Cheh letter to OSSE on Ellington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the pp in general, but I know more than 6 students (good students, not particularly artsy) from the class of 2020 in Ward 6 who applied to either the museum studies or writing programs, as a way to not go to Eastern. All but one did not get in. I do not think that the other 6 should have been accepted just because they were DC residents. Would rather have out of state actually talented students pay tuition.

Well gosh, then doesn't this example cry out for the need to increase the number of seats in such programs as Museum Studies and Writing? Certainly there are a lot of students in DC who could perform well in subjects like this, and I don't begrudge ANY family seeking out a means to escape from a sentence at Eastern. If Ellington were to revise its standards a bit, it could become more of a haven for kids who are interested in an arts education. They all shouldn't have to be experts in playing an instrument or dancing, for goodness' sake.

This conversation shows that the full potential of Ellington to serve D.C. students is simply not being met.

Not necessarily --

2017-18 distribution of 9th grade students across the 8 disciplines offered at Ellington

Dance 22
Instrumental Music 31
Literary, Media and Comms 16
Tech/Production 12
Museum Studies 14
Theatre 18
Visual Arts 24
Vocal Music 32

Only 18 9th graders are enrolled in the theater program? Seriously? Ellington should be serving way more kids than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Damn, the dirt hasn't even settled on Peggy's grave.....

But this is way overdue. And i have heard that Ellington students only use the classrooms for 1/2 the day from multiple sources. It came up frequently during the renovation discussions. The excuss for the high cost was that it was really 2 schools, each used 1/2 the time.

Of course, the DC Council, Mayor and DCPS might have more visibility over Ellington, if they actually had the right to name directors to Ellington's board of trustees. They don't, which is shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

Weird quote which makes me wonder about its authenticity.

Why would she be particularly engaged on charters - none are in her Ward and hardly any of her constituents attend them.

I know Cheh fairly well and disagree with her on a bunch of stuff but she is very well informed on almost every city issue I've engaged with her on though I've not gone around with her on school policy but I would be very surprised to learn she is not well informed on the issue.

But I have engaged with her on some infrastructure and policy issues around 2 Ward 3 Schools and she and her staff were very on top of both issues before I'd even reached out and were responsive after I did. And she has most certainly delivered the money necessary to get Ward 3 Schools modernized - I know there is some angst among the Eaton community right now about funding but when Janney, Deal, Hearst, Wilson & Murch all needed more money she came through on each school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many non-DC residents were enrolled in Literary, Tech, or Museum studies? Or even Theatre or Visual Arts? I'd say another real scandal lies in waiting there. You can at least make the case that Tuba players are scarce, so bring one over from McLean if you have to; but outside of the skill-in-team positions ("Instrumental Music" is about it, or perhaps a male ballet dancer) I think Duke would be ashamed to make an argument that it was necessary to bring in foreigners.

Posters keep coming on here making excuses for allowing in MD and VA students by giving instrument examples (we need to have an oboe player!) but you are totally right, PP. I even heard a dope on Kojo yesterday trying to make the same lame deflection argument. I want to see the out of state breakdown across all the areas of instruction. Again, back to my original statement a couple pages back where I WANT TO SEE THE DATA. All of it. The data will speak for itself and we can all stop theorizing and making excuses why it's really ok that out of state students suck up our resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the pp in general, but I know more than 6 students (good students, not particularly artsy) from the class of 2020 in Ward 6 who applied to either the museum studies or writing programs, as a way to not go to Eastern. All but one did not get in. I do not think that the other 6 should have been accepted just because they were DC residents. Would rather have out of state actually talented students pay tuition.

Well gosh, then doesn't this example cry out for the need to increase the number of seats in such programs as Museum Studies and Writing? Certainly there are a lot of students in DC who could perform well in subjects like this, and I don't begrudge ANY family seeking out a means to escape from a sentence at Eastern. If Ellington were to revise its standards a bit, it could become more of a haven for kids who are interested in an arts education. They all shouldn't have to be experts in playing an instrument or dancing, for goodness' sake.

