School thinks DS has ASD, dev ped does not agree. Now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the ADOS done independently. Rookie mistake not to include it in the first place. The schools are supposed to consider outside reports, but the often don't, so it may not change their stance. Iep labels are incredibly general. Focus on the supports your kid needs no matter what label it comes under.

Total blergh.

Interestingly, dev ped thinks it's not worth doing—doesn't think it will show much in his case.

PP is wrong. BTDT. ADOS is not a standard part of a neuropsych. It's a matter of professional judgement whether to do it, not a rookie mistake. You may want one anyway for the school or for your own peace of mind. If you do want an ADOS, go to David Black, he's a neuropsych specializing in autism.

[Anonymous]

Good luck OP -- we had a miserable time getting an IEP for a 1st grader actually diagnosed with ASD (aspergers at the time)! It really depends on your school's leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the ADOS done independently. Rookie mistake not to include it in the first place. The schools are supposed to consider outside reports, but the often don't, so it may not change their stance. Iep labels are incredibly general. Focus on the supports your kid needs no matter what label it comes under.

Total blergh.

Interestingly, dev ped thinks it's not worth doing—doesn't think it will show much in his case.

PP is wrong. BTDT. ADOS is not a standard part of a neuropsych. It's a matter of professional judgement whether to do it, not a rookie mistake. You may want one anyway for the school or for your own peace of mind. If you do want an ADOS, go to David Black, he's a neuropsych specializing in autism.

In our situation, the tester decided not to do the ADOS after doing a bunch of other testing and spending hours with my son. He said it wasn't even close -- my DS didn't have autism, and wasn't going to test in the autistic range on the ADOS. He'd done hundreds of ADOS testing through the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They need an assessment for the behavioral issues. Why the heavy focus on ASD if it is behavioral? If OP says it not, then the question is what is causing the behavioral issues?

And he has a diagnosis, ADHD. Which can cause a lot of behavioral issues. Seriously, doesn't everyone know this?

OP didn't specify the behaviors. There are certain behaviors associated primarily with ADHD and certain ones primarily with ASD. There's overlap but there's got to be a reason why the teacher say she suspects autism. It could practical. She knows it's easier to get an IEP and the child needs one and he meets enough of the criteria that they could make a good argument even if he doesn't actually meet the clinical criteria, or she really suspects there is something more going on than ADHD and believes the child needs more help. Either way this is a child whose needs are not being met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Kudos to you.

Pro tip for parents seeking IEPs, include the ADOS in your private testing b/c the more comprehensive the testing, the better it is to appease gate keepers:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.idea.eligibility.htm

This is from Wrights Law and based on decades of advocating for parents not just one person's opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Right. Obviously experiences differ but at our school (a DC charter--so its own LEA) you can totally get an IEP for ADHD under OHI -- and what's more, the category doesn't matter. They build the IEP based on the need, not the label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Kudos to you.

Pro tip for parents seeking IEPs, include the ADOS in your private testing b/c the more comprehensive the testing, the better it is to appease gate keepers:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.idea.eligibility.htm

This is from Wrights Law and based on decades of advocating for parents not just one person's opinion.

That answer was based on questions parents had where the schools refused to evaluate for an IEP. So naturally if the school won't even consider evaluating, you'll likely need your own evaluation. Wrightslaw correctly recommends you explain your situation to your private evaluator, so they can choose the correct tests. Nowhere does Wrightlaw tell you what specific test to get, or say it must always include an ADOS. That's a medical/educational issue, not a legal issue. One of the kids was bipolar. No reason to give an ADOS for bipolar. The results might not even be valid if mood swings are uncontrolled.

In the experience of many parents on this board and others I know of, the school did not refuse to evaluate. In my particular case, there was no question of educational impact so the school did not refuse. In other cases, it may just be that the principal understands the law better or is more supportive of special ed. In OP's case, the school is doing an evaluation, but she is concerned about wrong category leading to wrong placement.

How often do schools wrongly deny an IEP? I doubt anyone has any statistics on that. Wrightlaw probably doesn't know the answer. They only get the cases where the parents hire a lawyer, but many parents don't fight. In other cases, the parents do fight, but they settle the matter without a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Right. Obviously experiences differ but at our school (a DC charter--so its own LEA) you can totally get an IEP for ADHD under OHI -- and what's more, the category doesn't matter. They build the IEP based on the need, not the label.

Obviously your experience differs from most families who seek IEPs.

