Time for Charter Schools?

[Anonymous]

15:31 and 23:06 sound like the same (crazy) poster.

1) Telling people to send their kids to private schools while b*tching at them for wanting to see Charter schools open is really weird. Not everyone can afford private schools. Charter schools are for everyone--private schools are for people with means. Why would you see it preferable to urge parents to leave the system entirely and go private (advice they can't even afford) but completely freak out at the idea of Charter schools?

2) Charter schools are for everyone. No one is getting "left behind" except people who feel APS is a better fit for their child. If anything your advice that parents who are concerned about the problems in APS go private is an option that will leave everyone who doesn't make money out of the equation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As soon as charters are involved, there is no central authority on the school district's budget and no elected official that oversees all of the schools budget and program wise.

And right now we have central authority (APS School Board) and how's that going?

We have transparency and how's that helping anyone whose child is going to end up without a permanent seat, doing shift scheduling?

And we have elected officials "overseeing" the budget and programs but without any responsibility to the realities of over capacity (shrinking outdoor space for our kids to run around outside, more and more kids in trailers, more and more kids lost in the system, larger classrooms with more electronics instead of education)?

So honestly I don't have a problem TRYING to inject some new ideas into a system that is paralyzed, possibly because of the demands of transparency and centralized authority.

Agreed. Time to try something new.

[Anonymous]

This whole discussion makes no sense. No APS school is failing. They are all doing very well. No problem with the public schools.

[Anonymous]

Parents unhappy = something wrong

inability to understand this = source of the problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents unhappy = something wrong

inability to understand this = source of the problem

7:22. APS is not a private school that caters to one type of instruction/religion/ideology. It would be impossible to please everyone in every way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents unhappy = something wrong

inability to understand this = source of the problem

Well, if the problem with APS is as you say, then obviously charters will be the solution...

More seriously, are you hoping for a charter fourth high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15:31 and 23:06 sound like the same (crazy) poster.

1) Telling people to send their kids to private schools while b*tching at them for wanting to see Charter schools open is really weird. Not everyone can afford private schools. Charter schools are for everyone--private schools are for people with means. Why would you see it preferable to urge parents to leave the system entirely and go private (advice they can't even afford) but completely freak out at the idea of Charter schools?

2) Charter schools are for everyone. No one is getting "left behind" except people who feel APS is a better fit for their child. If anything your advice that parents who are concerned about the problems in APS go private is an option that will leave everyone who doesn't make money out of the equation.

What a fine example of concern trolling. I don't believe for one hot minute that your primary concern is students from families of lower means. Yeah right. Charters are an unmitigated disaster for poor students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15:31 and 23:06 sound like the same (crazy) poster.

1) Telling people to send their kids to private schools while b*tching at them for wanting to see Charter schools open is really weird. Not everyone can afford private schools. Charter schools are for everyone--private schools are for people with means. Why would you see it preferable to urge parents to leave the system entirely and go private (advice they can't even afford) but completely freak out at the idea of Charter schools?

2) Charter schools are for everyone. No one is getting "left behind" except people who feel APS is a better fit for their child. If anything your advice that parents who are concerned about the problems in APS go private is an option that will leave everyone who doesn't make money out of the equation.

I sound like the same poster because I am. Crazy? Well, I think it's "crazy" to talk about charters because class size is too large, or the schools are too segregated. I can't see how charters do anything but exacerbate both of those issues for the majority, and disproportionately negatively affect the most vulnerable students.

I suspect that the parent(s) complaining in this thread could afford private (parochial at least). Let's face it: DCUM isn't exactly a hotbed of the underprivileged. Are you one of the poster who feel middle class at $300,000/year?

I also truly believe that the poster(s) to whom I was responding have unrealistic expectations of public education and will not be happy until they are in a private school, hence the recommendation. Public schools serve the majority, and serve them well. Class sizes in APS are much smaller than other neighboring school systems, and smaller still if you're willing to send your child to a Title 1 school. Charter schools won't solve the capacity crisis. If money is diverted to charter schools, that's less money for new buildings/land for the rest of the system. This is a ridiculous proposition to solve a serious problem. I'm not convinced at all that charters would have any (positive) effect on crowding. They might be smaller, like ATS and HB, but how is that a positive for the majority of students in APS? Might as well create more smaller public lottery option schools rather than charters if this is your only issue.

The other poster to whom I am responding to seek private seems to be uncomfortable with their neighborhood school because of the demographics, not the teachers, the administration, the curriculum, nor the facilities. I recommended that they first give their neighborhood school a chance, and if that doesn't work out, go private. Because I don't think that a public school system should make self-segregation any easier for anyone. If you want your child to be in a classroom full of other children of a similar socioeconomic background, then you should use your own money to seek out that environment. Taxpayers should not be forced to help you do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents unhappy = something wrong

inability to understand this = source of the problem

Well, if the problem with APS is as you say, then obviously charters will be the solution...

More seriously, are you hoping for a charter fourth high school?

I am not the first poster quoted her, so NP here.

YES, I would welcome seeing some Charter schools come to the county to relieve the projected collision between the APS's "hybrid" option and the massive increases in MS and HS students in the county. IMO the Charters don't need to be "comprehensive" (which I understand to mean sports programs and fields) but they need to offer smaller more personalized attention and alternatives to large shift the growth in the three existing comprehensive HS. I am fine with Charter schools that specialize, such as schools that specialize in a more "prep school" environment (Washington Latin as an example), which could be seen as a continuation of the ATS model but in upper grades; or an experiential curriculum; or a Music/Performing Arts campus; etc.