This conversation shows that the full potential of Ellington to serve D.C. students is simply not being met.

The kids who get into Ellington are not all experts. Many are not trained at all. Quite a few just have minor talent but great attitudes and potential. Similarly I have seen kids with great talent but funky attitudes, be turned away --as they should. And yes, all arts schools in general, everywhere, need to reboot their thinking to look at the entrepreneurial sides of the arts --writing, producing, directing, as well as how to do those things well across new tech platforms. When they do, it will open the door for many kids with other skills. That, of course, takes teachers and resources and bit of vision at DCPS, and in MD and VA so they can stop sending kids to DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

She cares deeply about some Ward 3 schools. She's always available to do a legislative favor for Maret, GDS or Lab. Ward 3 public schools? Not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

Weird quote which makes me wonder about its authenticity.

Why would she be particularly engaged on charters - none are in her Ward and hardly any of her constituents attend them.

More kids in-bounds for Hardy attend Latin and Basis than Hardy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

She cares deeply about some Ward 3 schools. She's always available to do a legislative favor for Maret, GDS or Lab. Ward 3 public schools? Not so much.

You seriously need to provide some example of how she has not cared about or delivered for Ward 3 schools - I'm not a Mary Cheh fan and could critique her at length but this is one area where I've not heard complaints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

Weird quote which makes me wonder about its authenticity.

Why would she be particularly engaged on charters - none are in her Ward and hardly any of her constituents attend them.

More kids in-bounds for Hardy attend Latin and Basis than Hardy.

And that proves what exactly? I'd love to see a citation for that BTW. Also isn't a good part of the Hardy boundaries in Ward 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible Duke Ellington had to find more students while they were in swing space so that it would be a full student body when they finally occupied?

Another comment, this one tongue-in-cheek: Antwan Wilson gave the parents of non-resident cheaters the perfect talking point: "We didn't make any demands, we were offered the spot. We didn't know we were doing anything wrong..."

The point is why should we be trying to come up with theories to explain why so many out of state students are at Ellington? Let them tell us. Let them share their application and audition data and the process, etc. We are the taxpayers who pay for this PUBLIC school. We must demand much more transparency. And it is unconscionable to me to build a palace to arts education for high school while at the same time DCPS has been undervaluing in under cutting arts education at the elementary and middle school levels for decades.

They do share all that. It's on their website under "audition process". And as other PP have noted, so many come from Md and Va primarily because Md and VA have middle school arts programs and the parents want their kids to continue with that training. DC needs to step up the middle school game seriously. MD and VA need arts high schools or they need to subsidize Ellington. But don't kid yourselves, not that many students even show up for auditions. Ellington loses a couple hundred just between applying and showing up. Part of that is the problem with the lottery system. Ellington is all audition based, but you still must choose it as #1 in the lottery if you are coming from a DC school. People can get in, choose it as #2 and still be sent to their neighborhood school if that school comes up on lottery. That's not Ellington's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

Weird quote which makes me wonder about its authenticity.

Why would she be particularly engaged on charters - none are in her Ward and hardly any of her constituents attend them.

More kids in-bounds for Hardy attend Latin and Basis than Hardy.

Not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

Weird quote which makes me wonder about its authenticity.

Why would she be particularly engaged on charters - none are in her Ward and hardly any of her constituents attend them.

I know Cheh fairly well and disagree with her on a bunch of stuff but she is very well informed on almost every city issue I've engaged with her on though I've not gone around with her on school policy but I would be very surprised to learn she is not well informed on the issue.

But I have engaged with her on some infrastructure and policy issues around 2 Ward 3 Schools and she and her staff were very on top of both issues before I'd even reached out and were responsive after I did. And she has most certainly delivered the money necessary to get Ward 3 Schools modernized - I know there is some angst among the Eaton community right now about funding but when Janney, Deal, Hearst, Wilson & Murch all needed more money she came through on each school.

hand in the till for her district doesn't = knowledge on public education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible Duke Ellington had to find more students while they were in swing space so that it would be a full student body when they finally occupied?

