why do people prefer AP schools to IB?

[Anonymous]

I had two kids one of whom attended an IB school and the other AP pupil placed.

I think some of the aspects of the IB program, like the theory of knowledge course and community action project, were unique and really interesting. DD seemed to enjoy it and I think her school (Robinson) has a high diploma completion rate. She's at UVA and doing well. She has said her IB courses made the writing and critical thinking demands of college fairly easy. She's a liberal arts/social science major.

My AP kid completed MANY AP courses at Woodson. He's at Tech and while he got plenty of credit, he did re-do some courses in the sciences because he didn't feel like he had the foundation to do well in the upper level engineering courses. So, while there are many more AP science choices, I don't know if it's a 100 percent good idea to just take the credit and accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

So what this tells me is that FCPS misunderstood how to stem "white flight." It's not an argument about IB vs. AP, but rather, how do you keep the kids who prop up the test score at their zoned school, or even encourage higher-scoring kids to attend an OOB school? Answer: by giving them a highly selective program. It doesn't matter if it's AP or IB. It just matters that it's rigorous and acceptance is made difficult.

And, this is what happened. It didn't attract enough people at South Lakes, so the PTA (led by the IB parents with the assistance of Stu Gibson) led a boundary change initiative. If anyone recalls, it was South Lakes PTA which objected to the original proposal because it didn't include affluent kids.

These parents are the ones who claim to be so understanding and liberal--and, yet, their kids are pretty much segregated within the school. Just like the AAP programs. The AAP programs were expanded so that more AA kids would get in--but, the result was that the program expanded so much that it is no longer what it was originally. And, the proportion of AA and Hispanic kids is no higher.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with any AP school in FCPS that had to be shored up the way that FCPS expanded the South Lakes boundaries to revive that struggling school and its IB program.

So are you saying that if FCPS had instead used AP for all schools that socioeconomic segregation would not have increased during this time period? Or are you saying that you don't want the county in the business of attempting to address socioeconomic segregation with your tax dollars? Please clarify.

Read the words. I said I'm not aware of any local AP high school where the parents asked for a concerted "rescue effort," such as occurred a while back at South Lakes, an IB school. Against the wishes of parents at three AP high schools - Oakton, Westfield, and Madison - neighborhoods were moved to South Lakes to address the school's declining enrollment and bolster the IB program.

If you want to argue South Lakes would have been in the same boat had it been AP, go ahead. But you won't be able to find an AP school in FCPS that requested a similar intervention.

I'm not in FCPS, so I don't know and I'm asking you. Do YOU think South Lakes would have been in the same situation if it had been AP? Are you mad that your house got rezoned to South Lakes, or mad that your house was rezoned to an IB school?

Different PP, but no, I don't think South Lakes would need to be bolstered if it had AP. It's a good location and with the metro coming, there would not have been a need. People don't have much of an issue with South Lakes, Robinson, or Marshall's IB program like they do with all the IB schools in the eastern portion of the county. There are just too many IB schools grouped in one area. It worked better functioning like a magnet program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any real examples of college or university preference for AP or IB? We went through the application process last year and found no preference for one over the other with the dramatic exception of Bryn Mawr which offered a semester of credit to IB diploma recipients with certain scores.

i Have talked to admissions at a few colleges and all of them prefer IB to AP, they feel they make more well rounded students and that they have more to offer in the classroom. We were trying to decide what route to take with our child and were looking for the best information. I was told that professors can tell which kids were IB in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't understand why one is preferable to the other.... is there some major difference academically?

As PPs have noted, AP is more "a la carte" and, in FCPS at least, tends to be the college-prep curriculum in most of the top schools.

Conversely, FCPS put IB in a number of struggling schools in the late 1990s and early 2000s with the thought that it would stem white flight by creating "school-within-a-school" environments. It hasn't worked out that way - the poor schools with IB, like Lee, Mount Vernon, and Stuart, are generally considered worse than they were 15-20 years ago.

One exception to the overall trend of installing IB at the lower-ranked schools was Woodson, which FCPS tried to convert from AP to IB years ago. The parents revolted and AP was restored to the school. In addition, because of the pupil placement policies in FCPS, parents who want their kids to attend higher SES schools often can pupil place their kids out of an IB school to a nearby AP school, space permitting. As a result, schools like Lee end up losing many top students to AP schools like West Springfield and Lake Braddock.

