the back steps for school events or when I am going in to chaperone. The morning especially is like the Indy 500. Cars on Kirkwood are going very, VERY fast. My kids were capable in later years of walking to school by themselves and up the steps, but I never let them because of the Kirkwood cross. It doesn't even have flashing lights or anything at the cross. For a smaller kid, cars just don't see them.

[Anonymous]

I think there's a great argument to be made for both Key and ASFS being neighborhood schools if walkability and convenience for families are a priority. Both buildings could be serving communities along the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor where people are actually walkers who will walk to school vs people who are in the car anyway and will drop off to save time.

If this is a thunderdome situation with Key vs. ASFS, I do think the claim for a neighborhood school is a bit stronger for Key because the walkzone population is bigger and it is still growing fast. Also, moving the kids from ASFS back to Key for a neighborhood school keeps the community intact vs splitting it and sending Rosslyn somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp who helped with walk zoned for another school. The issue isn’t that three people can’t walk because lots of residential streets are like that. The issue is that you have a narrow sidewalk on a busy road. If there weren’t cars going very fast on that street, not having a wide side walk wouldn’t matter. But it’s a busy street and right off the highway. The fact that the only way parents can walk to that school from that side is crossing into a back entrance that isn’t handicap accessible is an issue. If it’s a steep hill without a continuous sidewalk, that’s an issue. If crossing a street is potentially unsafe, people are more likely to get in their cars. That’s not what aps wants.
Again my kids are at another school. I have no dog in this fight. I know you guys want to expand the asfs walk zone, but please don’t shout down reasonable safety concerns. If a kid gets hit or the traffic gets horrendous, it will be on you.

NP with no dog in this fight since my kids are in college but live in the neighborhood. The only possibly legitimate argument you might have is that the one block of sidewalk students would use on Kirkwood is too narrow and that is something the County could easily address. Otherwise:

1) You are acting like Kirkwood is a virtual race track and right off of 66 (unless you are talking about Spout Run, which is hardly a highway considering the speed limit is 35 MPH and strictly enforced), neither of which is accurate. The intersection of Henderson and George Mason, as well as the traffic on Henderson,are significantly busier than Kirkwood and students are able to cross it just fine with a crossing guard to walk to Barrett. And to get from 66 to Kirkwood requires exiting to Lee Highway and either stopping at two traffic lights first or stopping at one traffic light and then slowing down to cut through a parking lot.

2) Walking up the back stairs is not the only way parents can walk to ASFS from Lyon Village.

3) The steep hill has a continuous sidewalk. And half of this OMG steep hill can be avoided by entering the school property at the playground rather than the front entrance.

4) The school has existed for 30+ years and has numerous ADA compliant entrances and exits. The law does not require each and every possible way to get to the school be handicap accessible.

5) If a kid gets hit by a car, that will not be "on" the people who advocate for an expanded walk zone. That would be the responsibility of either the driver, the kid, or both, and the School Board, which employs professionals to study these matters before making such decisions.

6) Traffic at the school is already horrendous, mostly for two reasons. Since school doesn't start until 8:55, many parents drive to ASFS on their way to work because they don't have the 10-15 minutes it might take to walk their kids to school or have no choice but to drive there to put their kid in extended day before school starts. I also know plenty of families around Courthouse who could put their kids on a school bus but choose not to for whatever reason and instead drive.

Like a pp said, there may be reasons for not swapping ASFS and Key but access from Lyon Village is not one of them.

Enter at playground?? Please explain.

Lots of people do cut through from 66 to the Clarendon/VA Square area on Kirkwood. It is a busy, fast-moving road. But that can be fixed with a crossing guard or light.

For a PP with no dog in this fight, they are pretty unhinged.

They are talking about cutting over from the left side 14th street sidewalk (because there is no sidewalk on right side), crossing 14th without crosswalk, going down kenmore st and entering behind the trailers on the field. And going all terrain to the playground ramp. In a wheelchair. Also, thought there was a fence, but maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be traffic calming devices on Kirkwood. The road is a nightmare. If you obey the speed limit you will be cruelly tailgated. Lots of speed humps in LV—a comical number, actually. Maybe add some to Kirkwood.

Yes. I walk across to get to the back steps for school events or when I am going in to chaperone. The morning especially is like the Indy 500. Cars on Kirkwood are going very, VERY fast. My kids were capable in later years of walking to school by themselves and up the steps, but I never let them because of the Kirkwood cross. It doesn't even have flashing lights or anything at the cross. For a smaller kid, cars just don't see them.

Getting the county to approve a HAWK and speed bumps will take years.

Should also have protected left turn arrow from Lee on to Kirkwood, as making that turn at rush hour means BLASTING thru as soon as light turns yellow, and once at speed most folks don’t slow down for a while.

[Anonymous]

Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp who helped with walk zoned for another school. The issue isn’t that three people can’t walk because lots of residential streets are like that. The issue is that you have a narrow sidewalk on a busy road. If there weren’t cars going very fast on that street, not having a wide side walk wouldn’t matter. But it’s a busy street and right off the highway. The fact that the only way parents can walk to that school from that side is crossing into a back entrance that isn’t handicap accessible is an issue. If it’s a steep hill without a continuous sidewalk, that’s an issue. If crossing a street is potentially unsafe, people are more likely to get in their cars. That’s not what aps wants.
Again my kids are at another school. I have no dog in this fight. I know you guys want to expand the asfs walk zone, but please don’t shout down reasonable safety concerns. If a kid gets hit or the traffic gets horrendous, it will be on you.

