Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?

[Anonymous]

The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

Sorry, ignore that. I meant to post on the "peer group" CES thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

but, but my DS scored 99s on the test and deserves a spot based only on this one test in isolation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are people looking for this data as the basis for a lawsuit or something? Because it seems that MCPS can create whatever criteria it wants for admission to schools that it administers, as long as they are legal (not gender or race-based).

As an analogy, in Texas all students in the top 10% of their high school graduating classes are guaranteed admission to the University of Texas. So of course that means that many kids at lower performing schools are technically taking the place of students with higher scores and grades from more competitive high schools who didn't place in the top 10% of their classes. But Texas is allowed to do this because they're their schools and it helps provide opportunity to kids outside the usual wealthy suburbs.

So what. Some kids start college taking remedial math and others taking multivariable calculus. They all go on to get different degrees. Magnet schools should be the tippy top kids, not some kids of various races that don’t do as good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

This is their new way of saying we will admit who we want and make it diverse as we want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the HGCs were targeted. If a kid came to HGC from a good home school unless they were an outlier in their HGC they did not get in the MS magnet.

On the other hand, slightly above average URM students from any school and HGC students from poor performing home schools were invited to magnet MS.

We are assigned to a low performing ES, MS and HS. My children have always been in magnet programs and are outliers within the magnet program as well. Still, if the magnet programs are so diluted that any bright kid (but not exceptional child) can be included, I do not want to trek to a magnet program. The value of the magnet program is the peer group first, the parents second, the curriculum third and if we are lucky we get qualified teachers, dedicated coordinator and not hostile administration.

I wonder since when doing well became such a bad thing in American society?

There is absolutely no way you could have the data to support the assertions in bold, so this is just inflammatory.

I don't know if the second point is true, but the first absolutely is. Availability of peer cohort is listed as one of the criteria, and Cold Spring, with historically the highest admission stats across the board, arguably in itself yields three sizeable MS peer cohorts assigned to MSs with enriched (ha!) instruction. Those kids have learned the rudiments of Latin and are reading Shakespeare, and are now accustomed to doing up to 3 hours of homework per day. Many of them scored 99s in 3 or 4 categories, have straight As, very high MAP scores and were rejected. The drop from 25 to 2 admitted suggests only a CS CES child who got perfect scores, or close to it, had a chance. The remaining 97% would like to see the raw data. If the raw data supports admission based on merit, great. If not, the parents have the right to know. That data is also necessary to make a case for comparable instructions tracks at the home school, which the parents were told to advocate for. Knowing if your kid got a 155 vs. a 135 is helpful and important information! Be transparent, MCPS!

PP, you are the first poster who has concretely said many of the CS rejected students had 99s in 3 or 4 categories. I am not doubting it, but what do you actually know? Do you know three or four people’s scores and are assuming the rest? Have many of you shared scores with each other? Because on DCUM, some people have the impression that a lot of kids had such scores, but there is very little proof as few people have posted their scores.

Cold Spring parents are circulating a petition to obtain the raw scores data. At least six CS parents have stated their child received 99s in all 4 categories, and were rejected. Mine received three 99s and a 98. This more concrete information is just beginning to circulate, so I'm pretty sure there will be more. I'm actually fine with DC going to the home MS due to concern about the commute, but do think MCPS should release the raw data to allow parents to advocate for peer cohort grouping and critical thinking-based enriched instruction at the home schools. I also have no problem with strategies to counter the inequities in instructions at MCPS schools, and to address the achievement gap (if that's what this is), but believe MCPS needs to be absolutely transparent about admissions criteria and objectives.

I agree with all of that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

This is their new way of saying we will admit who we want and make it diverse as we want.

+1.

This also applies to the upcoming CES selection process.

[Anonymous]

Yawn!

[Anonymous]

Just got email forwarded....

From: Lang Lin
Date: February 19, 2018 at 10:09:57 PM EST
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Urgent message on Magnet program admission
Reply-To: [e-mail]

Dear GT Liaisons,



This year, as many of you are aware, MCPS conducted a pilot program changing the Eastern/Takoma Park magnet application and selection process. MCPS screened the entire 5th grade population of the down county magnet feeder schools, and identified 4000 "potentially qualified" students to test for admission to the 200 spaces in the EMS and TPMS magnet programs. (By contrast, in previous years, approximately 800 students self-selected to test for those spaces.) One of the new selection criteria evaluated whether each student has the "availability of a peer group at the local middle school," as reflected in the evaluation and test results of a much larger number of students at each middle school than was available in earlier years.