Another comment, this one tongue-in-cheek: Antwan Wilson gave the parents of non-resident cheaters the perfect talking point: "We didn't make any demands, we were offered the spot. We didn't know we were doing anything wrong..."

The point is why should we be trying to come up with theories to explain why so many out of state students are at Ellington? Let them tell us. Let them share their application and audition data and the process, etc. We are the taxpayers who pay for this PUBLIC school. We must demand much more transparency. And it is unconscionable to me to build a palace to arts education for high school while at the same time DCPS has been undervaluing in under cutting arts education at the elementary and middle school levels for decades.

They do share all that. It's on their website under "audition process". And as other PP have noted, so many come from Md and Va primarily because Md and VA have middle school arts programs and the parents want their kids to continue with that training. DC needs to step up the middle school game seriously. MD and VA need arts high schools or they need to subsidize Ellington. But don't kid yourselves, not that many students even show up for auditions. Ellington loses a couple hundred just between applying and showing up. Part of that is the problem with the lottery system. Ellington is all audition based, but you still must choose it as #1 in the lottery if you are coming from a DC school. People can get in, choose it as #2 and still be sent to their neighborhood school if that school comes up on lottery. That's not Ellington's fault.

Where can I see how many students applied last year, how many were District residents and how many District residents were denied enrollment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments about Cheh's interests in the schools beginning and ending with Ward 3 are absurd - is there a Ward in the city that has more out of boundary/Ward kids coming into their boundary to attend school every day?

And it isn't just Deal, Wilson & Ellington that have lots of non Ward 3 kids - Hardy, Hearst & Eaton also have decent percentage of non Ward 3 kids.

Ward 3 can't forever be the DCPS/Council solution to under performing schools - in fact that solution has been one of the obstacles to schools getting better elsewhere because there are too many high SES kids in Ward 3, many of whom could be helping to lift schools elsewhere and are not.

they are absurd -- she barely GAF about the WARD 3 schools, let alone the system, half of which includes charters which don't even exist in her ward. I've interacted with most of the Council on school issues and I was surprised to find Cheh so out of touch on schools in relation to her peers.

She cares deeply about some Ward 3 schools. She's always available to do a legislative favor for Maret, GDS or Lab. Ward 3 public schools? Not so much.

You seriously need to provide some example of how she has not cared about or delivered for Ward 3 schools - I'm not a Mary Cheh fan and could critique her at length but this is one area where I've not heard complaints.

BINGO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see some very basic data which should be super easy for Ellington to provide. For the last four years, How many DC applicants were there for Ellington? How many auditioned and for which programs? And how many were not accepted? I want to see how they justify turning away child of District tax-paying residents while knowingly letting in outnod state kids. DUKE ELLINGTON IS A DC PUBLIC SCHOOL. it isn’t a private school. It isn’t a regional magnet. It’s a DCPS. It is all so maddening. So we built a palace that was $100 million over budget so kids from MD and VA can benefit. Enough.

It is actually a regional magnet in the sense that people from around the region may attend by paying tuition. People seem to miss the point that cheaters appears to be DC residents, so this was not a case of intentionally letting in out of town students. As for who applies, I've been at auditions and they are fairly blind. While you do apply beforehand to get a scheduled audition time, your audition is purely talent based. Nobody asks you where you are from before you sing/dance/act/play. You can either do those things with talent or potential or not.

And there in lies the rub. you make it sound like you're shrugging your shoulders when you basically say Ellington is a regional school essentially by default. But it's not supposed to be. It is a District of Columbia Public School. Period. I get that DCPS has created a path for students from MD and VA to attend by paying tuition (that is set way too low) but so long as children of District taxpayers are getting turned away, allowing out of states students in is bull.

NP. I think it should become a regional magnet.

Run it the way Thomas Jefferson is managed. Multiple counties pay into the school and students from each jurisdiction can apply. Those that get in on the merits attend (no quota by county).

And there are no comparable performing arts magnets in MoCo (I don't know about surrounding VA counties).