NP with no dog in this fight since my kids are in college but live in the neighborhood. The only possibly legitimate argument you might have is that the one block of sidewalk students would use on Kirkwood is too narrow and that is something the County could easily address. Otherwise:

1) You are acting like Kirkwood is a virtual race track and right off of 66 (unless you are talking about Spout Run, which is hardly a highway considering the speed limit is 35 MPH and strictly enforced), neither of which is accurate. The intersection of Henderson and George Mason, as well as the traffic on Henderson,are significantly busier than Kirkwood and students are able to cross it just fine with a crossing guard to walk to Barrett. And to get from 66 to Kirkwood requires exiting to Lee Highway and either stopping at two traffic lights first or stopping at one traffic light and then slowing down to cut through a parking lot.

2) Walking up the back stairs is not the only way parents can walk to ASFS from Lyon Village.

3) The steep hill has a continuous sidewalk. And half of this OMG steep hill can be avoided by entering the school property at the playground rather than the front entrance.

4) The school has existed for 30+ years and has numerous ADA compliant entrances and exits. The law does not require each and every possible way to get to the school be handicap accessible.

5) If a kid gets hit by a car, that will not be "on" the people who advocate for an expanded walk zone. That would be the responsibility of either the driver, the kid, or both, and the School Board, which employs professionals to study these matters before making such decisions.

6) Traffic at the school is already horrendous, mostly for two reasons. Since school doesn't start until 8:55, many parents drive to ASFS on their way to work because they don't have the 10-15 minutes it might take to walk their kids to school or have no choice but to drive there to put their kid in extended day before school starts. I also know plenty of families around Courthouse who could put their kids on a school bus but choose not to for whatever reason and instead drive.

Like a pp said, there may be reasons for not swapping ASFS and Key but access from Lyon Village is not one of them.

Enter at playground?? Please explain.

Lots of people do cut through from 66 to the Clarendon/VA Square area on Kirkwood. It is a busy, fast-moving road. But that can be fixed with a crossing guard or light.

For a PP with no dog in this fight, they are pretty unhinged.

They are talking about cutting over from the left side 14th street sidewalk (because there is no sidewalk on right side), crossing 14th without crosswalk, going down kenmore st and entering behind the trailers on the field. And going all terrain to the playground ramp. In a wheelchair. Also, thought there was a fence, but maybe not.

Crossing 14th right on that hill? Yikes! So dangerous. That might be worse than crossing Kirkwood. And I thought there was a fence behind the trailers...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be traffic calming devices on Kirkwood. The road is a nightmare. If you obey the speed limit you will be cruelly tailgated. Lots of speed humps in LV—a comical number, actually. Maybe add some to Kirkwood.

Yes. I walk across to get to the back steps for school events or when I am going in to chaperone. The morning especially is like the Indy 500. Cars on Kirkwood are going very, VERY fast. My kids were capable in later years of walking to school by themselves and up the steps, but I never let them because of the Kirkwood cross. It doesn't even have flashing lights or anything at the cross. For a smaller kid, cars just don't see them.

Getting the county to approve a HAWK and speed bumps will take years.

Should also have protected left turn arrow from Lee on to Kirkwood, as making that turn at rush hour means BLASTING thru as soon as light turns yellow, and once at speed most folks don’t slow down for a while.

OK. Let's get started.

And yes, a left arrow at Lee would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

It's yet to be proven that there will be any such influx. Remember, Key is a lottery for only half the county. To date, anyone outside of the Key neighborhood boundary who's wanted a spot in immersion has been able to attend, even thise on the Claremont waitlist. So, I don't know that there's suddenly going to be demand from outside the Key zone that would displace Key neighborhood kids immediately. And it isn't likely to be 300 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

There isn't a density of children in both zones. There's a density of housing, but Key has significantly more children in its potential walk zone than ASFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

There isn't a density of children in both zones. There's a density of housing, but Key has significantly more children in its potential walk zone than ASFS.

Even if you include the planning units on the other side of Kirkwood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

Does ASFS or Key provide any sense of moral cohesion to the community? I am concerned that moving immersion to ATS and ATS to Tuckahoe will destroy moral cohesion if Key and ASFS both are neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

Does ASFS or Key provide any sense of moral cohesion to the community? I am concerned that moving immersion to ATS and ATS to Tuckahoe will destroy moral cohesion if Key and ASFS both are neighborhood schools.

What is "moral cohesion"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

There isn't a density of children in both zones. There's a density of housing, but Key has significantly more children in its potential walk zone than ASFS.

Even if you include the planning units on the other side of Kirkwood?

Yes. If you add up asfs existing walk zone its around 120 (someone should check my math there). Kirkwood planning units effectively double the number of kids to 220.
Key has 314 in its existing walk zone, and another 150 from the units directly south that are orange and yellow in its updated map. There are more kids around key, and that isn't even including the ah around rocky run that is within a half mile walk to key but probably should have a bus anyways.
Lots more kids around key, not to mention that moving 200 kids out of Taylor to fill up asfs makes no sense. Taylor is crowded but not to the point that you need another school, but maybe I'm wrong there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both schools should be neighborhood. Swapping them does NOTHING to address influx of 300+ students from immersion lottery change.

+1

The density in that area supports two neighborhood schools.

There isn't a density of children in both zones. There's a density of housing, but Key has significantly more children in its potential walk zone than ASFS.

Even if you include the planning units on the other side of Kirkwood?

Yes. If you add up asfs existing walk zone its around 120 (someone should check my math there). Kirkwood planning units effectively double the number of kids to 220.
Key has 314 in its existing walk zone, and another 150 from the units directly south that are orange and yellow in its updated map. There are more kids around key, and that isn't even including the ah around rocky run that is within a half mile walk to key but probably should have a bus anyways.
Lots more kids around key, not to mention that moving 200 kids out of Taylor to fill up asfs makes no sense. Taylor is crowded but not to the point that you need another school, but maybe I'm wrong there.

How many walkers does Taylor have? Move immersion there.