IB has its local HQ in Bethesda, and every IB school has a dedicated "IB Coordinator" responsible for promoting IB. They monitor these threads closely, and try to convince people that IB is superior to AP. However, as the title of your thread acknowledges, most people prefer AP schools to IB. We personally have been in both and prefer the AP environment. Most of the students take plenty of AP courses, and there is no divide similar to what we found at the IB school between the IB diploma candidates and, well, everyone else.

It takes a lot more to stem white flight than the existence of a school-within-a-school program. An IB program in a poor neighborhood won't automatically drive up real estate prices nor would it make it more attractive if no other factors are present.

Marshall HS has IB and its performance has improved dramatically vs. where it was 20 years ago. Is it BECAUSE of IB? I don't think so. Too many other factors have converged to improve demographics and therefore, performance. It wasn't IB that did it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Racism.

Exactly.

And some fascism and sexism and ageism and classism too.

It truly says a lot about you, OP, that you are even considering doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any real examples of college or university preference for AP or IB? We went through the application process last year and found no preference for one over the other with the dramatic exception of Bryn Mawr which offered a semester of credit to IB diploma recipients with certain scores.

i Have talked to admissions at a few colleges and all of them prefer IB to AP, they feel they make more well rounded students and that they have more to offer in the classroom. We were trying to decide what route to take with our child and were looking for the best information. I was told that professors can tell which kids were IB in the classroom.

Sure you did. It wasn't any more convincing the last time you posted this run-on nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So what this tells me is that FCPS misunderstood how to stem "white flight." It's not an argument about IB vs. AP, but rather, how do you keep the kids who prop up the test score at their zoned school, or even encourage higher-scoring kids to attend an OOB school? Answer: by giving them a highly selective program. It doesn't matter if it's AP or IB. It just matters that it's rigorous and acceptance is made difficult.

And, this is what happened. It didn't attract enough people at South Lakes, so the PTA (led by the IB parents with the assistance of Stu Gibson) led a boundary change initiative. If anyone recalls, it was South Lakes PTA which objected to the original proposal because it didn't include affluent kids.

These parents are the ones who claim to be so understanding and liberal--and, yet, their kids are pretty much segregated within the school. Just like the AAP programs. The AAP programs were expanded so that more AA kids would get in--but, the result was that the program expanded so much that it is no longer what it was originally. And, the proportion of AA and Hispanic kids is no higher.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with any AP school in FCPS that had to be shored up the way that FCPS expanded the South Lakes boundaries to revive that struggling school and its IB program.

So are you saying that if FCPS had instead used AP for all schools that socioeconomic segregation would not have increased during this time period? Or are you saying that you don't want the county in the business of attempting to address socioeconomic segregation with your tax dollars? Please clarify.

Read the words. I said I'm not aware of any local AP high school where the parents asked for a concerted "rescue effort," such as occurred a while back at South Lakes, an IB school. Against the wishes of parents at three AP high schools - Oakton, Westfield, and Madison - neighborhoods were moved to South Lakes to address the school's declining enrollment and bolster the IB program.

If you want to argue South Lakes would have been in the same boat had it been AP, go ahead. But you won't be able to find an AP school in FCPS that requested a similar intervention.

I'm not in FCPS, so I don't know and I'm asking you. Do YOU think South Lakes would have been in the same situation if it had been AP? Are you mad that your house got rezoned to South Lakes, or mad that your house was rezoned to an IB school?

Different PP, but no, I don't think South Lakes would need to be bolstered if it had AP. It's a good location and with the metro coming, there would not have been a need. People don't have much of an issue with South Lakes, Robinson, or Marshall's IB program like they do with all the IB schools in the eastern portion of the county. There are just too many IB schools grouped in one area. It worked better functioning like a magnet program.

South Lakes wasn't competing with any other IB schools in that part of the county to get pupil placements from the nearby AP schools - western parts of Langley and Madison, Oakton, Chantilly, Herndon, Westfield - and still it had dwindled to below 1400 students and required a major redistricting to make the school and IB program more attractive.