The op didn't include the ADOS as part of her neuropsch, so it's a missed opportunity to actually eliminate diagnoses from the school's perspective. The school is not required to be meticulous in assigning a label as a developmental pediatrician or a psychologist needs to be to make a diagnosis.

A 7 year old with ADHD who needs behavioral supports shares the same needs as a 7 year old kid with ASD who needs behavioral supports. The school will give the label based on the need for behavioral support. There's not a lot of nuance in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Right. Obviously experiences differ but at our school (a DC charter--so its own LEA) you can totally get an IEP for ADHD under OHI -- and what's more, the category doesn't matter. They build the IEP based on the need, not the label.

Obviously your experience differs from most families who seek IEPs.

The op didn't include the ADOS as part of her neuropsch, so it's a missed opportunity to actually eliminate diagnoses from the school's perspective. The school is not required to be meticulous in assigning a label as a developmental pediatrician or a psychologist needs to be to make a diagnosis.

A 7 year old with ADHD who needs behavioral supports shares the same needs as a 7 year old kid with ASD who needs behavioral supports. The school will give the label based on the need for behavioral support. There's not a lot of nuance in reality.

How do you know this. Do you have some statistics to show us?

[Anonymous]

The teacher should not be diagnosing or recommending a diagnosis. Parent should not have to pay extra for a rule out when school and private evaluation need to look at the behavioral issues and where they are coming from, including mental health issues or poor school/classroom fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The teacher should not be diagnosing or recommending a diagnosis. Parent should not have to pay extra for a rule out when school and private evaluation need to look at the behavioral issues and where they are coming from, including mental health issues or poor school/classroom fit.

Exactly. teacher can suggest there are issues that need an evaluation, but should not suggest autism. Let actual professionals do a differential diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher should not be diagnosing or recommending a diagnosis. Parent should not have to pay extra for a rule out when school and private evaluation need to look at the behavioral issues and where they are coming from, including mental health issues or poor school/classroom fit.

Exactly. teacher can suggest there are issues that need an evaluation, but should not suggest autism. Let actual professionals do a differential diagnosis.

The teacher is not. She's filling out the GARs. That's part of the school's evaluation and parents will fill out this checklist too. The school will say they don't match and suggest the autism label. So op can accept it or not. That's the way it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher should not be diagnosing or recommending a diagnosis. Parent should not have to pay extra for a rule out when school and private evaluation need to look at the behavioral issues and where they are coming from, including mental health issues or poor school/classroom fit.

Exactly. teacher can suggest there are issues that need an evaluation, but should not suggest autism. Let actual professionals do a differential diagnosis.

The teacher is not. She's filling out the GARs. That's part of the school's evaluation and parents will fill out this checklist too. The school will say they don't match and suggest the autism label. So op can accept it or not. That's the way it works.

If the GARS don't match, then no autism. Symptoms have to show up in multiple contexts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think the op is facing an uphill battle with the school to go from a 504 to an iep and not get an autism designation.

This kid has behavioral issues the school is following their usual playbook.

It just doesn't make any sense. I know plenty of kids who have IEPs because of ADHD. Typically, though, if the school is pushing ASD, they have an ulterior motive. It's not some sort of great holistic journey where they are trying to get the optimal setting for your child. Instead, checking that autism box does something for THEM. Maybe they have an opening in an autism classroom (that's what our story was).

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter what the diagnosis actually is to the SCHOOL. They're not diagnosing they're designating.

You can get an iep for ADHD as OHI, but it will be a had sell to get one for a 7 year old with behavioral issues. That's just the way it is.

Maybe this is the way it was in your experience but it isn't for many others and there is no legal reason it should be.

Right. Obviously experiences differ but at our school (a DC charter--so its own LEA) you can totally get an IEP for ADHD under OHI -- and what's more, the category doesn't matter. They build the IEP based on the need, not the label.

Obviously your experience differs from most families who seek IEPs.

The op didn't include the ADOS as part of her neuropsch, so it's a missed opportunity to actually eliminate diagnoses from the school's perspective. The school is not required to be meticulous in assigning a label as a developmental pediatrician or a psychologist needs to be to make a diagnosis.

A 7 year old with ADHD who needs behavioral supports shares the same needs as a 7 year old kid with ASD who needs behavioral supports. The school will give the label based on the need for behavioral support. There's not a lot of nuance in reality.

Obviously? What are the stats on that? Where is the evidence? My point is that things differ from school to school and system to system.

But I agree with the rest of what you say anyway. It can't hurt to fill out the GARS as the school is requesting or to do th ADOS. More info is better for these complex kids.