Over the last few days, it has come to our attention that, a number of students in the 99th percentile in all of the CogAT categories (Verbal, Quantitative, Nonverbal, and Composite) are being denied entrance - and are not even eligible for the wait pool -- because MCPS believes that the presence of large numbers of academic peers in their local schools will result in their needs being met at those schools. In addition, early indicators suggest that large numbers of very high performing students currently attending one of in the Centers for Enriched Studies (particularly in Barnsley CES, Chevy Chase CES, and Cold Spring CES as we learned for now) are not being offered placement in the magnets, even though those students have completed an elementary curriculum that places them well above the MCPS curriculum offered in local middle schools.



The MCCPTA Gifted Child Committee (GCC) has been working for the last few days to better understand this concern. As we navigate these issues, we encourage the following actions on the part of parents throughout the down county. Please pass this information on to parents in your communities that may be affected by these developments.



APPEAL: For students in the top percentiles, we encourage parents to consider filing an appeal to the decision, following the process outlined in the admission decision letter. We further suggest sending a copy of the appeal to both the Board of Education members ([e-mail]), Dr. Smith, and us. Since the appeal calls for "new" or unknown information, we suggest you inform the magnet coordinators that contrary to what they apparently were told, your local school does not group students by ability or offer accelerated curriculum yet. Ask that your student's need for rigor and challenge be reconsidered in light of this reality.



Please note, we do not think the appeal effort will increase the seats at the magnet, nor do we believe this effort will result in students being added to the wait pool or the class. However, we think this is a critical step to bring BOE members the awareness of the caliber of student that is being denied entrance to the magnet programs and the fallacy of the reasoning for it.



ADVOCATE: Families of all children denied entrance to the magnets that attended one of the Centers for Enriched Studies AND families of any other students that scored in the top percentiles in the CogAT and were rejected from the magnets are encouraged to make inquiries to both the MCPS central office and local home middle schools into the following questions:



1. Will the MCPS central office officially identify these highly able students and inform local middle schools that these students were denied admission because a peer group exists at the middle school?

2. How will the master schedule be used this spring at the local middle schools to ensure the "substantial cohort of highly able students" are grouped together in core courses and group projects?

3. What local school curriculum offerings are planned for the 2018-2019 school year to offer the peer group cohort the rigor and challenge they would have been offered in the magnet programs?

4. What supports and evaluations will be in place to ensure that these highly able students will be served successfully in the local middle schools?



MCCPTA GCC will continue to advocate directly on behalf of all highly able students within MCPS, raising these same concerns. We encourage our GT liaisons to share any information gathered on specific middle school plans on our GTliaison listserv so we can learn from each other and move quickly to ensure that highly able students' needs are met during the 2018-19 school year.



Kim Testa, Iris Masucci, and Lang Lin

Gifted Child Committee, MCCPTA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just got email forwarded....

From: Lang Lin
Date: February 19, 2018 at 10:09:57 PM EST
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Urgent message on Magnet program admission
Reply-To: [e-mail]

Dear GT Liaisons,



This year, as many of you are aware, MCPS conducted a pilot program changing the Eastern/Takoma Park magnet application and selection process. MCPS screened the entire 5th grade population of the down county magnet feeder schools, and identified 4000 "potentially qualified" students to test for admission to the 200 spaces in the EMS and TPMS magnet programs. (By contrast, in previous years, approximately 800 students self-selected to test for those spaces.) One of the new selection criteria evaluated whether each student has the "availability of a peer group at the local middle school," as reflected in the evaluation and test results of a much larger number of students at each middle school than was available in earlier years.



Over the last few days, it has come to our attention that, a number of students in the 99th percentile in all of the CogAT categories (Verbal, Quantitative, Nonverbal, and Composite) are being denied entrance - and are not even eligible for the wait pool -- because MCPS believes that the presence of large numbers of academic peers in their local schools will result in their needs being met at those schools. In addition, early indicators suggest that large numbers of very high performing students currently attending one of in the Centers for Enriched Studies (particularly in Barnsley CES, Chevy Chase CES, and Cold Spring CES as we learned for now) are not being offered placement in the magnets, even though those students have completed an elementary curriculum that places them well above the MCPS curriculum offered in local middle schools.