Unhappy parents in APS are worried about class size, concerned that shift scheduling will become a reality if the county doesn't look at starting new environments, and are worried that more and more parents will self-select to send their kids to private schools rather than the overly large APS comprehensive schools. BTW: this last concern will certainly lead to massive polarization of wealth, as those families of means flee the public schools. While a Charter is unlikely to become a fourth comprehensive, more alternatives could very well address a lot of these unhappy parents' concerns (and I count myself as one of those unhappy Arlington parents.)

The posters who are concerned that charter schools will be an "unmitigated disaster" for APS seem out of touch. In my neighborhood, parents are talking about keeping their kids in APS through elementary years but then looking at privates. How will that exodus of support into private schools help APS solve socioeconomic diversity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents unhappy = something wrong

inability to understand this = source of the problem

Well, if the problem with APS is as you say, then obviously charters will be the solution...

More seriously, are you hoping for a charter fourth high school?

I am not the first poster quoted her, so NP here.

YES, I would welcome seeing some Charter schools come to the county to relieve the projected collision between the APS's "hybrid" option and the massive increases in MS and HS students in the county. IMO the Charters don't need to be "comprehensive" (which I understand to mean sports programs and fields) but they need to offer smaller more personalized attention and alternatives to large shift the growth in the three existing comprehensive HS. I am fine with Charter schools that specialize, such as schools that specialize in a more "prep school" environment (Washington Latin as an example), which could be seen as a continuation of the ATS model but in upper grades; or an experiential curriculum; or a Music/Performing Arts campus; etc.

Unhappy parents in APS are worried about class size, concerned that shift scheduling will become a reality if the county doesn't look at starting new environments, and are worried that more and more parents will self-select to send their kids to private schools rather than the overly large APS comprehensive schools. BTW: this last concern will certainly lead to massive polarization of wealth, as those families of means flee the public schools. While a Charter is unlikely to become a fourth comprehensive, more alternatives could very well address a lot of these unhappy parents' concerns (and I count myself as one of those unhappy Arlington parents.)

The posters who are concerned that charter schools will be an "unmitigated disaster" for APS seem out of touch. In my neighborhood, parents are talking about keeping their kids in APS through elementary years but then looking at privates. How will that exodus of support into private schools help APS solve socioeconomic diversity?

So basically you are pro segregation by wealth and academic level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: APS has so many "choice" schools that it seems impossible to believe that parents are actually looking for more choice in educational models. If they are looking for less class segregation, that is a discussion with your supervisors regarding zoning. Any charter or choice school will take away bussing which does not end up helping the poor who need the bussing. Plus as it is, the poor in APS already has a choice of many schools to get in a lottery for. They aren't constrained to one school boundary. One of the reasons APS is hurting a bit is because of all the choice schools they have. If they were to add charters, it would just dilute resources further. APS is the strongest school system in Virginia. Outside of class segregation, what else do you want them to do? Their schools are doing well, so it can't be a complaint about the teaching. They cannot fix the segregation issue more than they already have with lotteries or through more boundary shifts. The only way Arlington can integrate better class wise is to put more apartments up north and less down south and provide more opportunities for the poor in the county to attend choice magnet schools. Nothing that needs to involve charter schools.

Is this poster for real?

In one different thread a poster said s/he refuses to call them "choice" schools but instead they are "chance" schools because the demand to get into these programs vastly exceeds the number of slots available. Take HB Woodlawn: 4% of the applicant pool got a slot.

Yes, please please let's see some charter schools come to APS. Let's stop with "chance" schools and produce meaningful choice schools in APS.[/b]

On the one hand poster quoted above says APS is the "strongest school system in Virginia" and in another breath says APS is "hurting a bit is because of all the choice schools they have." I'd say APS is more than "hurting a bit." There are various threads about school performance. If you look at SOL ranking, APS is not competitive with its peers.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/662273.page#11382855

Specifically that post includes this list.

A quick compilation of SOLs in five key subject areas for all students at some better known area NoVa high schools:

1. Langley
2. West Springfield
3. McLean
4. Marshall
5. Woodson
6. George Mason
7. Madison/Oakton (tie)
9. Robinson
10. Yorktown
11. Chantilly
12. Centreville
13. Lake Braddock
14. Washington-Lee
15. South Lakes

[Anonymous]

David Osborne of the Progressive Policy Institute is speaking on Charter Schools on CSPAN2 tomorrow (Sat. 9/16) at 10:00a.m on the After Words program. He has a new book and offers his outlook on the future of public education in his book, Reinventing America’s Schools. He is interviewed by Chester Finn.

I heard him on WGBH - he is informed, cogent, thoughtful and persuasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:David Osborne of the Progressive Policy Institute is speaking on Charter Schools on CSPAN2 tomorrow (Sat. 9/16) at 10:00a.m on the After Words program. He has a new book and offers his outlook on the future of public education in his book, Reinventing America’s Schools. He is interviewed by Chester Finn.

I heard him on WGBH - he is informed, cogent, thoughtful and persuasive.

No thanks, we're good.

[Anonymous]

Charter schools are also "chance" just like any other private school. They would be by lottery unless unfilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:David Osborne of the Progressive Policy Institute is speaking on Charter Schools on CSPAN2 tomorrow (Sat. 9/16) at 10:00a.m on the After Words program. He has a new book and offers his outlook on the future of public education in his book, Reinventing America’s Schools. He is interviewed by Chester Finn.

I heard him on WGBH - he is informed, cogent, thoughtful and persuasive.

No thanks, we're good.

Ha! Wouldn't want to learn anything...