As you note, however, the situation is far worse in the eastern part of the county, where Annandale, Edison, Lee, Mount Vernon and Stuart all chase after the same limited pool of students interested in IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Racism.

Exactly.

And some fascism and sexism and ageism and classism too.

It truly says a lot about you, OP, that you are even considering doing this.

What is OP considering? It sounded like she just wanted to know why people prefer AP schools to IB schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Racism.

Exactly.

And some fascism and sexism and ageism and classism too.

It truly says a lot about you, OP, that you are even considering doing this.

What is OP considering? It sounded like she just wanted to know why people prefer AP schools to IB schools.

Sorry the sarcasm didn't travel well...I was just reacting to the stupidity of the Racism previous comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Racism.

Exactly.

And some fascism and sexism and ageism and classism too.

It truly says a lot about you, OP, that you are even considering doing this.

What is OP considering? It sounded like she just wanted to know why people prefer AP schools to IB schools.

Sorry the sarcasm didn't travel well...I was just reacting to the stupidity of the Racism previous comment.

OK, the second line threw me! Clearly a real "global citizen" would pick up on the satire...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any real examples of college or university preference for AP or IB? We went through the application process last year and found no preference for one over the other with the dramatic exception of Bryn Mawr which offered a semester of credit to IB diploma recipients with certain scores.

i Have talked to admissions at a few colleges and all of them prefer IB to AP, they feel they make more well rounded students and that they have more to offer in the classroom. We were trying to decide what route to take with our child and were looking for the best information. I was told that professors can tell which kids were IB in the classroom.

Sure you did. It wasn't any more convincing the last time you posted this run-on nonsense.

So angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any real examples of college or university preference for AP or IB? We went through the application process last year and found no preference for one over the other with the dramatic exception of Bryn Mawr which offered a semester of credit to IB diploma recipients with certain scores.

i Have talked to admissions at a few colleges and all of them prefer IB to AP, they feel they make more well rounded students and that they have more to offer in the classroom. We were trying to decide what route to take with our child and were looking for the best information. I was told that professors can tell which kids were IB in the classroom.

Sure you did. It wasn't any more convincing the last time you posted this run-on nonsense.

So angry.

You're just so...transparent.

[Anonymous]

Most parents, being rational decision-makers, prefer AP for their students because it's easier to hedge your bets and still be very competitive when it comes to college admissions. IB is much more "all-in," when it comes to the IB diploma program, and the attrition rate is quite high. And then those kids are left non-diploma candidates at IB schools, and they are at a disadvantage compared to both IB diploma students at their own schools and the students taking a decent number of AP courses at AP schools.

That may not be fair, but that's the way it is, and it's one (not the only) reason the AP schools continue to have much larger cohorts of bright kids.

[Anonymous]

Re: post about Tech student above-- A friend's DC had heaps of AP credits and while she got out of some classes at Tech with those credits, in several she was told she would have to take Tech's version anyway. Friend said they were told that Tech wanted to be sure students had the particular foundation the departments there wanted, taught in the way the departments wanted. I offer that as just what it is--one student's experience with one college. But it does show that there is not a clear "take one AP course, get out of one college class in the equivalent course" deal. Each college is going to make its own choices and some kids and parents may be surprised to find their focus on AP as a college-credits plan isn't as direct as they thought. That's why, whatever the program, AP or IB, focusing on learning and being ready for college level work seems like a wiser way to approach things. Not dissing AP here, just saying some people look at it as a way to power through college faster and not as a way to learn skills to use in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most parents, being rational decision-makers, prefer AP for their students because it's easier to hedge your bets and still be very competitive when it comes to college admissions. IB is much more "all-in," when it comes to the IB diploma program, and the attrition rate is quite high. And then those kids are left non-diploma candidates at IB schools, and they are at a disadvantage compared to both IB diploma students at their own schools and the students taking a decent number of AP courses at AP schools.

That may not be fair, but that's the way it is, and it's one (not the only) reason the AP schools continue to have much larger cohorts of bright kids.

That is one reason why many universities prefer IB over AP. IB diplomas are not a dime a dozen.