The MCCPTA Gifted Child Committee (GCC) has been working for the last few days to better understand this concern. As we navigate these issues, we encourage the following actions on the part of parents throughout the down county. Please pass this information on to parents in your communities that may be affected by these developments.



APPEAL: For students in the top percentiles, we encourage parents to consider filing an appeal to the decision, following the process outlined in the admission decision letter. We further suggest sending a copy of the appeal to both the Board of Education members ([e-mail]), Dr. Smith, and us. Since the appeal calls for "new" or unknown information, we suggest you inform the magnet coordinators that contrary to what they apparently were told, your local school does not group students by ability or offer accelerated curriculum yet. Ask that your student's need for rigor and challenge be reconsidered in light of this reality.



Please note, we do not think the appeal effort will increase the seats at the magnet, nor do we believe this effort will result in students being added to the wait pool or the class. However, we think this is a critical step to bring BOE members the awareness of the caliber of student that is being denied entrance to the magnet programs and the fallacy of the reasoning for it.



ADVOCATE: Families of all children denied entrance to the magnets that attended one of the Centers for Enriched Studies AND families of any other students that scored in the top percentiles in the CogAT and were rejected from the magnets are encouraged to make inquiries to both the MCPS central office and local home middle schools into the following questions:



1. Will the MCPS central office officially identify these highly able students and inform local middle schools that these students were denied admission because a peer group exists at the middle school?

2. How will the master schedule be used this spring at the local middle schools to ensure the "substantial cohort of highly able students" are grouped together in core courses and group projects?

3. What local school curriculum offerings are planned for the 2018-2019 school year to offer the peer group cohort the rigor and challenge they would have been offered in the magnet programs?

4. What supports and evaluations will be in place to ensure that these highly able students will be served successfully in the local middle schools?



MCCPTA GCC will continue to advocate directly on behalf of all highly able students within MCPS, raising these same concerns. We encourage our GT liaisons to share any information gathered on specific middle school plans on our GTliaison listserv so we can learn from each other and move quickly to ensure that highly able students' needs are met during the 2018-19 school year.



Kim Testa, Iris Masucci, and Lang Lin

Gifted Child Committee, MCCPTA

[Anonymous]

Are the magnets considered gifted programs? If not, I would think that like college, more than test scores would come into play.

[Anonymous]

I would think a magnet would want very bright but also intellectually curious kids who have an interest and aptitude for the particular areas of focus and can bring something unique to the table. I would hope that they aren't just looking at test scores. This isn't just a step in a path to a top college, but an opportunity to jump start future leaders in these areas. Plus, there aren't enough spots anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brochure says: "academic performance, standardized tests, local peer group, and potential for success with accelerated and enriched instruction." That says to me that grades and all those previous MAP test scores mean just as much as the official CES test.

but, but my DS scored 99s on the test and deserves a spot based only on this one test in isolation.

I can tell you at our HGC, these kids not only did pretty damn well on their manget test, they also on PARCC and MAPs. I was shocked at how high some of their scores were. And yes, they received good grades, too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are the magnets considered gifted programs? If not, I would think that like college, more than test scores would come into play.

More than test scores do come into play, which is clearly disclosed on the MCPS website, some parents believe acceptance should be based solely on the test. Some parents from certain schools are upset that there are more students this year. Last year only 800 applied whereas this year 4000+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You have a right to this sata under MPIA. Don't just circulate a petition, ask for it under MPIA, or make sure your petition references MPIA. You can ask both for CS sata and for the data of admitted students as well as the entire applicant group.

They will try to blind the data to skew it, so be aware what you're getting. Means and medians can be deceptive. You should know ranges. Plus info for applicant pool, admitted pool, waitlisted pool and CS pool.

No, under FERPA. Here is the form for a FERPA request: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/forms/detail.aspx?formID=29&formNumber=226-8&catID=2&subCatId=5

And if you want to put in an MPIA request, then you actually have to request it. A petition is not an MPIA request.